Mountain Biking Mountain biking is one of the fastest growing sports in the world. Check out this forum to discuss the latest tips, tricks, gear and equipment in the world of mountain biking.

Headset search

Old 03-21-07, 04:28 PM
  #1  
apclassic9
Caustic Soccer Mom
Thread Starter
 
apclassic9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Millstone WV
Posts: 1,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Headset search

Salsa needs a standard headset that will only take up (top & bottom) 15mm - that's all the clearance he has - I've looked around, but I just thought I'd ask before he starts grinding the head tube down. Anybody?
__________________
As with mud, life, too, slides by.
apclassic9 is offline  
Old 03-21-07, 04:33 PM
  #2  
misterC
That's how I roll..
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by apclassic9
before he starts grinding the head tube down.
You're joking right.
misterC is offline  
Old 03-21-07, 04:44 PM
  #3  
apclassic9
Caustic Soccer Mom
Thread Starter
 
apclassic9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Millstone WV
Posts: 1,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
uh, no.
__________________
As with mud, life, too, slides by.
apclassic9 is offline  
Old 03-21-07, 05:08 PM
  #4  
Gravity Worx
Parts Guy
 
Gravity Worx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Boise, ID USA
Posts: 227

Bikes: several

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
15mm is rough. Everything I've got is quite a bit taller than that.
There is a way to do this though and keep it clean.
Use a facing tool and cut it down VERY SLOWLY just until you have the clearance.
I did this for 3" tire clearance on a DH bike some years ago.
Don't forget to leave a little room for when going over a bump and the bottom of the tire compressing.
The top of the tire expands a little when this happens.
Also remember tha cutting the top of the steer tube rakes out your head angle a little and cutting the bottom does not.
Gravity Worx is offline  
Old 03-21-07, 05:28 PM
  #5  
apclassic9
Caustic Soccer Mom
Thread Starter
 
apclassic9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Millstone WV
Posts: 1,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Here's the application: Large size Salsa Moto Rapido frame. Trying to fit a Carbon Lefty Speed onto it with a Project 321 adapter. The Carbon lefties have fixed clamps, unlike at Al ones, which are adjustable. After all is said & done, there is only 15 mm for the headset to fit with the head tube/adapter with the fixed lefty clamps.

The bottom of the head tube looks like it has about 2 mm clearance before you get into the weld area.

Someone posted a disappeared post about a road Orbit Z headset, which we're checking out - what's the dif between a headset for a road vs mountain?
__________________
As with mud, life, too, slides by.
apclassic9 is offline  
Old 03-21-07, 05:39 PM
  #6  
FreeRidin'
Senior Member
 
FreeRidin''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Boulderado
Posts: 1,474

Bikes: Intense SS, Old spesh P series, ski/snow bike, fixie conversion

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
My friend has a Cane Creek Double Xc Flush that has a total stack height of 14._ something...but that's a 1.5 headset. There has to be something out there, so don't start the destruction just yet.
FreeRidin' is offline  
Old 03-21-07, 05:53 PM
  #7  
apclassic9
Caustic Soccer Mom
Thread Starter
 
apclassic9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Millstone WV
Posts: 1,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
That would be perfect, if it weren't for the 1.5 part! Looking for exactly that in a 1 1/8, standard.
__________________
As with mud, life, too, slides by.
apclassic9 is offline  
Old 03-21-07, 05:59 PM
  #8  
cryptid01
one less horse
 
cryptid01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: East Jesus NY
Posts: 5,600

Bikes: are better than yours

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Gravity Worx
Also remember tha cutting the top of the steer tube rakes out your head angle a little and cutting the bottom does not.
How exactly does steerer tube length affect head angle?
cryptid01 is offline  
Old 03-21-07, 06:30 PM
  #9  
apclassic9
Caustic Soccer Mom
Thread Starter
 
apclassic9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Millstone WV
Posts: 1,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Oh, that was good, Pete. You know I love to hate you.
__________________
As with mud, life, too, slides by.
apclassic9 is offline  
Old 03-21-07, 09:18 PM
  #10  
ed 
.
 
ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Summit of Lee
Posts: 10,939

Bikes: Hecklah

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Facing the bottom may cause it to be slightly steeper, but facing the top won't do a thing to the geo.

I'd sell that fork and buy something that fits before I hacked into the head tube. That's just a little looney.

I've been looking like mad and can't find anything that low. Just 27mm.

Sell the lefty and buy the boy a float.
ed is offline  
Old 03-21-07, 09:20 PM
  #11  
apclassic9
Caustic Soccer Mom
Thread Starter
 
apclassic9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Millstone WV
Posts: 1,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Actually, that would be my solution - wouldn't even have to buy a fork, he's got a nice one... but then, we are not 15 year olds, are we?
__________________
As with mud, life, too, slides by.
apclassic9 is offline  
Old 03-21-07, 09:31 PM
  #12  
Gravity Worx
Parts Guy
 
Gravity Worx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Boise, ID USA
Posts: 227

Bikes: several

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by gastro
How exactly does steerer tube length affect head angle?

That was a typo.
It should have said head tube.
Cutting the top allows the frame to rise slightly on the steer tube making a slightly more slack head angle, cutting the bottom only makes more tire or headset stack clearance.
At least when making room for large tire with a dual triple clamp fork it allowed the frame head tube to sit higher in the triple clamps, Should have the same effect with their single.

Pete, Keep your tube steak to your self. I don't go that way. I'm not even flattered by the offer.
Gravity Worx is offline  
Old 03-21-07, 09:36 PM
  #13  
ed 
.
 
ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Summit of Lee
Posts: 10,939

Bikes: Hecklah

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Gravity Worx
Cutting the top allows the frame to rise slightly on the steer tube making a slightly more slack head angle,
I'm still perplexed by this...umm...huh?
ed is offline  
Old 03-21-07, 09:38 PM
  #14  
ed 
.
 
ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Summit of Lee
Posts: 10,939

Bikes: Hecklah

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The only way you're going to get the bike to ride higher in the front that way is to face the top of the head tube and then add some material to the bottom. Otherwise you're just going to make the stem sit lower which doesn't change the angle. Why is this so hard to envision?

Either way it's a risky idea. Don't take material away from the frame. Get a fork that fits.
ed is offline  
Old 03-21-07, 09:43 PM
  #15  
ed 
.
 
ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Summit of Lee
Posts: 10,939

Bikes: Hecklah

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by apclassic9
Someone posted a disappeared post about a road Orbit Z headset, which we're checking out - what's the dif between a headset for a road vs mountain?
The Orbit Z won't work. That's what I use on my XLT. It's an Internal Cup Type headset like the Cane Creek Zero Stack. It's kinda like an "Integrated" headset except it comes with cups that press in. They are 44.0mm diameter which is larger than the std headset diameter. This way the bearings fit down in the head tube instead of just the cups. The Orbit Z cups won't fit in the head tube on a standard setup. It's really kinda like a cross between a standard headset and an Internal headset. The total Integrated design doesn't have removeable cups...the cartridge bearings just rest right in the head tube. If they ever get loose and start to waller out the head tube...you're screwed. At least with the Zero Stack type...there's a cup to press in and replace if need be.

Either way, I think you're hosed, maam.

What kind of frame is it...I forget?
ed is offline  
Old 03-21-07, 10:01 PM
  #16  
Gravity Worx
Parts Guy
 
Gravity Worx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Boise, ID USA
Posts: 227

Bikes: several

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
You are moving the frame up on the steerER tube and allowing the lower triple clamp to come up with it.
It has the same effect as raising the triple clamps on the fork tubes. Head angle gets altered just a little that way.
Next time think things through before insulting people, you just might learn something.

And hey Pete,
I'd bet you are not nearly such a jerk when you can't hide behing your key board, Tough Guy.
If you want to attack me for my spelling then so be it. I don't really care as I just considder the source and actually find some amusement in throwing it back at you. Personally I think you have some issues your self and put other people down in a feeble effort to somehow make your self feel better about your pathetic exhistance.
However, you really should learn to not hi-jack other peoples threads.

Now back to the hunt for the headset.

Last edited by Gravity Worx; 03-21-07 at 10:09 PM.
Gravity Worx is offline  
Old 03-21-07, 10:09 PM
  #17  
Siu Blue Wind
BACK2ME
 
Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,787
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1525 Post(s)
Liked 22 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by Gravity Worx
Also remember tha cutting the top of the steer tube rakes out your head angle a little and cutting the bottom does not.
Originally Posted by Gravity Worx
That was a typo.
It should have said head tube.
Originally Posted by Pete Fagerlin
Could it be that you don't know what you're talking (writing) about? Plus, I would never make such an offer to anyone who can't fathom the difference between a "steer tube" and a "steerer tube."

GOOD LORD!! People make mistakes, my goodness!! Why humiliate someone unecessarily? At least Gravity Worx was human enough to admit mistakes.
__________________
"Foolish, selfish people are always thinking of themselves and the result is always negative. Wise persons think of others, helping them as much as they can and the result is happiness. Love and compassion are beneficial both to you and others. Through your kindness to others, your mind and heart will open to peace. " ~ Dalai Lama

Originally Posted by making View Post
Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.
Siu Blue Wind is offline  
Old 03-21-07, 10:17 PM
  #18  
ed 
.
 
ed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Summit of Lee
Posts: 10,939

Bikes: Hecklah

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
[QUOTE=Gravity Worx][QUOTE]

Edit: Siu's right...I removed my spelling jab.

I am still shocked by the theory that you can remove some material from the top of the head tube to slacken the geometry. Just think about it for a second. (I'm not insulting you as you stated earlier)

If you remove some material from the top of the head tube...you lower the stem. If you take that material and superglue it to the underside...well then ya got your change in angles.

The underside of the head tube rests on the fork. If you want to slacken the head angle you must make the front of the frame ride higher ie...add some material.(most would buy a taller fork) Now I don't think it's possible to do the superglue trick but what you're saying is downright amusing.

Don't mean to offend you...I just don't see why you can't get it. Can you draw a picture for me and post it?
ed is offline  
Old 03-21-07, 10:22 PM
  #19  
Gravity Worx
Parts Guy
 
Gravity Worx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Boise, ID USA
Posts: 227

Bikes: several

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Gravity Worx
At least when making room for large tire with a dual triple clamp fork it allowed the frame head tube to sit higher in the triple clamps, Should have the same effect with their single.

Originally Posted by chelboed
The only way you're going to get the bike to ride higher in the front that way is to face the top of the head tube and then add some material to the bottom. Otherwise you're just going to make the stem sit lower which doesn't change the angle. Why is this so hard to envision?
True, with out the upper part of the fork tubes on the double triple clamps that I ride on, there is nothing to move the head tube up on.
With the double triple clamps, when you cut the top of the head tube, you can move the front of the frame up that much and move the lower triple clamp up with it because you are putting the 2 triple clamps closer together and moving everything closer to the upper triple clamp. (frame goes up)

When cutting the bottom of the head tube, the frame is not moved closer to the upper triple clamp and thus, no head angle change. (frame does not go up)

It's been a long day and I didn't think about the single triple clamp forks not having the upper part of the fork tubes to move up on.
I haven't ridden a single triple clamp bike in years. Only the bigger bikes.

Last edited by Gravity Worx; 03-21-07 at 10:44 PM.
Gravity Worx is offline  
Old 03-21-07, 10:23 PM
  #20  
Siu Blue Wind
BACK2ME
 
Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,787
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1525 Post(s)
Liked 22 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by Pete Fagerlin
This discussion is about the affect on steerer tube length upon head angle. You don't understand the discussion and are focusing on the tangential silliness of the typos.

Time to go back to Foo and snuggle with the other sheeple?

Oh of course I don't understand the discussion but I'm learning from people like you! (Thanks by the way) But all I'm saying is he made a mistake, pointed it out and is trying to get back on track.

I'd like to stay here for a while so I can actually learn about bikes. Foo is fun but this is where I am actually gaining some knowledge.
__________________
"Foolish, selfish people are always thinking of themselves and the result is always negative. Wise persons think of others, helping them as much as they can and the result is happiness. Love and compassion are beneficial both to you and others. Through your kindness to others, your mind and heart will open to peace. " ~ Dalai Lama

Originally Posted by making View Post
Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.
Siu Blue Wind is offline  
Old 03-21-07, 10:29 PM
  #21  
Siu Blue Wind
BACK2ME
 
Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,787
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1525 Post(s)
Liked 22 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by Pete Fagerlin
The point that you're completely missing is that the mistake is unrelated to his spelling.
Oh okay! Like I said, I'm learning.
__________________
"Foolish, selfish people are always thinking of themselves and the result is always negative. Wise persons think of others, helping them as much as they can and the result is happiness. Love and compassion are beneficial both to you and others. Through your kindness to others, your mind and heart will open to peace. " ~ Dalai Lama

Originally Posted by making View Post
Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.
Siu Blue Wind is offline  
Old 03-21-07, 10:34 PM
  #22  
MattP.
Obeying Gravity
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 2,962
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Pete Fagerlin
Next, facing the head tube, or adding material to the head tube (virtually, as in installing a headset, or headset spacers) does not change the head angle.
I'm having trouble picturing how this is. It was my assumption, that (for the sake of example) you had a headset w/ a lower stack height of 2 in. Wouldn't the front end feel much higher than if you were running a headset w/ a lower stack height of 15 mm? Isn't adding/taking away from the lower stack height, going to have the same effect as playing around w/ the A to C height of the fork? Thus changing the head angle?

Now, that is only when playing with the lower stack height. If anything is added/subtracted to the upper stack height, yeah, head angle is not going to be affected.
MattP. is offline  
Old 03-21-07, 10:37 PM
  #23  
santiago
sarcasm meter: jerk mode
 
santiago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada
Posts: 4,510

Bikes: 2005 Kona Blast; 2005 Turner Flux, 2006 Felt F3C

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by MattP.
I'm having trouble picturing how this is. It was my assumption, that (for the sake of example) you had a headset w/ a lower stack height of 2 in. Wouldn't the front end feel much higher than if you were running a headset w/ a lower stack height of 15 mm? Isn't adding/taking away from the lower stack height, going to have the same effect as playing around w/ the A to C height of the fork? Thus changing the head angle?

Now, that is only when playing with the lower stack height. If anything is added/subtracted to the upper stack height, yeah, head angle is not going to be affected.
What you're describing, is the height of the stem/handlebar. The head angle does not change.

If you were to add spacers under the headtube it would change. But when dealing with over the head tube, nothing changes. Just look at a bike with a fork with no stem/spacers and you'll see that nothing changes if you start stacking up spacers or leave nothing on.

Sorry - just read through with respect to the headset stack height and not spacer height. I'm tired. Off to bed.
__________________
First Class Jerk
santiago is offline  
Old 03-21-07, 10:38 PM
  #24  
Gravity Worx
Parts Guy
 
Gravity Worx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Boise, ID USA
Posts: 227

Bikes: several

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Pete Fagerlin
Let's get this out of the way first:

Do all forks utilize dual crowns?
For me, YES.
I don't ride single crown forks. Haven't in 10 years, don't intend to either.
At 225lbs with the love of jumping that I've got, Only the big bikes have survived.
My daily rider is a 51 pounder

Re-read my post from 10:22pm

Now then.
These people still need a short stack height headset.

Last edited by Gravity Worx; 03-21-07 at 10:50 PM.
Gravity Worx is offline  
Old 03-21-07, 10:38 PM
  #25  
MattP.
Obeying Gravity
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 2,962
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by santiago
What you're describing, is the height of the stem/handlebar. The head angle does not change.
Are you serious? I was talking about the lower stack height. Lower stack height has nothing to do with the height of the stem/handlebar.
MattP. is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.