Its now between Jamis Dakar XLT 2.0 (2005, but brand new) and the Sette Ace. I am leaning towards the XLT. But the weight is crazy at 7.7 lbs. Although its a 5" travel bike. The XLT will cost me about $200 less than the Sette Ace.

I test rode a couple of Specialized full suspension bikes...Stumjumper FSR Comp and FSR Elite....was not really blown away.....but thats probably due to my inexperience.....The Elite felt really nice though.

Also rode a Jamis XLT (2007)...felt like a tank...heavy with its stock components....but it could be lightened up with a good set of wheels, fork, and tires.....

your comments please...

try the Enduro

The Dakar is a solid choice. my last bike was a Jamis Exile, and it was solid. I learned on it and abused it a ton. Jamis bikes can take abuse.

The $250 difference probably won't allow you to buy down 2+ pounds. It's a tough call on the Ace since nobody can really tell you how it's going to ride. The reviews on the Riddik seem to be pretty good, so one could assume that the Ace will be similar.

A good set of wheels, fork & tires could run you $1k. Me, I'd wait a little while until the reviews on the Ace start coming in. Then you can make a more informed decision.

Hey guy...I'll give you a rundown of my 2005 XLT (frame up build) for reference. I wanted an "all coil" suspended bike that would be able to handle some small jumps/drops too, so you could build yours lighter than mine.

Frame 2005 XLT
Shock Fox Van R Coil
Fork Fox Van R (32mm)
Headset FSA
Post Thomson Elite Layback
Stem Thomson X4
Bars Easton EA70 OS
Grips Odi Ruffian Lock On
Shifters LX Pods
Brakes Avid Juicy 5 175mm / 160mm
Saddle WTB Team Ti
Crankset Shimano Hone 22/32/BG
Cassette SRAM PG990 Red Ooooooh...aaaahh
Derailleurs XT
Hubs Hope Pro II
Spokes DT Comp
Rims DT EX5.1d
Tires Kenda Nevegal 2.35" DTC
Tubes Specialized Std
QR's Salsa Flip-off's

Okay then...mine weighs 32lbs and performs well due to the factory set propedal on the Van R rear shock. You could save yourself a ton of weight in:

Lighter rims, tires, crankset, pedals, handlebar, rear shock, fork

I chose not to because of my aggressive riding nature and my tendancy to break stuff. The Hone cranks are heavier than XT. The rear shock alone is 1lb heavier than a Fox Float or other comparable air shock. The fork is nearly 1/2 lb heavier than decent air forks. The Shimano m505 pedals are heavier than a lump of elephant poo, but they work well and I got them new for less than $20. The 2.35" tire and EX5.1d rim combo adds alot of rotating weight, but I need tough ones. Saving a pound of rotating weight feels much more noticeable than dead weight.

Over all, I am glad I sold my 26lb HT to pimp out my 32lb dually. I can't win any XC races with her, but she is sooooo much fun on the trail.

Hey guy...I'll give you a rundown of my 2005 XLT (frame up build) for reference. I wanted an "all coil" suspended bike that would be able to handle some small jumps/drops too, so you could build yours lighter than mine.

Frame 2005 XLT
Shock Fox Van R Coil
Fork Fox Van R (32mm)
Headset FSA
Post Thomson Elite Layback
Stem Thomson X4
Bars Easton EA70 OS
Grips Odi Ruffian Lock On
Shifters LX Pods
Brakes Avid Juicy 5 175mm / 160mm
Saddle WTB Team Ti
Crankset Shimano Hone 22/32/BG
Cassette SRAM PG990 Red Ooooooh...aaaahh
Derailleurs XT
Hubs Hope Pro II
Spokes DT Comp
Rims DT EX5.1d
Tires Kenda Nevegal 2.35" DTC
Tubes Specialized Std
QR's Salsa Flip-off's

Okay then...mine weighs 32lbs and performs well due to the factory set propedal on the Van R rear shock. You could save yourself a ton of weight in:

Lighter rims, tires, crankset, pedals, handlebar, rear shock, fork...just about everything.

I chose not to because of my aggressive riding nature and my tendancy to break stuff. The Hone cranks are heavier than XT. The rear shock alone is 1lb heavier than a Fox Float or other comparable air shock. The fork is nearly 1/2 lb heavier than decent air forks. The Shimano m505 pedals are heavier than a lump of elephant poo, but they work well and I got them new for less than $20. The 2.35" tire and EX5.1d rim combo adds alot of rotating weight, but I need tough ones. Saving a pound of rotating weight feels much more noticeable than dead weight.

Over all, I am glad I sold my 26lb HT to pimp out my 32lb dually. I can't win any XC races with her, but she is sooooo much fun on the trail.

With an XC/AM build, I think you'd be pretty surprised at how light it can get. I'm not talking 25lbs here, but probably in the neighborhood of 28.

Go carbon bars, RF Deus stem, XT crankset, Mavic x717 rims (or Easton AM Havoc), 2.1-2.2" tires, M540 or better pedals, Fox Float shock and fork, non lock on grips...you'd have a little smoker there.

Cheers

One other thing you might think about is a used Stumpjumper FSR. It's been a proven contender for Trail Bike for a long time for a good reason. It's reliable, light, and works well. It's not as tough as the XLT, but some people don't need it to be.

Thats a great build you go there. I can not really afford too much to make the bike light enough.

I would probably go with the following set up in terms of the major components...

Fork: Marzocchi EXR Race 120mm or Rock Shox Tora 318
Wheels: Mavic XM317 with XT hubs or Azonic Outlaw
Cranks: Shimano LX
Cockpit: FSA FR series
Tires: continental Vertical Pro
Shifters: SRAM X-7
Derailleurs: X-Gen front and X-9 rear
and SRAM PG971 chain and cassette....

nothing too exciting or light. but I can not really spend too much money right away...

thanks for shring your build and suggestions...

With that build...maybe 32-34lbs. (just an estimate)

Sounds solid though.

The weight of the XLT does not bother me as much as my doubt about how well it will climb. most of my rides include climbing. Nothing seriously steep but climbing nonetheless. I feel like I earned the downhill fun when I climb up the rolling hills of PA and upstate NY.

Now, can anybody enlighten me about the climbing characteristics of the XLT 2.0......I am very impressed by the burliness of this bike.....and I also think that I would be a little more adventurous with this bike than I had been in the past...and that reads crashes, mis handling, and stupid pace...

Now, the Ace frame is looking almost too light to me...

but I need a bike that is half way decent in the climbs. it does not have to be great, but I dont want be the last person in the group every time there is an uphill trail. So, please help....

Well...I will paraphrase MBA:

As long as you have the steam, it will climb just fine. It's heavier than an XC sled...that's a given. I've been able to climb steeper/more technical sections with the XLT than I ever could with my Fisher hardtail. (I think it had more to do with the 2.35" tires vs. 2.1's than the frame) The suspension is nice on rough climbs as with any good suspension design. The rear tire stays planted well.

The "MacStrut SwingLink" design is very efficient, and if you build it with a rear shock with some sort of platform settings...you should be good to go. (manitou swinger, fox rp / dhx, Marz Rocco)

Switching from a hard tail to a dually or even an XC (short travel) dually to a long legged one just takes some getting used to. I rode with a buddy last week that had been riding a Cannondale hardtail with 60mm headshock for yeeeeeaaaars. He just got himself a AM new dually. I followed him, watching his lines. He was dodging roots and rocks, standing on climbs, and just doing what came natural to him from riding a hardtail for so many years. As soon as he gets used to the rear suspension sucking up the trail, he will begin to change his lines. I take cruddy lines on purpose just to make people laugh. I sit down through as much "rough stuff" as I can to save leg strength.

Riding the XLT to me is sorta like Richard Cunningham's description of the SantaCruz Nomad (on a smaller scale). Stay seated and pick a good spinning gear on the climbs. Any dual suspension bike will become somewhat active when you stand up and honk on the pedals, but I still do that with my XLT now and then.

I think it climbs well for its intended purpose. It's a heavier bike that loves rocks/roots/downhill sections and can still get you back to the top for more.

Thanks for passing that on chelboed. It's something I keep trying to emphasize to people; some get it and some don't. It was best summed up to me once thusly: "Keep your butt planted and pedal in circles." This advice gets almost any dually to the top in fine form - - it was how even my heavy ol' AS-X served me as a trail bike for three years. It just takes a different mind-set.

so thats what I picked. Jamis XLT 2.0 2005 frame. heavy, robust, and fun....

I drove about 1.5 hours to test ride one of these bikes. A couple of guys who I knew from before. I rode a Dakar XC Pro and a XLT 2.0....Loved the ride of the XC pro and had a lot of fun on the XLT 2.0.....and just like a hot headed guy went with the sexier one- XLT 2.0......blonde, blue eyed, big ****s.....and not the intellegent, practical, funny one (XC Pro).......this had alweas been a problem for me...

so, for $350....I would give this frame a try......

Thanks each one of you for amazing help and info. I am personally indebted to dminor...thanks D...

sorry folks, no pictures till winter.....

best regards....

Congrats and welcome to the full squishy club.

You were smart to try one out before you buy it. I really like mine. I know it could be lighter, but I just can't part with the coil fork and shock...waaaay too smooth.

I'm happy to see another XLT owner on the trail.

Enjoy!!

Thank you chelboed. your personal experience and the information you have shared helped a lot in the decision making process. I really appreciate it.

if I am half as happy as you are with your XLT......i would consider this as a very good decison.

thanks again..

I never bought a bike that I have not test ridden. also, this is what I preach to young and new riders. test ride before you buy a bike. nothing tells you more about a bike than physically trying it out.

Sounds like a great choice, sherpaPeak. Welcome to the ranks of the ruint

I am back with another annoying situation.

So, I have received my 17" XLT 2.0 a few days ago. I just quickly set it up to try it out on the trail. Got too excited to wait until the next season. I must say this frame is sweet (very primary impression).

Now, my buddy and I both got the same frame. He got a 19" (6" tall) and I got a 17" (5'9"). after riding both bikes I feel confused. Please help.

The 17" comes with a 22.6 effective top tube and a 30" standover height. I have a 32.5 inch inseam and I like the clearance on this bike. But the top tube and the cockpit feels a bit small. I set it up with a 90mm stem.

Now the 19" has a 23.2 effective top tube and a 31.2 stand over. The bike is set up with a 60mm stem. when I rode it on a not so technical trails the cockpit felt really nice. it was also nicer on the climb. my riding position was little more XC (the background I am coming from).

When I bough the frame I had a few ideas in mind. The XLT comes with a 68º head tube angle and a 74º seat tube angle. I am not to excited about the 74º seat tube angle. So, I wanted to put a Thomson Layback seat post on it. I thought it would put my wieght more on the rear tire and also give me the seat tube angle that I am most familier with - 73º. I also thought that the layback seat post along with a longer stem 105mm or 110mm would give me a long enough top tube on the 17" XLT. As you can see the 68º headtube can make for a lazy steering. how do you think a longer (110mm) or shorter (60mm) stem going to affect the handling and steering performance of the bike.

Now, If I do that, is it going to totally mess up my position on the bike and make the geometry totally inefficient. or is it going to disturb the balance and weight distribution in a significant way?

The 19" frame felt fine all the way. Except from the Standover height 31.2inch. I want to ride more aggressively with this bike. At least more aggressively than my regular riding, which involves quick singletrack riding with small jumps, drop offs over rocks, roots, and logs. Do you think I can get away with this standover height.

Standover and Toptube lengs on my current bikes are

Kona Cinder Cone 18" (Standover 30.7 inch, effective top tube 23.1 inch)

Haro V5 18" (Standover 30.8 inch with 130mm fork, effective top tube 23.35 inch)

I feel comfortable on both bikes. But, on longer rided I get pain in my lower back.

Help me please. I can still exchange the 17" frame for a 19" XLT....

thank you. thank you. and thank you.

Ck your PM's

Well, I spent about an hour on a lengthy reply but it got erased so here's a condensed version:

The 17" with a 90mm stem actually has a longer cockpit than the 19" with a 60mm stem by around 15mm. So I was wondering if your "cramped" feeling on the 17" is more due to your legs in relationship to the BB.

I'm 6'1 1/2" and I have a 34" inseam. I origionally built my 19" with an Easton EA50 105 x 6 deg rise. I came from a Gary Fisher XC hardtail so when I rode the Jamis, I felt cramped. When I spent time on the Jamis and moved back to the Fisher, I felt overly s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d out. I sold the Fisher to upgrade the XLT and never felt better. I actually switched to an even shorter Thomson X4 90mm x 0 deg stem. I feel much more comfortable on the XLT especially in the fast/tech sections. One thing I DO miss about the Fisher is being able to lock out the front end, stand up on the pedals and muscle up the long gradual climbs. Now I have to sit and spin. I don't get up the hills quicker...quite the opposite actually, but I make it up on the DH and technical sections.

You coming from an XC background may feel wierd for a while, but once you're used to the tighter cockpit...you'll attack things that you used to pansy your way through. I think a longer 115mm stem won't muck up the handling too much, but I really prefer my 90mm.

Any LBS worth their weight would let you try out a number of stems to see what you like best. If you would prefer, I can ship you my EA50 105mm x 6 degree to try out on the trail for a while. If you like it, you can buy one from your LBS and ship mine back to me...but seriously, your LBS should be able to do this w/o you and I paying s&h. Either way, I just want you to be satisfied with your XLT like me.

I also installed a Thomson layback on mine...that combined with the ample rail clearance of the WTB Rocket V Team Ti has given me ample room for leg power and a good feel in the cockpit. Mind you, I'm using an Easton eA70 HiRise bar cut to 25" so I'm probably a little more upright by 1/2" or so.

The biggest thing is that for aggr. trail riding...a 17" bike should be perfect for you at 5'9". If you were going XC racing...you could probably bump up to a 19", but I'd still say that anyone with your build should be on a 17".

My $0.02

I think Moots still makes a softail. That's getting way up there in $$$ though.