More specifically,

DiamondBack Response Sport 2011

https://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/pr...port_Bike_2011

or

Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc 2011

https://www.evanscycles.com/products/...24137#features


Both new, both the same price.

I'm inclined to go with the DiamondBack because of the better fork and hydraulic brakes, but I'm interested in what you guys think.

Thanks

Unless you need a 17" or 23" the Specialized is OOS at Evans; also the price is £369 for the Specialized, and £449 for the Diamondback

For which one, would go for the Specialized everytime over the Diamondback, despite the seemingly lower spec.

For the frame, the Specialzed will be the better of the 2 options, from the look on the pictures of the bikes, the Specialized look more like a higher end bike from the geometry / setup that the Diamondback; the top tube on the Diamondback looks to be very high for a modern bike.

For the spec, RS Darts are better than the Suntour's on the Specialized, but not enough to worry about, they (the Darts) are servicable, but the cost may not make it cost effective. For the brakes, yes the Diamondback has better hydraulics, but if you are going to get cable, Avids like the Specialized has are the best to get (BB7's would have been nicer)

Both shops are good, Evans has an advantage if you have a store near you, as you can get it shipped to them, and they can build it up, with Winstanley, they will ship built / checked, but it will be upto you to make any final adjustments.

I'd go for the diamondback over the Specialized. Specialized's business practices are a bit of a turn off.

Specialized is getting hammered in the forums. Wonder if much will happen to their image in the eyes of the general public.

OP: I'd go for the Diamondback for the fork. Not totally sure about the Suntour forks yet. They've been getting their forks under a lot of UCI riders but still, their lowend image will take a while to erase from my memory.

After a quick UK site shopping trip, I'd go with this 2011 Kona Blast for £430.30:
Tora fork=better than Dart & Suntour, other components around same level as Spec and DB, except better RD with the Deore

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=74272

I don't know much about Corratec as they're not really around here in the states, but this might be the ticket. Dart 3, and lots of SLX luvin for £444.67:

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=69537

I missed something?

Huge stank over them suing former employees that started their own bike company:

https://velonews.competitor.com/2012/...ad-bike_201808

Love my Diamondbacks. My response has been a great bike. ide say go DB

Going off topic

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...cialized+court

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...cialized+court

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...cialized+court

will this have any impact on the general public, no, most people will be more interested in value for money than dealer and personel issues. same thing happens to other companies, and much worse, we still buy / use their products, BP for one, in the UK, there is alot discource over the policies of Tesco (UK's largest supermarket) but everyone still uses them

Back on topic

would be worth the OP giving some more info, like how tall, riding type, budget, as all these had a bearing on any suggestions.

for some given, the Corratec, their German, good spec, small bike, as 39cm / 15", the Kona is a good choice as well

For the forks, the biggest issue low end suntour have is in the UK there are very few spare parts, but both are cheap, and it would barely worth servicing either, as good replacement would cost little more than a service.

Another advantage of the Specialized, is the warranty in the UK is normally excellent if you are the orginal owner, Diamondback being a division of Derby will be more faceless, and harder to get service from.

A history of them going after the small guy to the point where they can't recover financially. Trying to tell their dealers what specific products that they can carry. For example, if you are a specialized dealer, you are not allowed by their decree Giro or bell helmets, giro shoes.

That's anti-competitive, and can't happen it the UK (the OP is from the UK based on shops linked to) yes we have Specialized Stores which only sell Specialized products, along with similar ones from Giant and Trek but any supplier / manufacture trying to prevent a shop from selling another brand would be breaking EU Competition Law, so they can't do that.

They are in litigation with bellsports now with that fact. With bellsports serving them.

Anything but Specialized or any other "big" name brand. Go with a good setup that you won't see every time you ride. I bought my Look in central Ohio and have yet to see another Look on the road or path.

Get the D-Back... better parts pick, it's not the Big S (see posts above), and the Spec frame WON'T be better; at that price point, they're all within a whisker of each other.

but why simply avoid the big name brands though? are we just avoiding the fact that they do make good bikes? because they do. all big businesses do this. I always find it humorous that there's always backlash the bigger a company gets.

I did a good bit of research and decided they were both almost equal in quality. They are both pretty durable, rigid frames, both weigh almost exactly the same, and have relatively mediocre-quality components. I went with the Diamondback Overdrive for the following reasons:

1) Better pedals (steel vs plastic).
2) Better fork (mentioned above, but it has 100mm travel vs 80mm on the Hardrock, for starters).
3) More aggressive tire tread (this is primarily an off-road bike for me, so I didn't really want even XC tires).
4) A little cheaper at my preferred dealer. Another had the Hardrock Sport Disc at $700, "marked down" to $600, and I bought the DB Overdrive for $580 + tax.
5) I like the dealer from whom I bought my bike. Great guy to just sit and chat with, and never talked down to me.

I didn't know anything about Specialized's business practices or whatever. I just did enough research to see that they were generally the same quality of bike, but the DB had some features I liked a little better to start off with, and was available slightly cheaper and from my preferred LBS.

Good grief, now I have to wear the same bandanna that I sneak into Wal-mart with to my Specialized dealer? I'm glad I get to excercise a little more freedom than that.

Does anyone actually know the two people in the suit? Did they borrow the design? Is the giant Specialized THAT worried about them overtaking their sales or just making a point about copy infringement? Guess I don't know, but do know that the underdog isn't always the saint. Not saying it couldn't be the other way either.

I do know that my lbs owner is a great guy, has been nothing but generous and helpful and his products fit me and how I ride right now. Going to keep going there till those things change.

Don't know about borrowing the design, but when I first saw a picture of their bike, it sure looked like a Specialized, if your going to do your own thing, you need to make it unique especially if doing it when you start working on it at your previous employer.

I'll second that.. I own 2 DB responses an '07 and a 2011 sport... both have been very durable and reliable..

The people Spesh sued were former employees, and there's enough difference between their design and the "affected" Spesh design that they were dead in the water. Heard the other day, after $400,000 in legal fees by the defendants and $1.5M by Spesh, the copyright infringement charge fell apart, and ONE of the two was found liable for 'breach of contract'; award to Spesh: one...dollar.

Poetic justice at its best.

Someone else mentioned that "big business" bikes HAVE to be good, otherwise they wouldn't BE big business; whatever. At some point in their growth, they had a serious advantage -- now, it's just riding the wave from that, for the most part. Spesh or Trek are big enough to cover a wider customer base, so they absorb a bigger slice of the market. I'll ALWAYS pick Santa Cruz, Jamis, Kona, or some smaller brand over the big boys, simply because of the passion that drives the smaller brands. Others can chuckle over the 'big-biz slam' tendencies, but really -- show me a big business that got there with clean hands. Spesh sure didn't, jumping on the Horst Link patent and breaking everybody else's balls over imagined infringements ever since; Trek basically squeezed LeMond out of the bike business because of "Lance-olitics". GM broke the backs of streetcars 70+ years ago, Standard Oil was a ruthless demon in their ascendancy....

I think better deals can be found outside of those two offers. If you could raise your budget a few hundred pounds you would be getting a hell of a lot more bike for the money.

Oh yea, I also wanted to say that if you are planning on riding a lot in rough mountain terrain that neither of those bikes will hold up without significant investment in replacement parts. I bought a bike specced similar to that diamondback a little less than a year ago. After about 3k km of mountain riding all that is left of the original parts are the brakes, frame, handlebars, headset, front wheel, and seatpost. A few things replaced were luxury, and hadn't broken, but many things were necessary to stay safe during the kind of riding I like to do. Had I had the money then to buy a 1k euro bike instead of a 400 euro bike it would have been money well spent

Passion is a wonderful thing and I'm positive that it drives a lot of companies large and small to do whatever it is they do. I also know that without profit or the protection of your ideas that you would not get big enough to overcome your local area with the use of advertising before someone decided to do something "similar" at a competitive price.

Is there that much difference between Kona, Jamis, Salsa ? Do their components interchange? Do they not look at each others products and trends when deciding on their next move in the industry? I just don't buy the idea that Specialized is riding a wave and isn't putting a ton of money into R&D of carbon, engineering, and building of bikes that are going to appeal to the masses. They have the money to pay for leading edge folks in the business to make their product better, as well as new and desireable. When those folks then step out on their own I understand Spec.'s concern.

The other brands are great and a terrific example of the choices and options we can celebrate because of capitalism, I'm glad they're there and will probably buy there some day, but I'm not going to go into punk rock mode and say I will only buy from the "little" guy or be a sell out. I drive Ford products too and aren't one bit ashamed about that either, who knows what kind of nasty business they've undertaken to climb to where they're at.

Slamming the big dogs is easy and not hard to get a mob to roll along with, but they all started somewhere just like Starbucks. Just as long as you don't look down at me for making decisions based on my own research, knowledge or lack of, and monetary status.

I bought a Rockhopper in the last year and have had numerous drivetrain issues with it. Issues that shouldn't have been there. I didn't get a lot of help from Specialized. I got the run-around. I ended up taking the bike to an LBS that didn't sell it to me, and I paid for the majority of the repairs even though the bike is still under warranty. I got tired of messing with Specialized. In the course of this fiasco I did a lot of searching on the web and saw that others were having the same problems, but Specialized never owned up to it with me.
I'd be getting the DB, without a doubt.
If you don't believe me, do a search for 2011 Rockhopper reviews. Seems like people expect to replace/upgrade the drivetrain components when they buy these bikes. You would think a $700+ product would perform properly out of the box.

I have taken my Overdrive out 6 more times since my last post (I'd done one ride with it at the time) and done about 35 miles or so total of some pretty aggressive stuff (went through about half of the "Expert" trail yesterday, about 5 miles worth over about an hour). The worst thing so far is the back brake has been squeeling, but it may just all need a good washing. But, everything is holding up great, the wheels are still completely true, and the rear shifter (the only one I use) is still working perfectly. Granted, not a lot of distance, but it has definitely seen way more than average stresses for this distance (at least 100 shifts yesterday, for example, in that 12 miles).

any updates on this purchase? you still have the bike?