Oh and I love the feeling of a good drift...I just pick and choose when it is needed.

However skidding creates unatural water runways. Which increases water errosion. Come to whistler and check out the braking bumps from newbs braking through corners. The damage is multiplied in one month to the point where it equals most peoples trails after several years. You can see how the water gets into those skid grooves and works the groove even further into the ground causing waterways in trails where they wouldn't normally be and seriously damaged trails. Without a crew constantly fixing the problem the trails would all be crappy bumps...

All because of skidding and poor braking techniques. If you don't believe me, come ride a-line with me in August (during a rainfall would be even better) on a rigid...you will never skid on a trail again.

Troie, you said that you wanted to slow down fast enough to not hit a bush, boulder whatever, in one of your early posts. Later you justified your use of the word "fishtailing" by saying that you were simply causing the tei to "hydroplane for lack of a better word" across the dirt. Maybe its just me, but if I wanted to slow down fast and avoid something, I wouldn't try to hydroplane my rear tire, hydroplaning won't help you slow down at all. And skidding as well isnt the best way to slow down, it takes much less room to not lock up and use both brakes, assuming you have both. That is part of the reason cars have anti-lock brakes, a more controlled(to avoid hitting things) faster way to stop.

Would you say the same to a World Class Downhill Racer? They need to skid otherwise they go off course.

You're not racing downhill are you? Find a xc rider who says skidding is a good idea.

Are you a World Class Downhill Racer?

What kind of bicycle and tires do you have? Bicycle tires are not like motorcycle tires and some are so thin that a few pavement slides will ruin the tires.

It of course depends on the front / rear weight bias and the design of your bike. On some bikes just a hard snap of the rear outwards may do it.

You don't have many of the same handling traits of a motorcycle. You can't keep a drift going very long on pavement because you can't pedal in a drift and you have much slower speeds. You come to a stop very quickly. The bicycle is a lot more top heavy than the motorcycle, it high sides a lot worse. The bicycle may be 30 lbs. and you might be 175 lbs. So you are much heavier than the bike and very top heavy.
If the motorcycle is only 400 lbs. It's still more than you and you center of gravity is a lot lower. It's a lot easier with the profile of a motorcycle tire too. And of course you can keep the power on.

Didn't read my post did ya...

They aren't skidding, skidding is a loss of control. They do power slide but even then it is rare. They scrub enough speed to make the turn as fast as possible without sliding out.

You really need to get a movie call Fundementals and listen to what Gracia, Peat and Minnar have to say about steering.

I would be really interested to know what the guys who race have to say. Kona, Auto, hopper, dbd...I ride lots of dh and am just saying what I have been taught. Drifting is useful in some cases but most of the time there is a 'faster' way around a corner. And you never brake IN the corner, period...then again they might not want in this conversation haha

Additionally, the courses during the races are specially groomed and prepped for this type of activity. And afterwards, they are properly cleaned up.

I think this post was originally about pavement.

I ride XC, and am wholeheartedly against drifting corners. As mentioned, it makes ruts, which makes water channels, which makes mud where it shouldn't be, which makes me sit out...or I get so frustrated at the situation that I go ride in the mud, which makes more ruts. The cycle of life continues.

I am very pro-pavement drifting though.

Let me think... I talked to Luke Strom in Thredbo, ok he may not race worlds but he is a consistant top 10 rider in Aus and Aus has 20 of the top 50 riders at the moment so he may know a thing or two. Also I have talked to Rennie once, guess what both say? Brake BEFORE corner, let go of break during corner pedal from apex of corner. Also they said dont skid, skid equals inefficient stopping and tyre wear. Drifting is good for high speed open corners as it allows you to hit it a bit faster and sort of flows better.

What I do, and by no means am I a brilliant rider, is brake before a corner then release during. If I want to drift I will finf the loosest patch of dirt on the line into the corner and just lean forward a bit and slide the rear out. However I am guilty of skidding occasionally, today for example on practice day for the race tomorrow, I jumped over the car landed off line, locked my rear to get sideway, then slid into the berm (without brakes on anymore) and got around, this was much slower than taking the proper line and riding through.

Also last week I did a rider skills course with Steve Marsh, pro Aussie who does the Nats scene and beat Kovarik last race. Well he was saying the best thing to do is just be smooth. Hit the corner a bit slower than you think you want to, let me tell you this is the best advice I have ever heard. He also said that in 95% of situations rolling through corner is quicker as it gives you the best EXIT SPEED. He also has a way with words that is so cool, "The drops aren't too big, just keep your line and you'll be fine"

Oh and back to the original question, to drift around a corner on pavement go fast lean forward and turn hard, you may need to tap your rear brake to initiate the turn but don't hold. My friend is the master of drifting, at Threbo we were in our car park and he'd go at a wall at about 30km/h and just slide his rear (with no brake) about 3m before the wall, get around full 180 and stop just before hitting the wall.

You could try using the front brake, but from personla experience I find trying to slide with front brake on = not nice grip on front, leaning forward to full loss of control and possible crash. When I try on pavement I just go fast, preload (I'm on a dually) and then push my rear out like I'm trying to do a whip off a jump. Usually induces drift, faster you go easier to induse and hold.

I stand corrected. I guess I have my own style of riding unless we are all confusing the terms "skidding" and "fishtailing" with "drifting". Next time I ride, Ill try to take a small vid.

Anytime your tire loses traction you are losing time.

I have to say this is a pretty stupid thread.

Definatly took a turn to the bad, where did all this dirt talk come from. LOL

Following post #2.

No it isnt. We are discussing technique not winter mating rituals of african swallows.