kyle16

It will take me a lot of work to get in good enough shape for it, but it seems like a good goal to strive for and it sounds really fun. I have questions though.

First background for my riding. At this point, I have done two centuries, both within the last month. I was training to ride the century for the Livestrong Challenge. This is over with now, so I need to set myself a new goal. Currently, my baseline riding per week is around 70-80 per week, but try and ride a good 60-80 miler every couple weeks with some good climbing. My current weight is around 220, but am working hard at getting that down to about 180-190 by year's end with better self discipline with my eating habits and more regular exercise. I plan on continuing this and hopefully increasing my mileage and climbing throughout the summer and get in a couple more centuries before September.

my questions.

1. Has anyone else done the Davis double and what are their opinions on it for being a person's first double? I have read that it is one of the better ones in California for first timers. Are there other ones in the state that are recommended?

2. What are people's suggestions for training to get the 200 miles besides riding more and climbing more? What kind of cross training is the best? Does anyone have any good articles on the interwebs or books that I should read?

3. Does anyone know any good articles/books to read concerning what happens to your body as you do the ultra distances, such as glucose/salt/calcium loss? I know a little bit about it, but I have a lot to learn still.

4. What type of equipment do I need to invest in/bring to the double? Of course, I will need a good set of lights, leg/arm warmers. Can you drop off/pick up items at rest stops or are there even rest stops? I know that with randeuring (sp?), they tend to push for the riders self supporting each other, but I am not sure if the Davis Double falls under this category also.

Any other input would also be great.

Cheers!

jobob

Lots of training articles on the UMCA (Ultra Marathon Cycling Association) website

https://www.ultracycling.com/training/training.html

https://www.ultracycling.com/training...centuries.html

spingineer

Another good read is https://www.caltriplecrown.com/training.htm

The weather the past two years has been hot ... hot hot hot ... I would train for riding in heat, which means hydration, intaking as much electrolyte as your body can handle, but I think more of it is conditioning in massive heat.

It used to be a lot easier double, but since they added Cobb Mountain, it made it a bit tougher.

Ygduf

I didn't ride Davis this year, but I hear it was HOT.

In getting used to distance riding, the biggest surprise to me was how much I was actually sweating. With the wind and materials that bike gear are made of, I never felt that sweaty. But, when I ride on the spin bike at home, I know I can lose 2lbs of water in 30-40 minutes. It's OK to lose some water weight on a ride, but for me that means I need to polish off 1-1.5 24oz. bottles/hour just to minimize attrition. Still I tend to lose about .5lbs/hour. That means for a double, I'd come in about 6lbs lighter than I started.

I guess my recommendation is to figure out your sweat rate, try to match that with intake, take 3 endurolytes/hour, and try to eat 3-400 calories/hour, try to keep your HR in zone 3, and don't stop for too long at the breaks.

jobob

Regarding question #1, here's a link to the list of CA Triple Crown doubles showing the elevation gain for each one.
Of course, total elevation gain isn't the whole story, the location & duration of the climbs, and the weather in that location at that time of year are also big factors, as Ron mentioned.

https://www.caltriplecrown.com/schedule.htm

The Solvang Spring Double is considered a good first double. But that said, Veronica and maillotpois rode that one a few years ago and, IIRC, they encountered a nasty hailstorm.

I was planning to do the Solvang Autumn Double as my very first double this fall, if I had done OK on the Death Ride. The Solvang Autumn is the weekend before my 50th birthday and I figured it would be a great way to say farewell to my yoot. Plus I think Solvang has more bakeries per square mile than anywhere else in CA, so what's not to like?

Needless to say, my crash this spring put the kabosh on all those plans but I hope to tackle a double or 2 or 3 next year when I'm an old lady along with the Death Ride

rydaddy

It's good that you are making this a goal now. My advice (for now) is to not overthink it and RIDE LOTS. You have all winter and some to worry about the logistics.

Make it a goal to comfortably finish a century by the end of summer.

kjfitz

First, congrats on your two centuries this year. How long did they take?

Generally it looks like you have a good plan. I did my first century last spring and then I did my first doubles this year (at 185 on a heavy bike) and they went like clockwork. So the goal is definitely reasonable.

I suggest two additional things to train on this year.

1) Nutrition and hydration - find what works for you and use it in training so you can eliminate it as a concern on the double. I use the equivalent to Hammer Nutrition Perpetuem. YMMV.

2) Keep your breaks and rest stops while riding to a bare minimum. Stops add up when multiplied over a long ride. It could make the difference between success and DNF if you develop problems along the way.

I did Davis as my second double. I did the Death Valley Spring Double as my first. I actually thought the Death Valley Double was easier. It had more climbing but 90% of it was between mile 50 and 100. Davis had two big very hot climbs. I think Davis used to be considered easier than it is today. They had to reroute the course a few years ago and the new course includes Cobb Mountain at mile 100 which can be challenging if you are not ready for it. That is followed by a second exposed climb in the hottest part of the day (over 100 degrees the last two years.)

All that said, Davis is very well supported. There are also a lot more riders out there than most doubles so no matter what your skill level is you'll probably be riding with or near others. On the smaller rides like Death Valley you can find yourself riding very alone if you aren't riding with a buddy.

The months before my first double I did regular solo centuries in the East Bay hills. A few weeks before I did a 150 with 10,000 feet of climbing (more for peace of mind than actual need.) I also commuted a rather short 40 minute round trip to work on my bike three or four days a week. I was doing 150 to 200 a week. No other cross training other than a few four mile fast walks now and then and few hikes on the weekends.

You have to read past the spin for Hammer Nutrition products but there is a lot of very good information in their Endurance Athlete's Guide to Success (pdf).

Take what you'd normally take on a long ride. I don't actually remember if they had drop bags or light drops since I never use them. Sorry. I have a Schmit Dynohub / eDelux light combination on my bike so I always have lights with me an never need to worry about batteries. They are expensive though. I had a base layer and arm warmers with me as well. Would have been fine with just the arm warmers. I usually have my rain coat on long rides so I probably had it with me at Davis.

You'll find lots of good info on training, equipment and nutrition at the UMCA website.

Also check out the Long Distance forum here at Bike Forum where we talk about lots of these same topics. Dig into machka's old posts. She has quite a bit of advice for people new to long distance riding.

Good luck on the training and rides! Let us know how it goes.

huytheskigod

I should be there it hand you water

redspoke

I started riding a mountain bike in June of 2007 riding 16-miles about 4x a week. I had not ridden at all for about 10 years. I graduated to a road bike in September of that year. Rode when I could during the winter and hit the trainer at night about 4-5x/week for an hour. Started commuting 32-miles r/t in the spring a couple of times a week and was able to finish the 2008 DD in 110 degree heat in 15 hours. It was my first organized ride ever. It was hard and miserable and I thought about SAGging a couple of times, but soldiered on. In the words of Rob Schnieder... YOU CAN DO IT!!! Nutrition and hydration are definitely the key to success with any ride over 100 miles.

loopybunny

No suggestions... but wow! That's quite a goal, at least to my untrained eyes.

Lanceoldstrong

Go for it!

2 cents worth from a big guy and a first time 2009 Davis Double finisher.

1) Do drop the weight. I have ridden Centuries at 210 and let me tell you 190 is a lot more fun.

2) Pre-hydrate for a week before

3) Get lots of sleep the week before. It is amazing how seldom this gets mentioned. I got this tip from a real old hand at cycling. It is a gem.

4) Pack lots of endurolites from Hammer and take 3 per hour. Ice Breakers mints and candy come in an amazingly perfect container for these when you reuse it for this purpose. Fits in a jersey pocket and you don't even know it is there.


5) Bring some perpetuom from Hammer in powder form and mix it in your bottles for late in the ride.
For a while at one point, I got kind of burnt out on food and the nutritional power of perpetuom is a potent boost.

6) The secret weapon: caffeine - depending on your tolerance for it a little kicker can really help. The pros have known this for years and for them a can of coke was always a welcome hand out from the team car on long rides. Use some 2x caffeine GU type packets late in the ride. (Last 50 miles)

JoelS

I'd like to ride it too, but the last 2 years have been really hot. My body doesn't cope well with the heat. I'm prone to heat exhaustion, regardless of how much I drink. Been that way since I was a kid. So I've been holding off.

Tapeworm21

My goal for next year is to do ALC.... and then shortly after do STP with my step brother which is 202 miles. Something to build up to anyways, always need to have a goal.

Ygduf

ALC sounds like it would be fun. It's at a really bad time of year, as far as work is concerned though.

Britpower

My preparation for my first double was plenty of miles at a steady pace, alternating with speed work and climbing. I started my preparation in December as i rode the Solvang double in March. You will find that there are fast pacelines during the ride try and tag along for as long as you feel comfortable but don't push yourself too hard early on.
Rest stops should be brief, just refuel, bathroom etc, eat while you ride at a steady pace. When you reach the lunch stop have a proper break, sit in the shade, drink plenty and eat the great sandwiches provided. If it is very hot, as it was this year, get an ice sock and keep cool.
Plenty of rest and sleep the week prior to the event is important and just enjoy the ride.

Rushfan

The easiest double I've ever heard of is the Seattle to Portland ride (STP). It was last weekend, and as you might guess, the course runs from Seattle to Portland. Elevation is 2500' (or 4500', depending upon whose Garmin you trust), and weather is generally much cooler than inland California.

I did it a couple of years ago pretty comfortably. Beautiful scenery, too.

Drawbacks are the food at rest stops was not the greatest and the ride has a large number of sketchy riders. However, if you find in your build up next year that you want to ride an easier double, consider STP.

As for training tips, here's some obvious ones that you probably know from completing your centuries:

1. Train in similar terrain for your goal. If it's a hilly double, ride hills.
2. Figure out your equipment and nutrition before your event. Don't use your event to test anything new. Made that mistake once with a new drink-got an upset stomach which bugged me the entire ride.
3. Plan your training to peak for your event. Plan to taper before your event.

kyle16

Thank you all very much for the extensive input already. I am running short on time right now, but I will read all the articles when I come back into town after the weekend.

kyle16

Yeah, I have always tried to drink lots of liquids on my rides as I also sweat a lot. If it is about 75-80 degrees out, i tend to consume around 1- 24oz bottle of water/electrolyte drink for ever 10-12 miles I go. That has seemed to work well for me in the past. Last sunday at the the Livestrong Challenge, i put down 8-9 bottles for the ride, but I seemed to be much more dehydrated than usual. I think I should start weighing myself before and after my longer rides to start gauging how much water I am actually sweating out.

Any suggestions on a good HR monitor? I have been thinking of getting one for a bit, maybe even getting one with a barometric altimeter/gps on it.


Solvang would be interesting to ride around. Bakeries are also good. I was leaning towards the Davis Double also because it is reasonably close starting point and I know people in Davis that I can stay at for free. I guess I could drive down south and stay in a hotel though.

Also, I thought it would be early enough in the season for Davis so it would not be too hot, but I was proven wrong there.


My first century was actually 116 miles, but relatively flat with only 3500 feet of climbing, according to mapmyride, though I find that they tend to undercut the elevation for longer distances. My guess is that I actually climbed closer to 4000-4500 feet. Except for my back, I felt good after that ride. I took my time and for part of it, rode with a friend. When I did the Livestrong, I pushed hard for quite a bit of the ride (check out the Livestrong thread in the NorCal section to read my account on it) and I was hurting on that ride. I added a few extra miles that day to top out right at 100 miles. I have to make sure to keep my own pace on long rides.


Definately going to drop the weight. That's why I am on my bike so much

Endurolytes seems to keep coming up on this thread. Will buy some.

Caffeine is something that I always try to have a little of before a longer ride. It gives me a good jump in the morning. I am traditional, I like coffee.


That is great. I know a couple people that have done ALC before and have loved it. I might do it in a couple years, but I already know of my fundraiser for next year, the Waves to Wine MS ride. Doing that one for my mom (she has it). I am also liking the idea of STP as a first double also. It sounds like it would be a lot of fun, but have also heard that there are a lot of bad cyclists on that ride.


Thanks again to everyone that had input. Next step, ride bike.

kyle16

My first century took about 8 hours, including a lunch break and other breaks. The livestrong Challenge took me 5:45 of riding and 6:37 total time.

I will do a lot more research and trying out of different ones. Hammer seems to be a good brand overall and provides many types of electrolyte supplements for all different purposes.

I feel I did a pretty good job with that at the Livestrong Challenge. I think that a bit less than an hour for 100 miles is reasonable and I would not have stopped quite as long if it weren't for my legs cramping. I kept having to stretch out my hamstring.

Yep, I know that I will need to do a lot more longer rides. That is actually one of my goals by the end of summer. Ride 100 miles and climb 10,000 feet.


Thanks for the in depth response. I will let you know how it all goes.

WMBIGS

Do as many centuries as you can between now and then. The Death Ride is an awesome ride if you can fit that in. Commute to work and make it a 30-60 mile day 3-4 days a week. The day after each century, do an hour of nice easy spinning for recovery. I did the Davis D once. I was in great shape. Got tired of being on the bike for the last 40 miles, and ended up hammering that out and guzzling Coke the last 30 or so. Don't listen to the hype of Resurrection hill. Hit it at a good pace that won't burn you out. It's long but gentle. Jump in a pace line to save some energy. The food and the sleep waiting at the end make it worth it.
Have fun, getting envious of not being able to ride down there anymore.

cccorlew

I have done two doubles, this and last years Davis. I wrote about them.
I even did an audio "This American Life" sort of thing.
Check this link. It's to all my Davis Double entries on my blog and in one entry, the audio link.
https://ccorlew.blogspot.com/search/l...uble%20century

maillotpois

You've gotten a lot of good suggestions here. Keep riding!

200k is a great long training ride for a double. 2 good 200ks that fall at a good time for Davis are the Mt Hamilton Challenge and the Wine Country 200k. I did both before I did Davis the first time back in 2005.

VaultGuru

We rode STP this year. It was my first 200. What a blast. The Death Ride is generally the same weekend. I am not a PNW guy, so I don't ride rain, especially for 200 miles. So, I signed up for both DR and STP. Both sell out, so you have an option. If the weather looks good for STP (within 36 hours of the ride), then commit to STP and sell the DR slot. If STP weather is crappy, then go do the DR. You will be able to do either one if you follow the above suggestions everyone has made. One other tidbit...bring lots of extra Chamois Butter or Bag Balm. You will need it around 130-150 miles. My report on the SP is in this thread. STP has a two day option. Don't do it. The two day riders were treated to great conditions on Saturday and got blasted by rain, hail and thunderstorms. Doesn't sound like fun to me.
https://www.bikeforums.net/pacific-northwest/561805-seattle-portland-ride.html