Absolutely Despicable
#1
Don't mince words
Thread Starter
Absolutely Despicable
Normally I'm a 120/60, 39 bpm kinda gal. Life happens, I deal with it, I don't get my knickers in a twist.
This, however, caused me to flush with anger.
That she may have to spend the rest of her life in China may be punishment enough. I'd still like to see her face a jury.
This, however, caused me to flush with anger.
That she may have to spend the rest of her life in China may be punishment enough. I'd still like to see her face a jury.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: American SPacifNorthWest. PDX
Posts: 463
Bikes: American Eagle, Nishiki.Semipro. Great bike.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
The driver accused of striking and killing a bicyclist in Danville in 2009 has fled the country. KGO's Leslie Brinkley reports that 43-year-old Hong Guo jumped bail and flew to Beijing, China in May, weeks before her preliminary hearing on vehicular manslaughter charges.
#3
Full Member
https://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_18807380
Above is the link to the Mercury News story. Many of the comments are very upsetting as usual. I'd like to know if anyone has some information about the accident itself.
Above is the link to the Mercury News story. Many of the comments are very upsetting as usual. I'd like to know if anyone has some information about the accident itself.
#4
Don't mince words
Thread Starter
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
Posts: 7,239
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
https://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_18807380
Above is the link to the Mercury News story. Many of the comments are very upsetting as usual. I'd like to know if anyone has some information about the accident itself.
Above is the link to the Mercury News story. Many of the comments are very upsetting as usual. I'd like to know if anyone has some information about the accident itself.
https://www.danvilleexpress.com/story.php?story_id=6285
#6
Don't mince words
Thread Starter
https://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_18807380
Above is the link to the Mercury News story. Many of the comments are very upsetting as usual. I'd like to know if anyone has some information about the accident itself.
Above is the link to the Mercury News story. Many of the comments are very upsetting as usual. I'd like to know if anyone has some information about the accident itself.
Gee, imagine that she wants a free entry to the US to see her kids...ha! That she suffers, not seeing her kids, as the victim's family suffers, seems very "tit for tat." Can't say that I'm sympathetic.
The irony meter is pegged. I'm trying to not enjoy it.
#7
moth -----> flame
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 5,916
Bikes: 11 CAAD 10-4, 07 Specialized Roubaix Comp, 98 Peugeot Horizon
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
I think everyone loses in this story, tragic.
__________________
BF, in a nutshell
BF, in a nutshell
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Northern California
Posts: 10,879
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
5 Posts
I think this statement from the prosecutor is even more despicable: "For all intents and purposes, she was going to get probation." The standard punishment for murdering a bicyclist is a slap on the wrist. Be careful out there.
#9
Full Member
Thank you for the link, Prathmann. The prosecutor seemed to be giving her credit for not fleeing the scene, however, after hitting the bike she was involved in a collision with a Range Rover and injured. It doesn't seem to me that she was in a condition to flee or she likely would had done it based on her subsequent actions. She was also from Cupertino, which suggests to me that she was possibly unfamiliar with the road and driving in an unsafe manner.
#10
Too Fat for This Sport
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Northern California
Posts: 698
Bikes: 2011 Cannondale Supersix
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Everyone loses is correct. I don't believe most accidents between vehicles and cycles are due to malicious intent, it is how the driver reacts that usually exacerbates the situation. Convicted by a jury and found guilty, the "right" thing to do would be to spend the time. Unfortunately some people fail to consider their actions;
In all likelihood she would've probably got a 5-7year sentence with the majority being probation. Sad for all the families involved.
EDIT: This was prelim, gasp*, wow she totally blew it. Dumb move.
MERCURY NEWS "This is a non-drug, non-DUI, non-road rage vehicular manslaughter. She had no criminal record, and she didn't flee the scene. For all intents and purposes, she was going to get probation," OConnell said. "She's made this a lot more difficult on herself."
EDIT: This was prelim, gasp*, wow she totally blew it. Dumb move.
#11
Full Member
In the Economist I rec'd today, (Sep 3-9 issue) on page 32 this is a brief article about the state of bike commuting in the United States: "Calm Down: With a very few exceptions, America is no place for cyclists."
The article contrasts the differences in traffic calming between American cities and European ones. The article also mentions the indifference of police and prosecutors to bicycle accident victims.
The article contrasts the differences in traffic calming between American cities and European ones. The article also mentions the indifference of police and prosecutors to bicycle accident victims.
#12
Full Member
Forgot to post the link. https://www.economist.com/node/21528302
#13
Don't mince words
Thread Starter
No kidding. Nice to know we cyclists matter.
#14
RacingBear
Cyclists don't matter, quite a few people are gleeful with joy when they hear cyclist got hurt. Disgusting all around.
#15
phony collective progress
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Hoosey
Posts: 2,973
Bikes: https://velospace.org/user/36663
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
3 Posts
I read about this... "person" (for lack of a better term) the other day, and my first thought was that if you're going to flee the country for a crime and leave your family behind, make it count! Don't bother for parking tickets, killing cyclists, jaywalking, of ripping the tag off of mattresses.
#16
Crawlin' up, flyin' down
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
Posts: 5,656
Bikes: 1967 Paramount; 1982-ish Ron Cooper; 1978 Eisentraut "A"; two mid-1960s Cinelli Speciale Corsas; and others in various stages of non-rideability.
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1027 Post(s)
Liked 2,528 Times
in
1,058 Posts
Of course, in this case, Driver A did turn Driver B. albeit after the fact. Now she deserves to be treated significantly more harshly. But up until she broke and ran - well, okay, up until she handed over the out-of-date passport, which smells to high heaven - more lenient treatment was appropriate. We can argue about whether probation was enough, but I don't see it as inherently offensive. After all, if we are completely honest with ourselves, sh*t does happen and every one of us who drives has to say "there but for the grace of God go I."
In the Economist I rec'd today, (Sep 3-9 issue) on page 32 this is a brief article about the state of bike commuting in the United States: "Calm Down: With a very few exceptions, America is no place for cyclists."
The article contrasts the differences in traffic calming between American cities and European ones. The article also mentions the indifference of police and prosecutors to bicycle accident victims.
The article contrasts the differences in traffic calming between American cities and European ones. The article also mentions the indifference of police and prosecutors to bicycle accident victims.
I am not against all separate bike paths (this is where I think some folks go overboard), but we have to be careful that we don't shoot ourselves in the proverbial foot.
__________________
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
#17
RacingBear
You have to be careful here, too. Creating complete separation of cyclists and cars creates a mindset in some that cyclist can only be on completely separate paths. John Forester and the VC folks oversell this, but they do have a point. We want, and the law says we deserve, equal and safe access to the roads (with a few exceptions, like most freeways), not to be banned from them for our own "safety."
I am not against all separate bike paths (this is where I think some folks go overboard), but we have to be careful that we don't shoot ourselves in the proverbial foot.
I am not against all separate bike paths (this is where I think some folks go overboard), but we have to be careful that we don't shoot ourselves in the proverbial foot.
#18
Full Member
I was aware the Economist article wasn't completely germane to the thread; it pertains to commuters, but I posted it because of the Economist's opinion that police are indifferent to cyclists--which I believe can certainly be true.
I agree that there can be mitigating circumstances to accidents, however, hitting a bicyclist from behind does look bad; I'd like to know more details of the incident however.
Personally I'm always on the lookout for cyclists when driving, I even check my passenger side mirror before turning right. If I pass a cyclist, I always consider the possibility that he/she may catch up with me.
I agree that there can be mitigating circumstances to accidents, however, hitting a bicyclist from behind does look bad; I'd like to know more details of the incident however.
Personally I'm always on the lookout for cyclists when driving, I even check my passenger side mirror before turning right. If I pass a cyclist, I always consider the possibility that he/she may catch up with me.
#19
Idealistic Troublemaker
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Northern California
Posts: 10,879
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
5 Posts
#21
RacingBear
A lobbyist for the Teamsters expressed their opposition by denouncing scofflaw bicyclists and predicting dire consequences for traffic and safety if the bill were enacted. “This bill is vetobait!” he shouted before storming out of the hearing room, indicating the Teamsters plan to lean on Gov. Edmund G. Brown to veto the law if it’s passed.
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 7,048
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 509 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times
in
8 Posts
...Of course, in this case, Driver A did turn Driver B. albeit after the fact. Now she deserves to be treated significantly more harshly. But up until she broke and ran - well, okay, up until she handed over the out-of-date passport, which smells to high heaven - more lenient treatment was appropriate. We can argue about whether probation was enough, but I don't see it as inherently offensive. After all, if we are completely honest with ourselves, sh*t does happen and every one of us who drives has to say "there but for the grace of God go I." ...
I would like to see us move in that direction as regards aggressive (and deadly) behavior directed towards all vulnerable road users. This is the key difference between western Europe and the U.S. They assume a motorist who strikes a vulnerable user was in the fault; we assume the vulnerable user shouldn't have been there. The result is they don't speed around blind curves on narrow roads and find themselves surprised by a legitimate road user. "Stuff" doesn't just "happen". It takes the kind of reckless disregard for others that is commonplace among motorists to make it happen. That can be changed by appropriately severe penalties.
#23
Older I get, faster I was
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: santa cruz
Posts: 654
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Over 50,000 motor vehicle operators and/or passengers die every year on the roadways, just in the US. Our highways are dangerous for all users, not just cyclists. Cyclists, much like motorcyclists (been one of those for decades) do the victim role routinely, forgetting they are not the only ones dying out there.
May the husband RIP and I hope the wife can find a way to move on and not spend her days obsessed with revenge. Her kid/s need a mom, not a vigilante.
May the husband RIP and I hope the wife can find a way to move on and not spend her days obsessed with revenge. Her kid/s need a mom, not a vigilante.
#24
Full Member
Excellent point B. Carfree: "This is the key difference between western Europe and the U.S. They assume a motorist who strikes a vulnerable user was in the fault; we assume the vulnerable user shouldn't have been there."Just look at the reader comments to the Mercury article posted above to bear out the truth of this.
There is a lot of sociopathic behavior that is normalized, such as driving too fast on mountain roads which bicyclists like to frequent. I wonder how much of that is ingrained as "manly" behavior by the incessant [closed road-professional driver] car commercials people see on sports and news shows. What should be normalized in people's minds is that if a road looks good to bike on, you should expect to see bicycles and drive accordingly. Seeing a bicycle shouldn't be a "WHOA, WHAT THE ..." moment for any driver.
There is a lot of sociopathic behavior that is normalized, such as driving too fast on mountain roads which bicyclists like to frequent. I wonder how much of that is ingrained as "manly" behavior by the incessant [closed road-professional driver] car commercials people see on sports and news shows. What should be normalized in people's minds is that if a road looks good to bike on, you should expect to see bicycles and drive accordingly. Seeing a bicycle shouldn't be a "WHOA, WHAT THE ..." moment for any driver.
#25
Crawlin' up, flyin' down
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
Posts: 5,656
Bikes: 1967 Paramount; 1982-ish Ron Cooper; 1978 Eisentraut "A"; two mid-1960s Cinelli Speciale Corsas; and others in various stages of non-rideability.
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1027 Post(s)
Liked 2,528 Times
in
1,058 Posts
. . . .
I would like to see us move in that direction as regards aggressive (and deadly) behavior directed towards all vulnerable road users. This is the key difference between western Europe and the U.S. They assume a motorist who strikes a vulnerable user was in the fault; we assume the vulnerable user shouldn't have been there. The result is they don't speed around blind curves on narrow roads and find themselves surprised by a legitimate road user. "Stuff" doesn't just "happen". It takes the kind of reckless disregard for others that is commonplace among motorists to make it happen. That can be changed by appropriately severe penalties.
I would like to see us move in that direction as regards aggressive (and deadly) behavior directed towards all vulnerable road users. This is the key difference between western Europe and the U.S. They assume a motorist who strikes a vulnerable user was in the fault; we assume the vulnerable user shouldn't have been there. The result is they don't speed around blind curves on narrow roads and find themselves surprised by a legitimate road user. "Stuff" doesn't just "happen". It takes the kind of reckless disregard for others that is commonplace among motorists to make it happen. That can be changed by appropriately severe penalties.
And it isn't at all clear that the woman driver in the incident RedRider pointed out did anything "sociopathic." She hit and killed a cyclist - an awful thing by any measure, and one in which she surely is culpable. That does not mean that she did anything so heinous as you want to believe. We weren't there, and there is no reliable evidence to that she was drunk, high, texting, driving particularly aggressively. Indeed, there is nothing to suggest that she was anything worse than inattentive - bad enough, and I am not saying that that makes everything alright: it doesn't, but it does make a difference in assigning the appropriate level of crimnal punishment. (Again, by turning in an out-of-date passport and fleeing to China, she changed the entire picture, and the level of wrongdoing went up by several orders of magnitude. When she did that, she took herself out of any consideration under my position - I hope she like orange jumpsuits. I'll keep going in the analysis assuming for the sake of argument that she had actually done the right thing by facing the music to make my point.)
That does not mean she does not have to take responsibility for her mistake, criminally and civilly. And I stand by my original argument - if you make that kind of situation and make it hanging offense, you are actively encouraging anyone who hits a cyclist to drive away and leave the cyclist to fend for him- or herself. And more cyclists will die in that situation.
Now I agree with all you said about drinking and driving, and I'd extend it to driving while under the influence of any mind-altering substance or while texting. I also agree that the legal system should deal more harshly with road rage/intimidation types of car-bike encounters. Ditto such accidents caused by unsafe speed, unsafe passing, crowding, throwing things, crossing center lines to play "chicken," and other measurable "aggressive" driving habits. Encouraging better driving (and better, more predictable cycling) is a good thing. But I don't think we want to encouraging people on the moral margins to take the "hit and run" way out in the process.
__________________
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney