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Opioids and personal responsibility

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Opioids and personal responsibility

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Old 09-13-18, 10:51 PM
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Hondo Gravel
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Opioids and personal responsibility

Had a fairly major foot operation about 3 weeks ago and was prescribed pain meds I only took them for 3 days because I really needed them. I got off those nasty meds soon as I could. Try to get them filled after my operation as I was in my vehichle and a family member went to have them filled and they made a fuss about it. Like until they realized I was out in the car fresh from surgery they filled the prescription. Had a routine doctor appointment a he said they are getting really bad about pain meds etc and was irritated about it. So people in severe pain canít get the pain medication they need just to function somewhat normally so they suffer. Because of the knuckleheads that make it into a party drug and get hooked to them. I swear look at all the alcoholics that die from alcohol related illnesses letís crack down on Budweiser and all the tobacco related deaths! What happen to the personal responsibility part in health and pain management? Take as prescribed and listen to what the doctor said! I hate seeing people suffer because they canít get the medication they need because people take no personal responsibility of what they shove down their throats. They are meds that can help many people when used correctly and it gets ruined by a few people that would be abusing something else besides legitimate legal pain medication. Ok I feel better now I accidentally stepped down on my foot cast it hurt bad reminded me it was there I feel better now and I took some Aleve no opioids though I have a full bottle of them.
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Old 09-13-18, 11:25 PM
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https://www.drugwatch.com/featured/o...is-big-pharma/

It is a real problem
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Old 09-13-18, 11:26 PM
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Yes, there is a level of personal responsibility, but the "Opioid Crisis" has pretty huge legal and health implications.

People are literally dying everyday, as a direct cause of opioid overdoses, at an unheard of rate. There's a reason the pharmacy's being difficult, and pharmaceutical companies are in the legal crosshairs.

An interesting thing about opioids I heard, is that they affect the area of the brain that controls breathing and heart rate. Can you imagine being addicted to something as much as were addicted to breathing and pumping blood through our bodies?

I genuinely feel for those that do. And I'm pretty f*ng happy to not be one of them.

There's a few interesting Vice News reports. Here's a short 2-minute one:

Enjoy your pain treatment responsibly..... please!
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Old 09-14-18, 12:01 AM
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I realize there is a serious problem with no easy answer. My ranting took my mind off the pain when I accidentally stepped off on the wrong foot while feeding my cat Hopefully science can produce something to replace opioids. I am missing my natural endorphin high I get from bike riding.
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Old 09-14-18, 04:02 AM
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I hear you, but it has become a monstrous problem and pharmacies must do what Big Pharma refuses to do - give opiods out responsibly and carefully.

Big Pharma puts profit ahead of responsibility again. They are making and distributing far more opioid pills than our country could ever legitimately use, and they know it and do nothing to stop it. When a drug store in some small town with a population of 1000 people are able to order thousands of Oxy pills a week, there is a problem that drug companies should spot rather quickly.

Consider yourself lucky that you were able to get off of them so quickly, because that doesn't seem to be the norm.
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Old 09-14-18, 07:19 AM
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Vitamin I
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Old 09-14-18, 07:29 AM
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I swear look at all the alcoholics that die from alcohol related illnesses let’s crack down on Budweiser and all the tobacco related deaths! What happen to the personal responsibility part in health and pain management?
Saving the few really stupid people who would OD on painkillers if there were made legal (like they were 100 years ago) hardly seems worth all the drug cartels, murders of innocent people, bribes, corruption, gangs, long prison sentences, dead cops, and drive-by shootings we get trying to protect these idiots from themselves.
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Old 09-14-18, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
Hopefully science can produce something to replace opioids.
Hasn't happened yet. Mankind has been unable to produce a painkiller that isn't either opioid-based, or some derivative. It's simply the only thing that works. My wife has severe reactions to any of the synthetics-- so her choices are literally "nothing," or morphine.

Try to fill a prescription for pseudoephedrine sometime. It's a decongestant. You used to be able to buy it over-the-counter as Sudafed and a bunch of others. Now you have to sign a form stating that you will not, under penalty of law, use the pills to make methamphetamine.
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Old 09-14-18, 07:37 AM
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Damn! Foiled again! Those pharmacists think of EVERYTHING!

In reality, that form will let the few people who didn't already know you could make meth with those pills that you can, and get them researching how to do it.

I honestly don't think anyone really wants to win this "drug war". They certainly don't seem to be very serious about it. If these are the solutions that the best minds in our country are coming up with. ... I don't know what to say.

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Old 09-14-18, 08:23 AM
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My g/f suffers from chronic migraines. Opiates are the only meds that somewhat alleviate her suffering.

I pickup her meds occasionally. She has to call the pharmacy ahead of time and they scan my driver's license before I pay. Cameras pointed right at me. Makes one feel like they are engaged in a criminal activity.

She fears the feds will outlaw all opiates. If that occurs, I will likely lose her. Her QOL will be zero.
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Old 09-14-18, 11:28 AM
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I had to get some pseudoephedrine for a nasty cold and could only get from behind the counter at Walmart and as mentioned by the previous poster I had to sign a form and show an ID. I told the clerk speaking like someone that obviously has a bad cold “ great now I can make some meth “ she found no humor in my statement.
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Old 09-14-18, 11:50 AM
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Opiates don't take away the pain, they take away the care. That's exactly why plain ol' aspirine, & other OTC meds don't work any better or worse & it explains why junkies gravitate towards opuates & not aspirine. The devil is in the details though. Opiates actually sensetize the nerves & lower the pain threshold so that when withdrawing the user believes they are feeling pain. It was explained to me that the incoming signal from your body is like that background hiss on a blank audio cassette. In normal people it's nearly imperceptable background noise. In the junkie, during withdrawl, it's like somebody cranked the volume knob on that hiss so that every nerve in your body is perceived to be screaming like a speaker at a rock concert.

I have no expertise on this, I've refused opioids at every turn because...Well, nobody likes being stopped up. But that's the analogy that was explained to me.

Heroine doesn't even look like fun. Why would anyone even try it? Dumb. If you are going to stunt your life, wouldn't you want to pick a fun one at least?
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Old 09-14-18, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
Opiates don't take away the pain, they take away the care. That's exactly why plain ol' aspirine, & other OTC meds don't work any better or worse & it explains why junkies gravitate towards opuates & not aspirine. The devil is in the details though. Opiates actually sensetize the nerves & lower the pain threshold so that when withdrawing the user believes they are feeling pain. It was explained to me that the incoming signal from your body is like that background hiss on a blank audio cassette. In normal people it's nearly imperceptable background noise. In the junkie, during withdrawl, it's like somebody cranked the volume knob on that hiss so that every nerve in your body is perceived to be screaming like a speaker at a rock concert.

I have no expertise on this, I've refused opioids at every turn because...Well, nobody likes being stopped up. But that's the analogy that was explained to me.

Heroine doesn't even look like fun. Why would anyone even try it? Dumb. If you are going to stunt your life, wouldn't you want to pick a fun one at least?
yes the constipation luckily it wasnít too bad this time. I had a hernia op three years ago and the general anesthesia clogged him up bad. After 4 days I could go and it was an event of relief.
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Old 09-14-18, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
I had to get some pseudoephedrine for a nasty cold and could only get from behind the counter at Walmart and as mentioned by the previous poster I had to sign a form and show an ID. I told the clerk speaking like someone that obviously has a bad cold ď great now I can make some meth ď she found no humor in my statement.
Mom goes to Washington every few months for personal reasons, but stocks up on Sudafed whenever she is up there since it is easy to get.

She had surgery recently here in Oregon. I picked up the narcotics for her while she waited in the car. I think she gave me her drivers license and credit card. I don't remember if they also looked at mine (which, of course, has the same family name).

I did, however, also pick up some anti-emetic meds for an acquaintance that also was post op. It took a while, but I got those too. Whew, they were EXPENSIVE, even with insurance.

It is hard to say. I think narcotic addiction is an issue, and many who do get addicted would be better off weaning off the drugs, to start moving, and to let the body heal itself.

On the other hand, I believe there are many drugs that should be over the counter, or perhaps behind the counter, but without prescription. Allow individuals to make the choice in their own health care without demanding they spend hundreds of dollars to get a prescription for stuff that has little abuse potential.

Oh...
And, I could use some good 20mm or so syringes to help with my new Tubeless Tire experiments.
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Old 09-14-18, 01:47 PM
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Farm supply store. The one near me has the vaccinations you can use on your pets to save a vet visit. Plus oddball devices for castrating pigs, and things designed for shoving pills down cow's throats, weird stuff like that.
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Old 09-14-18, 01:57 PM
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This friend of mine got pulled over for some minor traffic violation and the cop saw that there was syringes in the bed of the pickup. The cop freaks out accusing the person of being on drugs without realizing the guy works for a veterinarian and they were cattle syringes if you ever have seen a cattle syringe it obviously isn’t for a human you could calk windows with one of use them for tubeless tire paste it took him awhile to convince the cop he was cold sober and not on drugs. He was just at a cattle ranch giving some shots to some cows. Just too funny but mirrors society’s paranoia.
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Old 09-14-18, 02:06 PM
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I saw an episode of COPS one time, where a guy tried to shoot himself in the head but was unsuccessful. Amazingly, he could still talk, and cop on the scene was accusing him of being on drugs because he saw there was an empty syringe laying on the floor next to him ... until the gunshot victim explained that the paramedics that were treating him left it there.

Same cop then blocks the front door as the paramedics are carrying the the guy on a stretcher out to the ambulance, because he's too busy talking to the COPS cameras. Ridiculous, but pretty revealing.
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Old 09-14-18, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
Opiates don't take away the pain, they take away the care.
Sure hasn't been my experience. I've had a couple bouts with kidney stones that left me in such pain that I couldn't function. At the ER they tried various pain medications that did almost nothing to provide any relief. Finally they switched to morphine and the pain vanished. It certainly wasn't a case of not caring - I was still thinking clearly and very concerned about how they were actually going to eliminate the stone, but the intense pain was gone and I could function normally again. Was on the morphine for almost a week before getting rid of the stone and did get some cold sweats - but never felt the least inclination to take any more morphine once the pain was gone.

I am concerned that the crisis of opioid misuse is making it harder for patients who need it to obtain it. I go backpacking and was concerned after my first kidney stone episode that I might find myself deep in the back country with another stone and a pain level that would make it very hard to hike out. Got a small prescription for morphine to keep in my pack for that kind of emergency. I've never needed to use it but it's nice to know it's there - but I doubt anyone would be willing to give me such a prescription today.
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Old 09-14-18, 09:11 PM
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You seem like you are not prone to excessive or long term use. I guess the effects of sensatization are cumulative. And the reasons people abuse relate to an escape from "pain" actual or perceived are like sand trap..

Your case seems acute and prescribed in an appropriate amount.

I'm not one to question a licensed doctor...or a one time medical event. Especially that of a stranger over the internet.

Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
Sure hasn't been my experience. I've had a couple bouts with kidney stones that left me in such pain that I couldn't function. At the ER they tried various pain medications that did almost nothing to provide any relief. Finally they switched to morphine and the pain vanished. It certainly wasn't a case of not caring - I was still thinking clearly and very concerned about how they were actually going to eliminate the stone, but the intense pain was gone and I could function normally again. Was on the morphine for almost a week before getting rid of the stone and did get some cold sweats - but never felt the least inclination to take any more morphine once the pain was gone.

I am concerned that the crisis of opioid misuse is making it harder for patients who need it to obtain it. I go backpacking and was concerned after my first kidney stone episode that I might find myself deep in the back country with another stone and a pain level that would make it very hard to hike out. Got a small prescription for morphine to keep in my pack for that kind of emergency. I've never needed to use it but it's nice to know it's there - but I doubt anyone would be willing to give me such a prescription today.

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Old 09-15-18, 02:46 AM
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I put the blame for the opioid epidemic fairly and squarely on doctors, who prescribe opioids for the slightest of pains when Tylenol etc would, in the majority of cases, be adequate.
Similarly, over-prescribing of antibiotics has caused massive problems of drug resistance. Only in America - well, mostly.
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Old 09-15-18, 03:11 AM
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
Hasn't happened yet. Mankind has been unable to produce a painkiller that isn't either opioid-based, or some derivative. It's simply the only thing that works. My wife has severe reactions to any of the synthetics-- so her choices are literally "nothing," or morphine.
(Warning: Lengthy rant ahead.)

Yup. There's a reason why the body evolved opiate receptors. It works. And most people do not abuse opiates to get high or because they became addicted. But junkies ruin everything.

For years, Tramadol and hydrocodone were considered safe, low strength opiates, readily prescribed by family doctors for patients with chronic pain. Most of my elderly family members used those for years to cope with degenerative arthritis and chronic pain. They were too old to be candidates for surgery and physical therapy is of little value to people whose joints are bone-on-bone. Not a single family member who took Tramadol or hydrocodone was "addicted" or abused it. Most of them took less than the prescribed amount.

But due to the abusive practices of the maker of oxycontin, a few corrupt doctors, and, more recently, black market fentanyl from China, now the credulous and hysterical disinformation media and government ninnies have demonized perfectly useful, low risk pain meds like Tramadol and hydrocodone. So now hundreds of thousands of people are suffering from chronic pain because of completely unrelated substances and junkies.

Can you tell I'm pissed off? I've worked in health care and been a caregiver for three consecutive elderly family members, so I have more experience with this stuff than most folks who concoct these paranoid reports.

And when I was hit by a car in May, with a broken and dislocated shoulder, the hospital authorized a 10 day supply of hydrocodone. No refills, period. That bottle of 30 pills lasted me six weeks because I used it only when absolutely necessary, usually at night so I could get some sleep.

After six weeks I went another two weeks with nothing stronger than ibuprofen and I didn't sleep more than an hour a night for two weeks. The shoulder pain was consistently level 7-8. After two weeks I was desperate.

When I asked for either a single refill or a local anti-inflammatory injection, they referred me to their contractor pain management clinic. The soonest that clinic could fit me in was more than four months later. When I asked why it took so long, they said "Take it or leave it" and hung up on me.

So I found my own solutions.

I found only one type of topical analgesic that was consistently effective: Stopain roll-on. It's just strong menthol with MSM as a transdermal carrier. It works within minutes and lasts about an hour or so. One version of Biofreeze and one version of Blu Emu have similar ingredients. Most lack the MSM and without a transdermal carrier to get the active ingredient through the skin barrier we might as well slather chicken grease or butter on our skin. Ted's Pain Cream has MSM but takes days to work with a cumulative effect. Too slow for practical applications.

Based on the experiences of Floyd Landis, I tried CBD. But it did nothing for that level of chronic pain. However it did help with nausea (my thyroid also failed suddenly over the summer and I was having trouble eating, swallowing and keeping food down. I lost 10 lbs in two weeks and wasn't trying to lose weight). And CBD seems to offer some mild mood enhancement although I suspect most praise for CBD is based on a placebo effect.

CBD may be a useful substitute for ibuprofen for pain up to level 5 on a scale of 10, but beyond 5 we're getting into the kind of pain that Tramadol/Ultram was specifically designed to resolve. And unlike older opiates, it has low risk of respiratory depression or reduced peristalsis that results in constipation.

There is an alternative that also works on the natural opiate receptors -- mitragyna speciosa, commonly called kratom in the US, ketum in some parts of the world. The red vein variants are very effective analgesics (Bali, Borneo, Elephant Ear, any red vein variety), comparable to the low strength opioids like Tramadol or Ultram. For now, pending FDA decision, it's legal to obtain in most states although sellers cannot advertise it for consumption. They have to dance around the topic and offer it as a topical, potpourri, etc.

After two weeks with hardly any sleep back in late June I tried red vein Bali kratom. I took 2 capsules, approximately two grams. I slept soundly for the first time in two month since I was hit by a car. Even hydrocodone didn't have the same relaxing effect, although hydrocodone and Tramadol are more effective pain relievers. No hangover or lingering undesirable side effects, no craving to continue using it unnecessarily. Some folks recommend taking 5-7 grams but I haven't found that to be necessary. It takes very little to be an effective analgesic. Since June I've used it two or three times a week when the shoulder and neck pain are beyond what I can handle with ibuprofen, topical analgesics, massaging, cold/warm packs and soaking in a warm bath with Epsom salts. And I don't need to beg for it from a medical provider who's more worried about losing his license than for the welfare of his patients. The price is very reasonable too, much less expensive than CBD.

Unfortunately kratom is widely regarded in the US as a "recreational drug," which will probably result in negative hyperbole by the credulous infotainment media and government ninnies. The "recreational" moniker seriously mis-characterizes it. Mitragyna speciosa is botanically related to the coffee plant and the green vein variety is a mild stimulant, comparable to caffeine. It's less effective as an analgesic -- subjectively I'd compare the effect to 600-800 mg ibuprofen with two or thee cups of strong coffee. Not bad but hardly recreational.

The red vein varieties are much more effective analgesics, and mildly sedating, about like taking 1-5 mg of melatonin or valerian root -- over the counter sleep aids in the US. As a sleep aid kratom is less sedating than other common OTC meds including Benadryl and Nyquil. Around 1-5 grams is comparable to a single Tramadol or hydrocodone.

There are a few minor risks associated with kratom:
  • It lacks the sophisticated formulation of Tramadol, so it slows down peristalsis like loperamide and unrefined opium products. In fact mitragyna speciosa is used in some parts of Asia to relieve diarrhea. It's essential to take a stool softener and drink plenty of liquids when using kratom. Same as we would with prolonged use of prescription oxycontin, codeine, morphine for cancer patients in hospice, etc. It's just a normal precaution for anything that slows peristalsis.
  • Because it's an herbal product harvested throughout Asia without consistent standards there's the same risk of salmonella, e-coli and other icky stuff associated with any raw herbal or vegetable product. However there are more reports of dysentery from Romaine lettuce than from kratom. To be safe, kratom (usually available as a dried powder) should be heated to 140 degrees for 30-60 seconds, which is high enough to kill the common hazards. Steeping in hot tea, hot chocolate, coffee, etc., is good enough. And it's a peculiar taste, so it needs some stronger tasting stuff to mask or augment the flavor. It takes like green leaves with a slightly bitter and cloying flavor. Strong chai tea or other strongly spicy tea is a good partner to kratom. To me, it's a bit cloying and unpleasant in hot chocolate or coffee. Lots of honey or sweetener helps offset the bitterness.
  • It should not be combined with any other prescription pain med or alcohol. All of the documented overdoses "blamed" on kratom were actually due to abuse of prescription opiates *and* alcohol.
Frankly, Tramadol/Ultram is better and safer. It was developed to solve the common problems associated with other opiates: addiction, slowed peristalsis, respiratory distress, tolerance requiring larger doses. It was thoroughly researched and vetted in Europe and for years it was considered the gold standard, the magic bullet among low strength opiates that could be prescribed with minimal medical supervision. But, as I keep saying, junkies ruin everything. I haven't found a single credible report of an overdose or death attributable to taking normally prescribed Tramadol/Ultram. Every single overdose or death documented that I've read was due to patients taking massive amounts of Tramadol/Ultram and mixing it with other drugs and/or alcohol.

But dumb kids and junkies will try to catch a buzz from swallowing a bottle of OTC Robitussin, or huffing Freon (wish I was joking about that but as a newspaper reported I covered the deaths of a couple of teenagers who died huffing Freon in the 1980s). Currently the stupidest high I've heard of is taking massive amounts of loperamide, a common OTC anti-diarrheal. Some idiots discovered it's somewhat related to morphine so they thought they could get high. It mostly ends up with impacted colons and no discernible buzz. Like I said, junkies ruin everything.

There are all kinds of OTC meds, including generic Nyquil, that are more dangerous than kratom. All the deaths blamed on kratom -- and there are very few -- turned out to be due to overdoses of real opiates like fentanyl, heroin, Tramadol or hydrocodone, while also drinking alcohol. The kratom was just along for the ride and had little or no impact on the overdoses. They could just as well have blamed root beer or yogurt.

Try to fill a prescription for pseudoephedrine sometime. It's a decongestant. You used to be able to buy it over-the-counter as Sudafed and a bunch of others. Now you have to sign a form stating that you will not, under penalty of law, use the pills to make methamphetamine.
Yup, another of my pet peeves. I've had chronic sinus headaches for most of my life. Pseudoephedrine works better than anything else. Phenylephrine is absolutely useless -- worse than useless, it's also an anti-cholinergic that can worsen dementia in vulnerable people. The only thing phenylephrine is good for is a topical application for hemorrhoids -- it's a common ingredient in some versions of Preparation H and other ointments.

If mitragyna speciosa ever is regulated, I hope it will be restricted only in the same way as Sudafed -- for purchase only by adults, with ID and signature to minimize the risk of abuse. It has a lot of potential as an analgesic for pain beyond what ibuprofen can handle, without getting into the stigma of prescription opiates.
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Old 09-15-18, 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted by CAT7RDR View Post
My g/f suffers from chronic migraines. Opiates are the only meds that somewhat alleviate her suffering.

I pickup her meds occasionally. She has to call the pharmacy ahead of time and they scan my driver's license before I pay. Cameras pointed right at me. Makes one feel like they are engaged in a criminal activity.

She fears the feds will outlaw all opiates. If that occurs, I will likely lose her. Her QOL will be zero.
I suffered from excruciating headaches since childhood, and only in my 50s did it begin to subside in frequency and severity. I've seen a lot of doctors, neurologists and picked up a lot of info and experience along the way.

Opiates are absolutely not effective at relieving migraine pain. If it's a migraine, opiates will barely help. If opiates do help with an excruciating headache, it's not a migraine. It may be a cluster headache or trigeminal neuralgia, both of which are equally excruciating but more receptive to opiates and other analgesics.

It's very difficult to distinguish between these three types of headaches because they all feel like unholy hell. And even some neurologists aren't certain.

The most effective migraine relief meds are certain tricyclics, Imitrex and similar meds, beta blockers and calcium channel blockers for some patients (common blood pressure meds like metoprolol), and occasionally the obsolete ergotamine derivatives like caffergot. For some folks migraines can be prevented or minimized in severity by valproic acide/Depakote, Wellbutrin and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors. Some folks even report that over the counter melatonin and valerian root can help. But there's a lot of guesswork and experimenting involved, so find a sympathetic neurologist.

If it's a cluster headache or trigeminal neuralgia, it may help to take a decongestant. Try Sudafed or generic pseudoephedrine, or oral asthma med like ephedrine/guaifenesin (expectorant that loosen mucous). Also try nasal spray decongestants. Hot caffeinated beverages like coffee, tea, etc., can help as an ergogenic supplement. The theory is that reducing pressure on the nerves in the face and scalp can reduce or eliminate the pain associated with cluster headaches and trigeminal neuralgia.

In the worst cases a local anesthetic like lidocaine or xylocaine can be injected into the scalp, under the facial skin or even into the gums. Sounds weird, but that's exactly how a dentist relieved one of the worst bouts I've ever had with trigeminal neuralgia. It's one of the few times in my adult life when I was completely pain free above the neck for several hours. Before the injection I was in so much pain I'd have jumped in front of train if it had lasted much longer.

For similar reasons some neurologists have experimented with botox injections to relieve nerve pain in the face, neck and scalp.

Also, try Stopain Migraine roll-on, gel or cream. It's amazing stuff, verified by published scientific studies -- not just patient anecdotes. Costs only $12 or less, and works quickly. They recommend applying it only to the sides of the neck and behind the ears, but it can be applied to the face over the forehead, over the sinuses, etc., but be extremely careful to keep it away from the eyes -- don't rub the eyes, etc. It will work better, but if it gets in the eyes it'll sting like fire for a few minutes.

And I don't mean to minimize the agony your girlfriend is experiencing. It's real. I know from lfelong experience. But if opiates help, it's probably not migraine. And cluster headaches and trigeminal neuralgia are just as bad, if not worse. Opiates can help with those.

Also, take a look at my lengthy post above about kratom -- mitragyna speciosa. If your girlfriend is unable to get the prescription opiates she needs, try a red vein kratom like Bali, Borneo or Elephant Ear. These are very affordable and can be mail ordered discretely. It's legal in most states, at least until the FDA decides what to do. They proposed a ban a few years ago but relented after protests from chronic pain sufferers, including military veterans, and doctors who said they wanted more time to research kratom. If it's a matter of life and death -- because there's a reason why cluster headaches and trigeminal neuralgia are sometimes called "suicide headaches" -- then kratom may literally be a life saver.

Best wishes!
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Old 09-15-18, 03:56 AM
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
Opiates don't take away the pain, they take away the care. That's exactly why plain ol' aspirine, & other OTC meds don't work any better or worse & it explains why junkies gravitate towards opuates & not aspirine. The devil is in the details though. Opiates actually sensetize the nerves & lower the pain threshold so that when withdrawing the user believes they are feeling pain. It was explained to me that the incoming signal from your body is like that background hiss on a blank audio cassette. In normal people it's nearly imperceptable background noise. In the junkie, during withdrawl, it's like somebody cranked the volume knob on that hiss so that every nerve in your body is perceived to be screaming like a speaker at a rock concert.

I have no expertise on this, I've refused opioids at every turn because...Well, nobody likes being stopped up. But that's the analogy that was explained to me.

Heroine doesn't even look like fun. Why would anyone even try it? Dumb. If you are going to stunt your life, wouldn't you want to pick a fun one at least?
Absolutely incorrect. This isn't based on anecdotes or guesswork. This is science and research. Google around for some basic explanations about the body's opioid receptors and why and how this stuff works.

Opium poppies, mitragyna speciosa and a few other plants work on the body's opioid receptors entirely differently from the effects of anti-inflammatories like aspirin and ibuprofen, steroids, and differently yet again from the effects of cannabis and other plants on the endocannabinoid system receptors.

Despite the misrepresentation of the issue of "drug" use and abuse by the credulous disinformation media and government, most folks who suffer from pain do not abuse medications. The vast majority of people throughout history use these only to the extent needed to function and return to normal life. Otherwise nearly the entire planet would be dominated by junkies. This isn't the case.

A side effect of some substances that relieve pain may also be due to psychological and emotional effects. For example, some research papers published on the NCBI/NIH site regarding the use of cannabis products indicate that CBD and THC are not particularly effective pain relievers, certainly nowhere near as effective as opiates. However THC does appear to be effective at reducing stress and anxiety, which can exacerbate real physical pain. CBD and THC are also effective at relieving nausea, enhancing appetite, and encouraging patients with cancer, terminal illnesses and chronic pain to eat enough to strengthen the body and cope with pain. They're effective supplements and adjuncts to pain relief. But not effective pain relievers by themselves.

On the flip side, opiates tend to reduce appetite and interfere with digestion. There is only one serious physical danger associated with opiates -- respiratory depression. That's it. The next most critical side effect is reducing peristalsis -- digestion -- which usually results in constipation. Not immediately fatal, but very uncomfortable. If neglected it can lead to serious illness, but not in the same risk category as respiratory depression. This is why Tramadol/Ultram was so effective. It had reduced risk of respiratory depression, reduced problems with constipation, lower risk of addiction, lower risk of reducing appetite. Unfortunately it's now been demonized along with every other opiate.

The irony is that the greatest risk right now is from black market Chinese fentanyl, not from oxycontin and certainly not from Tramadol or hydrocodone. Even heroin pales in comparison with fentanyl as a risk, and it's not the approved manufacturing or fentanyl used by medical professionals, but the black market stuff coming from China. It is so potent and so poorly regulated that an amount equal to only a grain or two of sugar or salt may be enough to kill, through respiratory depression.

But you'll rarely hear this from the popular media or government because they oversimplify everything in the pursuit of ad revenue and fear based control agendas.
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Old 09-15-18, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Giacomo 1 View Post
I hear you, but it has become a monstrous problem and pharmacies must do what Big Pharma refuses to do - give opiods out responsibly and carefully.

Big Pharma puts profit ahead of responsibility again. They are making and distributing far more opioid pills than our country could ever legitimately use, and they know it and do nothing to stop it. When a drug store in some small town with a population of 1000 people are able to order thousands of Oxy pills a week, there is a problem that drug companies should spot rather quickly.

Consider yourself lucky that you were able to get off of them so quickly, because that doesn't seem to be the norm.
Big pharma has the responsible to put the warning label on what they sell. After that, its up to the individual to make their own decisions
Originally Posted by CAT7RDR View Post
My g/f suffers from chronic migraines. Opiates are the only meds that somewhat alleviate her suffering.

I pickup her meds occasionally. She has to call the pharmacy ahead of time and they scan my driver's license before I pay. Cameras pointed right at me. Makes one feel like they are engaged in a criminal activity.

She fears the feds will outlaw all opiates. If that occurs, I will likely lose her. Her QOL will be zero.
Then it will go underground along with all the other illegal drugs. Drug laws don't stop people from using drugs.
Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
Hasn't happened yet. Mankind has been unable to produce a painkiller that isn't either opioid-based, or some derivative. It's simply the only thing that works. My wife has severe reactions to any of the synthetics-- so her choices are literally "nothing," or morphine.

Try to fill a prescription for pseudoephedrine sometime. It's a decongestant. You used to be able to buy it over-the-counter as Sudafed and a bunch of others. Now you have to sign a form stating that you will not, under penalty of law, use the pills to make methamphetamine.
A goofy law since its less potent than aspirin. Its just used as an precursor to harsher drugs. The equivalent of placing a sales tax on an item. Drug dealers consider it the price of doing business.
Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
Sure hasn't been my experience. I've had a couple bouts with kidney stones that left me in such pain that I couldn't function. At the ER they tried various pain medications that did almost nothing to provide any relief. Finally they switched to morphine and the pain vanished. It certainly wasn't a case of not caring - I was still thinking clearly and very concerned about how they were actually going to eliminate the stone, but the intense pain was gone and I could function normally again. Was on the morphine for almost a week before getting rid of the stone and did get some cold sweats - but never felt the least inclination to take any more morphine once the pain was gone.

I am concerned that the crisis of opioid misuse is making it harder for patients who need it to obtain it. I go backpacking and was concerned after my first kidney stone episode that I might find myself deep in the back country with another stone and a pain level that would make it very hard to hike out. Got a small prescription for morphine to keep in my pack for that kind of emergency. I've never needed to use it but it's nice to know it's there - but I doubt anyone would be willing to give me such a prescription today.
That's exactly what its doing. I've never had a drug addition problem and still have to fight with my medical provider to get the pain relief medication I need. I have chronic back and shoulder pain and the pain can get so bad I can't function. I don't take it because of any addiction, I take it only when I'm paralyzed in pain and really need it. I'm frankly getting sick and tired of all the lecture because of what drug addicts misusing opioids are doing.
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Old 09-15-18, 06:08 AM
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Thanks Canklecat for the well thought out reply. A lot of info to digest and I will spend more time reviewing after my ride.

She is in Pain Management and does receive Botox and Imitrex,

Stopain Migraine and Kratom I have not heard of but will investigate.
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