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Osteoporosis, just FYI

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Osteoporosis, just FYI

Old 01-31-19, 01:00 PM
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Osteoporosis, just FYI

I had a lower body DEXA scan a few days ago, just getting a baseline during my treatment for PMR. At 73, I had assumed I had very good bone strength as I've lifted weights almost all my life, have a good diet, and have never broken a bone. But no. Osteoporosis in pelvis and upper femur, 3.3 standard deviations below perfect. Osteopenia in other places. Doctor has no idea why, but put me on alendronate. This makes me feel weird, like I should take care or worry or something. Not my style. I'm just going to carry on and hope for the best. Wouldn't hurt to get a scan though if you can get it paid for.
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Old 01-31-19, 01:06 PM
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Sorry to hear that.

It does make one wonder...
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Old 02-06-19, 02:17 PM
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Endocrinologist required me to have a DEXA because of my bilateral orchiectomy/prostate cancer with results indicating Osteo in certain locations. Just another physical condition that can exist WITHOUT INDICATIONS resulting in an injury that could have been avoided through better diet/supplements.
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Old 02-07-19, 12:28 AM
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Ditto, endocrinologist this week told me I need to schedule an appointment with nuclear med for a bone scan. My thyroid levels are still off since half my thyroid was removed in November. They're concerned about osteoporosis since there's a family history, including thyroid problems (my mom, and grandmother on my dad's side). And my younger brother seemed to break bones just doing ordinary stuff.

I said, yeah, but I don't have any history of bone problems.

Doctor said, what about the six fractured vertebrae in 2001 from a car wreck? The broken shoulder from getting hit by a car last year?

Oh, yeah... that. Well...

At least she read my chart.
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Old 02-07-19, 12:38 AM
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Consider supplementing with vitamin k2. Or eat a pack of natto everyday. I used to eat natto. Now I just take 300mg of k2 mk7 daily.
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Old 02-08-19, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Wattsup View Post
Consider supplementing with vitamin k2. Or eat a pack of natto everyday. I used to eat natto. Now I just take 300mg of k2 mk7 daily.
Combined D3/K2 liquid under tongue for better uptake.

found some mk4 and mk7 info -----

https://www.naturalmedicinejournal.c...-menaquinone-7

Last edited by OldTryGuy; 02-08-19 at 07:20 AM.
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Old 02-09-19, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by OldTryGuy View Post
Combined D3/K2 liquid under tongue for better uptake.

found some mk4 and mk7 info -----

https://www.naturalmedicinejournal.c...-menaquinone-7
That's for trying to lower the sedimentation rate associated with and symptomatic of RA. I don't see that having anything to do with increasing the activity of osteoblasts.

My rheumo gave me a quick course in bone. Bone is constantly in the process of renewal, called remodeling. Bones completely remodel themselves about every 10 years. So it's slow, but it happens, and happens in two separate processes: removal and replacement, called resorption and ossification. Reducing resorption and increasing ossification will strengthen bones.

My rheumo prescribed alandronate to reduce resorption. She said that while vitamin D deficiency reduces the activity of osteoblasts and thus ossification, the effect of more D beyond deficiency is basically unknown. She said that calcium supplements have been proven ineffective and are actually counterproductive, as they increase the risk of heart disease. It is thought that they are ineffective because the big calcium dump is cleared from the bloodstream so quickly. Calcium-containing food OTOH is effective. Cheese contains more calcium than one might think. Many vegetables contain calcium. Sardines with the bones are good. Etc. Look it up.

IGF-1 is associated with osteoblast activity, so anything that'll increase IGF-1 might help with ossification.

Anything that stresses your bones a lot helps with ossification, basically enough stress to equal about 10% of the breaking strength of the bone in question. So heavy weights and particularly plyometrics or anything where you pull big Gs on the bones in question. If I squat 225, that's only 2.5 Gs, not all that great, remembering that just standing there is 1 G. Jumping down from a height of 2' might create a 3.5g force. it's hard to calculate because the rate of deceleration is highly variable depending on shoes, surface, and knee flexion.

I doubt that walking or even usual running does much. Bone density in runners has been shown to be no better than in the sedentary. And cyclists are prime examples of athletic bone loss. That would be me.

That's all I know about it right now. My rheumo said to have another DEXA in 4-5 years.
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Old 12-01-22, 10:43 AM
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I didn't really believe I had a problem, but bone scans, bone fractures, and endocrinologists convinced me otherwise.
Osteoporosis in my spine and osteopenia in my pelvis. No risk factors except for family history with my mom.
Doctors talked me into Forteo and took my first injection today - every day for two years... photos will help with my motivation, but I'm a compliant guy and the injection is pretty easy.


Well, this makes me feel better.
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Old 12-01-22, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
That's for trying to lower the sedimentation rate associated with and symptomatic of RA. I don't see that having anything to do with increasing the activity of osteoblasts.

My rheumo gave me a quick course in bone. Bone is constantly in the process of renewal, called remodeling. Bones completely remodel themselves about every 10 years. So it's slow, but it happens, and happens in two separate processes: removal and replacement, called resorption and ossification. Reducing resorption and increasing ossification will strengthen bones.

My rheumo prescribed alandronate to reduce resorption. She said that while vitamin D deficiency reduces the activity of osteoblasts and thus ossification, the effect of more D beyond deficiency is basically unknown. She said that calcium supplements have been proven ineffective and are actually counterproductive, as they increase the risk of heart disease. It is thought that they are ineffective because the big calcium dump is cleared from the bloodstream so quickly. Calcium-containing food OTOH is effective. Cheese contains more calcium than one might think. Many vegetables contain calcium. Sardines with the bones are good. Etc. Look it up.

IGF-1 is associated with osteoblast activity, so anything that'll increase IGF-1 might help with ossification.

Anything that stresses your bones a lot helps with ossification, basically enough stress to equal about 10% of the breaking strength of the bone in question. So heavy weights and particularly plyometrics or anything where you pull big Gs on the bones in question. If I squat 225, that's only 2.5 Gs, not all that great, remembering that just standing there is 1 G. Jumping down from a height of 2' might create a 3.5g force. it's hard to calculate because the rate of deceleration is highly variable depending on shoes, surface, and knee flexion.

I doubt that walking or even usual running does much. Bone density in runners has been shown to be no better than in the sedentary. And cyclists are prime examples of athletic bone loss. That would be me.

That's all I know about it right now. My rheumo said to have another DEXA in 4-5 years.
Great summary, CFB!

I am worried too, being old and skinny and generally unwilling to decelerate my skeleton due to degenerative spine disease, which has already caused me spinal cord damage and big surgery. I may try to talk my PCP into a DEXA this winter or pay the 200 bucks OOP and get a body comp at the same time.

BTW, erythrocyte sedimentation rate is just a laboratory marker in inflammatory diseases.
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Old 12-01-22, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
That's for trying to lower the sedimentation rate associated with and symptomatic of RA. I don't see that having anything to do with increasing the activity of osteoblasts.

My rheumo gave me a quick course in bone. Bone is constantly in the process of renewal, called remodeling. Bones completely remodel themselves about every 10 years. So it's slow, but it happens, and happens in two separate processes: removal and replacement, called resorption and ossification. Reducing resorption and increasing ossification will strengthen bones.

My rheumo prescribed alandronate to reduce resorption. She said that while vitamin D deficiency reduces the activity of osteoblasts and thus ossification, the effect of more D beyond deficiency is basically unknown. She said that calcium supplements have been proven ineffective and are actually counterproductive, as they increase the risk of heart disease. It is thought that they are ineffective because the big calcium dump is cleared from the bloodstream so quickly. Calcium-containing food OTOH is effective. Cheese contains more calcium than one might think. Many vegetables contain calcium. Sardines with the bones are good. Etc. Look it up.

IGF-1 is associated with osteoblast activity, so anything that'll increase IGF-1 might help with ossification.

Anything that stresses your bones a lot helps with ossification, basically enough stress to equal about 10% of the breaking strength of the bone in question. So heavy weights and particularly plyometrics or anything where you pull big Gs on the bones in question. If I squat 225, that's only 2.5 Gs, not all that great, remembering that just standing there is 1 G. Jumping down from a height of 2' might create a 3.5g force. it's hard to calculate because the rate of deceleration is highly variable depending on shoes, surface, and knee flexion.

I doubt that walking or even usual running does much. Bone density in runners has been shown to be no better than in the sedentary. And cyclists are prime examples of athletic bone loss. That would be me.

That's all I know about it right now. My rheumo said to have another DEXA in 4-5 years.
So here I am, about 3 years later (thanks, MoAlpha) and having had another Dexa scan. The places where my bones were worst, qualifying as osteoporotic, are now about 4% better. Doesn't seem like a whole lot better to me, but the numbers say now I'm "osteopenic." So I guess that's good. I've been on alendronate the whole time. My doc says she'll give me one or two more years on it, then stop, as too long a period on that drug can cause bones to become brittle. Resorption occurs so that bones don't do that. Too little resorption for too long becomes a problem. She says 5 years on alendronate is a good limit.

I would like to mention once again that I passed out on my rollers a few weeks ago and hit the floor hard (and limp) and didn't break anything. Maybe I'm not all that bad off, or maybe one always wants to hit the pavement limp. Hard to say.
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Old 12-01-22, 12:57 PM
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Im a small-framed woman with a family history so I started getting DEXA scans with menopause. Reluctantly I started alendronate when the osteopenia turned to osteoporosis. No side effects and after 3 years I am very happy the osteoporosis is stable. Last week I took a bad spill while hiking on hard ground and no broken bones! I dont plan to change any activities, maybe just try to be more careful.😂 No, the biking is not helpful and neither is swimming but they have so many other benefits. I will just make sure to do my weights and jumping and other bone health activities.
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Old 12-01-22, 06:59 PM
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Vas is der PMR?

GM
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Old 12-01-22, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by gringomojado View Post
Vas is der PMR?

GM
ist Rheuma

Cmo es que un tipo gringomojado parla tedesco?

Not sure why, but RA is a factor in osteoporosis.
Here is a fracture estimator based on bone density and history:
https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/FRAX/tool.aspx?country=9


That's my data.
18% chance of a major spine fracture an 6% chance of a hip fracture in the next 10 years.
After a couple years of Forteo I'm hoping that'll come down to background odds.

Last edited by DiabloScott; 12-01-22 at 10:12 PM.
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Old 12-02-22, 12:15 AM
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Do you drink coffee or consume dairy products? Each acidify the body. Among other bad dietary habits.

you body produces less bicarb as we age.

calcium is then leached from your bones as an alternate way to buffer the acidity
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