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LOOK!! This is why Basso,Ulrich Out Of Tour:Drugs!!

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LOOK!! This is why Basso,Ulrich Out Of Tour:Drugs!!

Old 06-29-06, 01:53 PM
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LOOK!! This is why Basso,Ulrich Out Of Tour:Drugs!!

The Court of Arbitration for Sport has given the Astana-Wurth team the go-ahead to race in the Tour de France. "CAS has rejected the request of ASO to stop the team Astana-Würth from starting the Tour de France," read the CAS official statement.
...
Spanish newspaper El Pais has published more names among the 58 riders involved in Operación Puerto. The list, which comes from the Spanish Civil Guard's official report on the doping probe, contains several big names, and there is a strong possibility that the Tour de France could be raced with a very different list of favourites.

Cyclingnews sources say that Spanish authorities have obtained blood tests from last year's Tour and compared them to the names on this list in order to confirm the matches to the blood found in the blood bags.

El Pais has alleged that Jan Ullrich, Roberto Heras, Oscar Sevilla, Joseba Beloki, Santiago Botero, Santi Pérez, Tyler Hamilton, Quique Gutierrez and Angel Edo are all mentioned in the 500 page report that will be delivered to the Spanish Secretary of State for Sport, Jaime Lissavetsky. In addition, Spanish radio Cadena Ser mentions that Ivan Basso and Rabobank riders Denis Menchov and Juan-Antonio Flecha are on the list. In total, 22 riders scheduled to take part in the Tour de France are on the list of 58. All the riders questioned by journalists so far have denied any involvement in the affair.


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...n06/jun29news3


Edit: thanks everyone for your patience...The thread is back and running, and it is going to be stickied to make sure that the conversation is consolidated to one thread.

Thanks alot!
hi565

Last edited by Helmet Head; 06-29-06 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 06-29-06, 05:23 PM
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Several sources indicate that the official information on the 58 (or 56) riders implicated in the scandal will be available by Friday, June 30, at 9.30am European time, when the Spanish judge will release the investigation documents, already believed to have been handed out to the Spanish minister for Sport, Jaime Lissavetzky. Of those named, a total of 22 cyclists are rumoured to be on the Tour de France start list. "Those riders named in the dossier will not be allowed to start," said Patrick Lefévčre, president of the professional team's association AIGCP and manager of team Quick.Step.

If Lefévčre is right, and the leaked reports are accurate, Basso and Ullrich will not start!!!
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Old 06-29-06, 05:30 PM
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good, this is a decent step towards cleaning up the elite pro racing mess
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Old 06-29-06, 05:56 PM
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If all those guys doped...there is no way armstrong didn't.
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Old 06-29-06, 07:32 PM
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Armstrong is probably dirty as can be, in MY opinion. Again, ive posted this before, find me someone who's never ever even heard of EPO or any performance enhancing drugs that can put out 450 watts for an hour or about 6.7-6.9 watts per kilo, it wont happen. You dont get to those kind of power levels naturally, nor has anyone EVER been able to sustain them for more than a few weeks. Then there's the INCREASING hemacrit levels DURING a stage race, explain that !! Even Armstrong has pulled off that miracle. Sorry, it doesnt fly, it defies all logic and convention. Someone want to explain away why ALL the top race teams have a huge supply of syringes and IV equipment around? What? Just to supply fluids after each stage? Please, im not buying it. I would think after the docs showing Hamilton's rather intense doping schedule some doubters might think twice. We've all seen athletes claim not doping then turn around and either get caught or die from the side effects, hardly an isolated case of just a few here and there. Are there clean riders, sure, Im sure some of the pack fodder doesnt dope, or not regularly, why? cause its damn expensive, about $1100-$2000 per month for an HGH and EPO program, some teams and riders simply cant afford it, some U23 guys only make $10k a year !! You get into the big leagues where guys have million dollar plus sponsors and good salaries and its chump change.
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Old 06-29-06, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by pedex
Then there's the INCREASING hemacrit levels DURING a stage race, explain that !! Even Armstrong has pulled off that miracle. Sorry, it doesnt fly, it defies all logic and convention.
Actually, if you become dehydrated over time, your hematocrit will go up. I had a patient who had a hematocrit of 47 until I rehydrated her--then it went to 36. Overnight.

I'm also no exercise physiologist, but there may be some physiologic effect of going all-out for 3 weeks that would lead to a hematocrit rise. But that's just guessing--I have nothing to back that one up.

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Old 06-29-06, 08:27 PM
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Dr. Pete is right on. Dehydration will raise your hematocrit. I don't know how they can possibly rehydrate each day and start again the next day.
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Old 06-29-06, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by pathdoc
Dr. Pete is right on. Dehydration will raise your hematocrit. I don't know how they can possibly rehydrate each day and start again the next day.
They couldn't race day after day unless they could re-hydrate.
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Old 06-29-06, 08:41 PM
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Well, they do these tests usually about the same time each day--end of a stage plus some random tests thrown in, and over the course of a stage race their hemacrit generally has a downward trend, it slowly drops, then every once in awhile you get some that all of a sudden jump 10-12 points--and usually before a TT May or may not be an obvious pattern, ive never been able to get enough data to plot all the riders, they dont publish this stuff that much. Call it a working theory of mine I just find it hard to deny when you watch a guy go for like 2 weeks and starts at like 49.x then drops to the low 40's to high 30's then shows up all of sudden back at 48 or 49.x, micro dosing EPO has already been shown to work and avoid detection most of the time, still a crap shoot.
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Old 06-30-06, 02:03 AM
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LOOK!! This is why Basso,Ulrich Out Of Tour:Drugs!!

whoa, now this is entertainment
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Old 06-30-06, 02:06 AM
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LOL

" T-Mobile has suspended Jan Ullrich, Oscar Sevilla and Rudy Pevenage in the wake of the Operacion Puerto affair. The three were implicated in the doping scandal as being clients of Dr Eufemiano Fuentes. None of them will take part in the Tour de France."

I don't see anything about Basso being out?
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Old 06-30-06, 02:12 AM
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http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...n06/jun30news2


csc: Ivan Basso

If its true I think this will also mean that Simoni won the Giro!!
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Last edited by fruitless; 06-30-06 at 02:19 AM.
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Old 06-30-06, 02:12 AM
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dammit! Basso better be gone too! Or this WILL be a yawner
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Old 06-30-06, 02:13 AM
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Basso hasn't been withdrawn, he's been implicated.
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Old 06-30-06, 02:14 AM
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Yes, those were just lists of people who are implicated. Only Ullrich (and Sevilla) are officially out for now. I suspect Basso won't be starting the Tour either, though.
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Old 06-30-06, 02:18 AM
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. . .ok, T-mobile suspends hijo rudicio and rudy, but it sounds like the Spaniards have the goods on Basso too, they found the key to the codes and something about wiretaps, my spanish isn't that good. Remarkable how disco dodged the bullet yet again.
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Old 06-30-06, 02:19 AM
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Basso will win w/o Ullrich participating and it will be tainted waaay beyond the Barry Bonds home run record.

I predict he will drop. Especially with all the goods the Spanish apparently have on him. Wiretap?

It's better than winning it and having it taken away.

Last edited by PedalMasher; 06-30-06 at 02:43 AM.
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Old 06-30-06, 02:42 AM
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from cadenaSER radio:

Son cuatro cajas de folios, de las que se ha levantado el secreto para tres. La Guardia Civil ha identificado los códigos con los que el doctor Eufemiano Fuentes camuflaba en sus libretas los nombres de los cicilistas que hacían uso de sus servicios. La lista es de poco más de cincuenta corredores y, de momento, sólo hay ciclistas.

En esa lista están Jan Ullrich, Ivan Basso, Francisco Mancebo, Joseba Beloki, Roberto Heras, Tyler Hamilton, Santi Pérez, Santiago Botero, Quique Gutierrez, y así hasta 56 ciclistas.

El secretario de Estado para el Deporte, Jaime Lissavetzky, se va reunir mańana con el ministro de Deportes francés y es posible que la organización tome medidas muy dureas e impida la salida de todos estos corredores.

LA LISTA DE LOS PRESUNTAMENTE IMPLICADOS

ASTANÁ WURTH

MICHELE SCARPONI
MARCOS SERRANO
DAVID ETXEBARRIA
JOSEBA BELOKI
ANGEL VICIOSO
ISIDRO NOZAL
UNAI OSA
JAKSCHE JOORG

C.S.C.

IVAN BASSO

Caisse D'Espagne Illes Balears

CONSTANTINO ZABALLA

Saunier Duval

CARLOS ZARATE

AG2 R

FRANCISCO MANCEBO

T-Mobile

JAN ULLRICH
OSCAR SEVILLA

Phonak

JOSE ENRIQUE GUTIERREZ
JOSE IGNACIO GUTIERREZ

Comunitat Valenciana

VICENTE BALLESTER
DAVID BERNABEU
DAVID BLANCO RODRIGUEZ
JOSE ADRIAN BONILLLA
JUAN GOMIS LOPEZ
ELADIO JIMENEZ
DAVID LATASA
JAVIER PASCUAL
RUBEN PLAZA
J.LUIS M. JIMENEZ

Unibet.com

GARCIA QUESADA

Actualmente retirados o suspendidos por dopaje

ROBERTO HERAS
ANGEL CASERO
SANTIAGO PEREZ
TYLER HAMILTON
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Old 06-30-06, 02:43 AM
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tey should just suspend everyone and not have the tour. Every rider wirth a damn is doping and everyone knows it. If JAN doesent get to compete im never watching bicycle racing again.


****ing lame.
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Old 06-30-06, 02:50 AM
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I don't see how they will let anyone on the list start. I want to see the other half of the names!
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Old 06-30-06, 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Dead Roman
tey should just suspend everyone and not have the tour. Every rider wirth a damn is doping and everyone knows it. If JAN doesent get to compete im never watching bicycle racing again.


****ing lame.
Out of 198, it will be between 15 and 24 riders that will be out. I don't know where you live but the Tour is bigger than a rider. It has survived wars, doping scandals, it will survive this. You know why? Because even without Ullrich, Basso and Vinokourov, there will be MILLIONS on the roads watching it. And I'm happy for the clean riders, that have talent, but were always doomed to 5th or 6th places due to cheating by others. I'll watch the Tour, because in the Alpes, you will still have a fantastic fight between X and Y. I don't give a damn if it is Ullrich against Basso.
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Old 06-30-06, 03:17 AM
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I dont understand this, surely Jan's been tested hundreds of times at severals tours, how could he possibly never get caught until now???
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Old 06-30-06, 03:31 AM
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I dont understand this, surely Jan's been tested hundreds of times at severals tours, how could he possibly never get caught until now???
Because everyone is doping and everyone knows how to get round the tests.
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Old 06-30-06, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by adamastor
Out of 198, it will be between 15 and 24 riders that will be out. I don't know where you live but the Tour is bigger than a rider. It has survived wars, doping scandals, it will survive this. You know why? Because even without Ullrich, Basso and Vinokourov, there will be MILLIONS on the roads watching it. And I'm happy for the clean riders, that have talent, but were always doomed to 5th or 6th places due to cheating by others. I'll watch the Tour, because in the Alpes, you will still have a fantastic fight between X and Y. I don't give a damn if it is Ullrich against Basso.


5th or 6th places??? LOL thats hilarious. you sir are not living in reality. The numbers would be more along the lines of The top 30 or40 are all doping. Top 10... i can tell you with 100% certainty that the top 10 are doping.
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Old 06-30-06, 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by EURO
Because everyone is doping and everyone knows how to get round the tests.
And how do they manage to get around the tests?
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