jamiegoesbiking

I'm no sporting expert, but I don't understand why there are so many people getting busted for doping in Europe as compared to the American professional leagues. Are their tests more faulty or do the American leagues just ignore everything?

Either way, this whole thing is so annoying because nothing ever happens, in the end. Even if Floyd comes out and says "Yes, I doped," is it going to stop everyone else? You'd think it'd send a message with the top five people getting thrown out before the tour and the WINNER getting busted! Geesh!

Smoothie104

If you research some of the documents siezed from Dr. Fuentes blood clinic, you can see that he was prescribing a menopausal Hormone at the same time he was having the athelete ramp up their Anabolic use. A little Q&A with my Endocrine M.D Brother and some other sources tells me that HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadrotropin) when injected will increase epitestosterone levels and is used by athletes to slim the ratio margin of the T/E test. HCG is Banned by the IOC for this very reason. The investigators say that Fuentes was presribing HMG as a masking agent for anabolics. I don't know how similair the effects are, but I know Fuetnes was busted for prescribing HMG to athletes in 2004 as well.

What does this have to do with Floyd? Nothing I guess, but it is interesting to know that Performance Doctors have had ways to manipulate the T/E ratio for years, and been able to prescribe drugs which mask the prescense of anabolics. Also, Floyd's bar tab keeps getting bigger, first a beer, then a couple, now 4 shots of whisky. At this rate, We will have polaroids of Floyd and Axel doing keg stands while the DS is shotgunning beers in the background, puncturing the cans with a quick release skewer.

acrafton

Excerpts from: https://sport.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1107492006

"The lab also revealed the massive dose of testosterone in the winner's system. The test for testosterone measures the ratio between the naturally occurring epitestosterone to testosterone. The ratio in a normal person stands at 1:1. Landis's was a resounding 11:1. The acceptable limit has recently been lowered to 4:1.

The American is protesting his innocence, claiming that research will exonerate him and that he suffers from a thyroid condition. However, he has been tested dozens of times in the past, including six times on the Tour and never produced these results.

He has since let it be known that he drank a couple of beers and four whiskies the night before his surprising recovery in the Tour. If that is a strand of his defence, he might want to think again. US sprinter Dennis Mitchell tried the same argument in 1998, throwing in the added circumstance that he had also made love several times, all of which contributed to his high testosterone.

They're still laughing about that one. Mitchell was banned."

yellowjeep

I believe you, sorry about the eariler post I am just sick of everybody (other news outlets) quoting L'Equipe and only L'Equipe.

desmo13

+1

thunder

post of the month

smoothie outdoes smoothie. Just how did you do that?

meb

French marketting geniuses aren't they?

merlinextraligh

Ok, mulitiple sources are reporting that the confriming Isotope test for foreign testosterone was performed,and was positive. Multiple sources, including the guy that developed the test, are stating that it is standard WADA lab procedure to do the isotope test in the event the T/E ratio is high, before reporting the A sample as positive, and Landis' lawyer is attacking the accuracy of the Isotope test, rather than stating that it was't done or was negative.

Now, do you still believe L' Equipe is lying when they said it was done, and was positive.

And by the way, Yellowjeep, I wasn't referring to you when i said there were posts that claim L'Equipe is lying.

High Cadence

Well then, if that is true about the isotope test being positive (meaning foreign testosterone was in his system), then that pretty much sums it all up, don't ya think?

fixedfiend

I don't believe either side the way this whole fiasco is turning out. Both parties are somewhat negligent to an extent. Is Floyd guilty? If L'Equipe did the test and Floyd's lawyer is countering with its accuracy as argument, then....Yes, he's guilty. His lawyers suck b.t.w. Too bad this guy's gone, he could've got Floyd off.

superslomo

I'm ready to believe that it is true, but who other than L'Equipe (a story no one seems to be able to find btw...) is saying this, or is being quoted saying this?

If one source is quoted by twelve people, that doesn' mean there are 12 sources, still just one, right?

It goes without saying that I will be damn disappointed if it comes out that it's genuine and done.

And also, on the whole "massive French conspiracy" thing: if they were so conspiratorial, wouldn't they win the Tour a little more often? When's the last time a Frenchman won?

shokhead

If the b samples are neg,end of story.

EURO

That aint gonna happen.

DogBoy

Assuming the Isotope test was done and that the result was positive, and that the same comes from the B sample, I agree he's cooked. It still doesn't make sense to me though. Had this been EPO I'd have thought him guilty from the get-go, but since the drug use doesn't make sense, I've held out hope. All there is to do now is wait for the full publication of the B test results. If those test positive for the isotope test, I'll agree he's guilty.

I do believe he had some drinks after stage 16. He thought all was lost, so he cracked open a bottle to drown his sorrows. He had already lost, what's the harm in taking a drink? I'm not sure I believe 2 beers and 4 shots of whiskey...the guy is pretty small...that would put me in a stooper and I'm like 1.5 times his size. I could see a drink, but getting sloshed?

Finally, I believe EURO is wrong though that you must abandon the sport if you think the UCI does something stupid (like rely on a faulty test). If fans of the sport don't like something, they need to let the governing body know. If enough people complain about it, they might change it. Maybe, maybe not, but just because you think something is stupid, or a rule is bad doesn't mean you can't enjoy watching the guys go out and burn up the tarmac. Eventually, the real governing body of the sport is the fans. Tick off all the fans, and you have no sport.

HWS

+1


That's the bottom line.

merlinextraligh

Because drug testing in American professional sports leagues, particularly baseball, is a joke compared to the level of testing professional cycling gets.

merlinextraligh

It's used for recovery, read Smoothies posts for more thorough explanation. It's usefulness to cyclists is confirmed by the fact that a number of cyclists have tested positive for testosterone doping, and have been sanctioned, including Landis' Phonak teamate Urweider.

Read this, and tell me if you still hold out much hope for a Phonak rider :

GENEVA (AP) - In a sport riven by doping scandals, Floyd Landis' cycling team stands out.

Several riders for the Swiss-based Phonak team have been involved in drug cases, including American Tyler Hamilton, winner of the time trial gold medal at the 2004 Athens Olympics.

The International Cycling Union, the sport's governing body, refused Phonak a racing license for 2005 because of the team's doping record.

The team was only allowed to race after appealing to the Court of Arbitration for Sport, which ruled last year that Phonak should have a two-year license.

Three Phonak riders - Hamilton, Oscar Camenzind and Santi Perez - were all found guilty of doping violations in 2004 and fired.


Landis, winner of this year's Tour de France, tested positive for high levels of testosterone after the 17th stage last Thursday. He has denied wrongdoing and asked for analysis of his backup "B" sample.

Andy Rihs - owner of Swiss hearing aid firm Phonak, which sponsors the team - decided to hire new management in 2005, dismissing general manager Urs Freuler, as well as the team's sports director and doctor.

Phonak has now decided to pull its sponsorship, citing continuing doping issues in cycling. It will be replaced at the end of the season by ishares, a subsidiary of Barclays Bank.

"Think hard before you get involved in cycling, because there are never any guarantees when it comes to doping," Rihs told British daily The Times this week. "Where there's money, there's doping."

Hamilton tested positive for blood doping at the Spanish Vuelta in September 2004 and was banned for two years. He appealed to CAS, which upheld the ban. He was allowed to keep his Athens gold medal.

Perez tested positive for a blood transfusion in 2004 and was suspended for two years.

Former road world champion Camenzind tested positive for the endurance-boosting drug EPO in July 2004 and immediately withdrew from the Olympics. He was banned for two years, fired by Phonak and announced his retirement.

John Lelangue took over as team boss from Freuler in early 2005 and introduced a new regime, subjecting riders to blood analysis five days before each race, as well as just before and after some events.

Despite this, Santos Gonzalez was pulled out of the Spanish Vuelta last year after blood tests showed irregularities.

Another Phonak rider, Sascha Urweider, tested positive for testosterone and was fired.

And just last month, Phonak told riders Santiago Botero and Jose Enrique Gutierrez they won't be selected for races while they are suspected of doping.

Botero and Gutierrez - second in this year's Giro d'Italia - have been linked in Spanish media reports to Eufemiano Fuentes, the sports physician at the centre of a major doping scandal in Spain.

They both missed the Tour de France as a result. Perez - already suspended in 2004 - was also named in connection with the scandal.

https://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Cycling/20...707630-ap.html

flythebike

Ha ha, so I'm not the only one that noticed that fish just kept getting bigger. Given his upbringing, he might not be too keen to tell everybody he got wasted, so you can't simply assume he is lying. Not saying he isn't lying either. Just saying he might not want his mom to know he had more than a beer.

Ritterview

The Scotsman story doesn't identify its source, and thus appears to be be rely on the L'Equipe story. The L'Equipe story is not on the website, and we haven't seen direct excerpts from this story, but rather other newspapers reporting that is what L'Equipe reports.

However, since Landis' lawyers are denigrating the isotope test, the test must have been done and been positive.

HWS

That's quite an assumption. Landis' lawyer might be doing the same thing we are....reacting to a rumor that something was rumored.

merlinextraligh

but you know how we lawyers are. Defending a dog bite case: My client's dog doesn't bite; My client's dog was chained up, My client's dog, was miles away from the incident, and besides, My client doesn't even have a dog.

iluvfreebeer

If it doesn't fit, you must acquit

yellowjeep

You know, the more you here something the more you start to believe it. I am so sick of this entire thing.

Albany-12303

I am curious and some clarification would help.

Did Landis test pos for "high testosterone" also? (in addition to a high T/ET ratio)

timmhaan

when are we supposed to learn of the 'b' test? a news article (i think CNN) mentioned lanids might find out today.