CmJc

Tangent warning: Please don't take this personally, I know you are merely echoing what has literally been drummed into you from the cradle, but it is this imagined (but non-exisitent) dichotomy that astonishes observers of what occurs in the 50 States.

No offence intended, but worthy of deep consideration.

grolby

Please don't take this personally, but you're an idiot. Y'know, I'm extremely sympathetic, as a card-carrying East Coast Ivory Tower Liberal Elitist, to European and global views of the United States, but I'm not sympathetic to smug and unjustified generalizations from self-righteous jackasses like you. This has nothing whatsoever to do with politics, either mine or those practiced in the U.S. in general, and it certainly has nothing to do with some kind national character of U.S. I would tell you where you could cram your "worthy of deep consideration," but this is a public forum.

Anyway, there is nothing particularly "American" about this view of the situation. It is literally and pragmatically true. Since you seem to have missed this point, I will say it again: pro cycling is a job. J. O. B. He rode for Garmin because they paid him. That they put trust in him and worked hard to develop his potential as a rider is very nice, but they were also getting paid. I'm not saying that the only concern anyone should have is money, because that's obviously not true. I'm also not saying that there aren't ways that Wiggins could have handled it that would have been more personally gracious, because there may well be. That's beside the point, which is that when it comes to employment, it's stupid for anyone not to look to their welfare and happiness first. It doesn't matter whether you're a pro cyclist or a bank teller; you only get one life, and working a job isn't the best possible fit when you have a better choice is a waste of precious time. There are arguments to be made, such as the one by EDR, that this wasn't the best professional choice. Okay, fine. That's a good point. As for the personal stuff, the point could be made that he could have been more gracious or that he "owes" more respect to what JV and the team did for him, but... whatever. If Wiggins' priorities lie elsewhere, I can't really fault him, since they frankly are not all that unreasonable. Lots more money + patriotism + an organization the he likes better = duh. That will hurt some feelings, yes. We'll see if that hurts him later. My guess is: it won't.

So, CmJc: do you disagree? If so, argue the damn point. I won't bother responding to future irrelevant and insulting tangents.

CmJc

The London Olympic games bods have axed the individual track pursuit, in which both Ms. Romero and Wiggo won Gold Gongs in Beijing.

Will this disappoint him or help him to focus more fully on the Pro-Team?

He doesn't seem bothered by the pruning of his speciality from the Olympic Velodrome roster:

Romero and Wiggins comment on Olympics pursuit cull
https://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/...suit-cull.html

CmJc

Seem to have touched a nerve... sincerest apologies.

grolby

Uh, yes, insulting people tends to piss them off. Fancy that.

aloysius

You may be right, but Wiggans is an intriguing talent. The fact that he improved his GC skills as much as he did makes me wonder if he can take that next step and become a bona fide tour contender. Vandevelde provides an interesting contrast. He's steady and has a solid record; he will, barring a crash or an injury, almost certainly make the top 10 or 15 in the tour. But does he have any chance of winning it? Granted, Wiggans is more likely to plateau or regress, but given the dearth of credible challengers to Contador, the fact that he could aspire to that level makes him one of the few GC guys worth watching.

rog

I think the improvement that Vandevelde made was almost as significant as the gains that Wiggins made. Before he finished fourth in the Tour (after the cheaters were kicked out), Vandeveldes best placing was, what, 25th? A career domestique with a variety of physical issues, but once they worked out the physical stuff, he's a "steady" top ten rider. BTW - that's two top tens in two years, and no top 20s before that. I'd say their potential is about the same, on the road, with Wiggins having a slight advantage due to his age. And maybe his attitude, as well...VV seemed a bit content to be a domestique.

CmJc

Interesting remarks Aloysius and Rog:...

Wiggo has a hefty four year contract with Sky, and despite his somewhat quixotic career so far, he seems to have satisfied his track ambitions and is now serious about making a mark in the Grand Tours. Given the astounding logistics behind the Sky Team, and DB's "track" record of hitting the bull's-eye, podiums will not be a pipe-dream.

The other interesting aspect to this is that Wiggo's move has prompted a rethink over the the transfer rules for cyclists.
As I mentioned previously, the Bosman ruling really shook up the EU Football player market, giving far more freedom to players tied to a particular club.

Bert, understandably, has already commented that he'd like to see a similar shakeup in the UCI.

Here's some fodder on the Bosman ruling if you are hungry:

THE BOSMAN CASE, EU LAW AND THE TRANSFER SYSTEM
https://www.liv.ac.uk/footballindustry/bosman.html

CmJc

Here's Bert on the topic:

Contador calls for rider transfer system :
https://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/...er-system.html

aloysius

Age is the thing -- I just don't see Vandevelde improving that greatly at 34. In recent years he's shown what he can do when he's healthy, and it's very good, but not great. Wiggans is, what, 29?

Racer Ex 

Please elaborate on Sky's "astounding logistics". Will their team cars be modified BMW 750 iL's equipped with rocket launchers? Will their wrist watches harbor spoke cutting lasers? Jet pack shoes for those testy HC climbs? Knockout gas emitting fake water bottles?

Please, astound us.

You know what would really astound me? If a moderator would get off their ass and shuffle this stupidity over to the 217 where it belongs.

ridethecliche

This is the funniest thing I've read in a while.

Man. Grolby's posts were especially amusing. Thanks for the laugh G-money, and yes, I'm agreeing with you here.

Dubbayoo

All I know is since Wiggins thinks riding for Garmin is like playing for Wigan I would absolutely kill to see Zabriskie roll up to an interview in a Wigan FC t-shirt. Heck, I may hop on the intarwebz and see if I can find one myself.

grolby

"G-money"?

rog

Yes, 29, but personally, I think they've both about reached their potential...the only factors that will change with VV are, will he remain healthy through a whole training season and Tour, and will he manage to not crash on an important descent. With Wiggins, I just don't see him making the improvements he needs to make to get on the level of the top two, Schleck and Contador, nor do I see him separating himself from the rest of the guys who are just below that, the Evans and Armstrongs and VVs, etc. And his team isn't any stronger, in my opinion, than the Garmin team was...in fact, I just watched stage 17 again, and VV turned himself inside out to help him on the climbs...I don't know that Sky has someone that is going to do that as well, and to that end, as well as the notion that he's not an unknown commodity anymore, I think will conspire against his improving his position.

Of course, I probably shouldn't comment, as I've never won a stage race... ;-)

CmJc

Racer Ex: DB will use the same approach and facilities to develop Sky that he used to Golden effect masterminding the British Olympic cycling Team's success. Study-up for details, or wait for the Team's official launch next month.

Rider Transfers:

Vawt was undoubtedly made acutely aware of the Bosman ruling in his negotiations with DB and Wiggo. It would be the threat of legal action resulting in a cycling "Wiggins ruling" that wrapped the lethal arm-lock around his carotid arteries.

For example:
When you substitute "Pro-cycling" for "Football" in this academic study you glimpse the future framework Bert et. al. are calling for.
https://www.liv.ac.uk/footballindustry/bosman.html
THE BOSMAN CASE, EU LAW AND THE TRANSFER SYSTEM
Dr Geoff Pearson, of the Football Industry Group, University of Liverpool. UK.

Q/
THE FUTURE FOR EU LAW AND FOOTBALL
EU law is of huge importance for the football industry throughout the world. Although the EU accepts the 'specificity of sport', it grants no exemption from EU law for the industry. Where purely sporting rules are integral for the sport and are considered proportionate (e.g. eligibility rules for International football) these can be justified, but where rules are either not integral for sport or have a disproportionate impact on EU rights they can be challenged by the Commission or in the European Court of Justice. (Italics added.)
/Q

And what about an all-American, all-British, or all-Basque Team?

Q/
QUOTA SYSTEMS AND THE HOMEGROWN PLAYER RULES
The current legal situation is that any quotas limiting the number of foreigners (who are EU citizens) from club football are illegal. Direct discrimination on the grounds of nationality is expressly prohibited by EU law... The [homegrown player] rule is discriminatory under EU law...
/Q

And concludes:

Q/
EU Competition Law prohibits anti-competitive agreements (Article 81) and prohibits abuse of a dominant market position (Article 82). Since all football's governing bodies are effectively monopolies, this means that they must act reasonably and not abuse their position, otherwise they will be in breach of EU law.
/Q

The chunky paunches of football's FIFA and UEFA have already discovered to their vast cost (like William Gates of Seattle) that EU law is best not shrugged off.

To whom will the UCI's big-bellies listen; the riders, or to Team management, and their own egos?

gsteinb

W.


T.


F.

CmJc

The filthy lucre aspects to the Vaughters-Wiggins battle make interesting reading:

Sky rumoured to have paid 4 million POUNDS for Wiggo, and 2 million pounds to Vawt!

Team Sky: a British tour de force
https://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle6954505.ece

aloysius

Wow, that's astonishing. I know I've been touting his potential, but that's an awful lot for a guy with such modest record of achievement on the road.

aloysius

You may be right. Even without Wiggins, Vandevelde will be riding with a fairly strong GC support squad.

CmJc

Wiggo had both poor Vawt and DB over a barrel in the recent fracas, and made maximum use of it.

But don't forget his superb track record, Gold Gongs, and "unique" personality with terrific street-credibilty where it matters.

He's the centrepiece in Sky's strategy over the next four years. You may be aware that Sky are involved in a tad more than just cycling. This fine Times article gives some pointers...

Dave Brailsford's team expect big things from Bradley Wiggins at the Tour de France, but he isn’t their only star rider:
https://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle6954505.ece

Some delightful nibbles courtesy of David Walsh's excellent Times article (well worth reading the whole piece):

Vawt on his eccentric diamond:
Q/
“I found the best way to deal with Brad,” said his former director of sport at Garmin, Jonathan Vaughters, “was to let him do his own thing. Shield him from the media, because the more he stayed off the map, the better he was.”
/Q

If you caught Wiggo's priceless retort, atop the Tour's Queen stage, to Andreu's suggestion of retaining 4th to Paris, you will understand what Vawt meant.

Money-talks-Brailsford:
Q/
"Brailsford, though, knows Wiggins and fully understands that with an annual budget of £10m, his team have to have a presence in the Tour de France."
/Q

Ten million smackers! (That's $16.3 million a year in dodgy money.)

Norwegian Blues NOT pining for the Fjords:
Q/
"Brailsford didn’t just go out and buy the hottest kid in the peloton. [22-year-old Norwegian Edvald Boasson Hagen] He hired two other Norwegians, Kurt Asle Arvesen and Lars Petter Nordhaug, to help Boasson Hagen adjust to a new environment."
/Q

Boasson Hagen dutifully won the Tour of Britain soon after the TdF.

ESL lessons for foreigners... and no cuddles:
Q/
"Brailsford will insist that English is the team’s language and the standards will be those that have underpinned the extraordinary success of his GB track team. “We are not malicious or vindictive but if anyone’s behaviour is not allowing us to get where we want to be, we’ll give them a chance to modify, and if they can’t, then they are out,” he said."
/Q

Understood?

gsteinb

No. What's with your inability to utilize bb code or anything resembling common quote conventions?

Racer Ex 

Long on hyperbole, short on details are we? Astounding "approach and facilities"? How terribly specific.

Brailsford is far from a genius BTW. Unless lifting the AIS track system and adding money to win some medals in cycling's backwater is "genius". In that case he's Einstein.

I might be missing the genius in not signing Wiggans for cheap when he had the chance, given that he's had him right there front and center for years. Certainly a "genius" would have moved on that.

Here's what I'm hoping for: a soccer hooligan style riot between the people who can't wait to see the new Radio Shack jersey and the UK twits who are on the edge of their seats waiting for the official launch of Team Sky.

With luck it will end badly for both sides. Here's a preview:

aloysius

Yes, I've heard that sponsors often have business interests beyond paying people to put their name on their their kits. Thanks, however, for all the "delightful nibbles."

CmJc

Securing Wiggo has brought in even more sponsorship for DB's Team:

Two more backers for Team Sky:
https://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/...-team-sky.html

And Wiggo's Boss Gonged...

The Queen honours Brain of British Cycling:
https://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/...am-palace.html

Blimey! Murdoch's dosh and Royal Seal of approval.

Does Pro-cycling deserve such mixed "blessings"?

It must be Christmas.