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There has always been doping in cycling. There I said it. The emperor is naked as a jay bird! Its not the doping, it is the denial of the doping for so long, and destroying other people to keep it a secret that I find distasteful. look at what they did to Floyd and are still doing to him. Contrador got a 2 year ban, and a stripping.
There should be 2 categories , a doped winner, and a clean winner. Let the public chose who they want to reward. When it all comes down to it, we are all just human beings trying to do the best we can. People cheat, shiz happens the end. |
Originally Posted by thinktubes
(Post 14862080)
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Originally Posted by longbeachgary
(Post 14862041)
Lance was never your mentor nor a hero or heroic icon.
I agree. and I think you're a troll. http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=279544 |
Just wondering if the other complicit individuals, like Ferrari are going to face any repercussions in their fields. Doctors who shoot up professional athletes should face jIl time, too. Get fined up the yazzoo. Have their licences yanked.
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Originally Posted by ThinLine
(Post 14862018)
Lance Armstrong had everyone fooled,
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Oh good. A fresh topic. What's next, Campy vs Shimano vs SRAM? Carbon vs aluminum vs steel vs titanium? Clincher vs tubular?
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Did you think that he was really clean? Seriously.
He cheated better than anyone else. As the great philosopher Dennis Rodman once said when asked if he was a hero to some "I'm no hero. A hero is just a sandwich" |
well covered ground. merging with the existing mega thread in pro.
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Lance was far from having everyone fooled. Wasn't ever even close. Yet, some of us still chose to support him. If we were following cycling and wanted to cheer for someone, we had lot's of options. But, none that anyone who isn't an imbecile could believe to be clean.
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Originally Posted by bigfred
(Post 14862431)
Lance was far from having everyone fooled. Wasn't ever even close. Yet, some of us still chose to support him. If we were following cycling and wanted to cheer for someone, we had lot's of options. But, none that anyone who isn't an imbecile could believe to be clean.
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Believing in the man, believing in his cause, believing he was a superior cyclist, and believing he was a superior manager of his drug fueled tour dominating machine do not me that someone believes he was clean.
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Originally Posted by bikepro
(Post 14861912)
Why depend on second-hand opinions? Go to the WADA website and read the actual document. http://cyclinginvestigation.usada.org/
The Times piece is focused on the loneliness felt by many of the early whistleblowers as they waited for folks to actually do something. Those guys risked a lot and faced threats, which are chronicled in the story. That you won't get from reading the USADA decision. |
Here's the best piece of writing I've read on this topic over the last few days.
http://pvcycling.wordpress.com/2012/...till-in-doubt/ |
Originally Posted by dstrong
(Post 14647632)
To me, you don't win 3 week stage races because you doped...you win because of the preparation, the team, the strategy and the luck. I think doping plays a negligible part in a TDF, Giro or Vuelta win.
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Originally Posted by dstrong
(Post 14647632)
To me, you don't win 3 week stage races because you doped...you win because of the preparation, the team, the strategy and the luck. I think doping plays a negligible part in a TDF, Giro or Vuelta win.
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Originally Posted by bigfred
(Post 14858809)
Not my point at all. However, I am a bit annoyed by those that are currently viewing a guy who has been gone for a couple years as the root of all evil.
What he was/is would be is the dopers equivalent to Bernie Madoff, or, perhaps a better example: http://www.breathhold.com/BF/LA.jpg As Rick James was the cautionary tale for the excesses of cocaine, so goes Lance to PED's.
Originally Posted by bigfred
(Post 14858809)
I guess the answer lies in defining "clean" or "clean enough". (shoulder shrug) The 50% rule was a corrupt governing body's way of dealing with the problem. It had zero basis beyond (hopefully) preventing people from checking out in their sleep and saying "look, see, we're doing something here". |
Originally Posted by Racer Ex
(Post 14863205)
You see dead people? There may be a 1% that thinks this. I haven't read anything that put this idea forward.
What he was/is would be is the dopers equivalent to Bernie Madoff, or, perhaps a better example: As Rick James was the cautionary tale for the excesses of cocaine, so goes Lance to PED's. That's a really easy answer. There's no "clean enough". Yoda would shake his head at that statement and answer "clean, not clean. There is no clean enough" The 50% rule was a corrupt governing body's way of dealing with the problem. It had zero basis beyond (hopefully) preventing people from checking out in their sleep and saying "look, see, we're doing something here". I appreciate what you're saying about "clean" or "unclean". But, the reality is that the available test methods can't support such an approach. And, it's very possible that they never will be able to. At best, currently, they can determine "dirty" or "may or may not be dirty". So, as long as there exists either substances or methods that are undetectable after the fact, except for their consequences, this issue will remain. We're stuck with that fact. |
Originally Posted by mmmdonuts
(Post 14652099)
Yep! Whether or not you like LeMond he said himself that suddenly EVERYONE was riding away from him while his numbers were the same as before. Once EPO hit the market almost the entire peloton used it. If everyone's performance is elevated then the best guy will still win.
I enjoyed watching LA compete from his days on the US National team through his 2005 TDF win. But I also noticed that LA the person was a bit of a d-bag then and showed his true colors in retirement and comeback. I haven't been a fan since that last TDF win but I still consider all of those wins valid. I hope Spain doesn't change their ways and decide to go after Indurain. |
Originally Posted by bicyclridr4life
(Post 14863323)
I've never heard anyone - not even LaMond claim Indurian was "dirty".
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2000/...ope001026.html |
There has never been a Tour de France where the riders were not taking something to get them through it. Same goes for the Giro, Vuelta, and the classics.
The bottom line. What they were on back in whenever, certainly not as sophisticated as today's magic potions. But they were on stuff. It is what it is. |
Originally Posted by chasm54
(Post 14863329)
Thomas Davy, who rode for Banesto at the same time as Indurain, asserted that there was a systematic doping programme in the team. His accusations were roundly denounced by the Spanish press, which has always idolised big Mig as a Spanish hero. It is interesting, though, that when Riise confessed to Epo abuse Indurain expressed regret, saying that he thought such confessions, after the event, were bad for cycling.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2000/...ope001026.html |
Lances Failures have become my own
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It looks like zombie lance. You should have sued the artist when it happened.
In before the merge. |
1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by Beaker
(Post 14862761)
Here's the best piece of writing I've read on this topic over the last few days.
http://pvcycling.wordpress.com/2012/...till-in-doubt/ http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=279681 |
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