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I love Vaughters more every day

Old 04-18-11, 11:55 AM
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Dubbayoo
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I love Vaughters more every day

Teams walk out of UCI meeting over race radio ban

In an email seen by Cyclingnews, McQuaid wrote to Vaughters:

"I have had enough of this High Moral Ground from you and I am refraining myself from writing exactly what I am thinking.
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Old 04-18-11, 09:21 PM
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McQuaid is a bit of a jerk and I think (hope) that his days are numbered at the UCI. However, I'm in favor of the race radio ban and feel that some of these team managers are acting like spoiled children. A one-way radio feed from race radio to the teams and cars should satisfy any safety concerns.
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Old 04-18-11, 09:48 PM
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Everybody loses in this mess. McQuaid comes off as unprofessional and I'm guessing about 99% of cycling fans want him gone. Vaughters is full of himself and if you think this has anything to do with safety you're crazy.

The compromise is so simple if both parties actually wanted to work together.
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Old 04-18-11, 10:08 PM
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I liked being able to hear the communication like NASCAR.
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Old 04-19-11, 03:26 AM
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Ironic that the pros, not just the big names who win (or lose) races based on strategy (and lack thereof if forced to 'race deaf') are all mostly unanimous in opposition to the ban.

You would think that a guy like Dan Martin - who stands a chance of winning big ones more often if the team strategy structure is in disarray and he's left out in a break/move that gets to succeed - would embrace something that could have a direct and measurable financial upside to him.

Yet if you read the media and listen to the rides posts on their blogs/team sites, they all seem to think it is wrong. And, frankly, a lot of them who have raced without and have direct experience of the differences, are indicating that safety above all IS what is lacking. From a lack of warnings about urgent happenings, to team cars pull up into and alongside riders more often to talk strategy.

So -- given that we can count on one hand the number of posters on this board with Pro Tour experience -- maybe we should be listening to the folks who do this for a living?
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Old 04-19-11, 04:10 AM
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I think the UCI should listen to what the teams have to say. I do not think the teams should be part of the decision making process aside from giving their input. It doesn't happen in other sports so why should it happen in cycling. The people who are setup to run a sport need to have a line drawn between themselves and the teams competing or it gets messy, as one team might push an issue for an advantage over another team.
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Old 04-19-11, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by gear View Post
I think the UCI should listen to what the teams have to say. I do not think the teams should be part of the decision making process aside from giving their input. It doesn't happen in other sports so why should it happen in cycling.
The NFL team owners vote on every rule change.
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Old 04-19-11, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Dubbayoo View Post
The NFL team owners vote on every rule change.
Well, we've had the NFL and NASCAR. What next? Wrestling?

Just for the sake of balance here's a couple of alternative views.


Philippe Gilbert:
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/gilb...orts-radio-ban


Cycle Sport Online:
Makes the case that road cycling involves mental as well as physical effort. Radios mean more riders will leave the thinking to the DS. Also makes the point that pro riders fought long and hard to keep the UCI from introducing mandatory helmets so their track record on safety would lead anyone to be sceptical about their motives on this issue.
https://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-an...racing-boring/


There are at least two sides to every story. This has been one of them.

Last edited by Caretaker; 04-19-11 at 12:06 PM. Reason: accuracy
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Old 04-19-11, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by luxroadie View Post
Ironic that the pros, not just the big names who win (or lose) races based on strategy (and lack thereof if forced to 'race deaf') are all mostly unanimous in opposition to the ban.

You would think that a guy like Dan Martin - who stands a chance of winning big ones more often if the team strategy structure is in disarray and he's left out in a break/move that gets to succeed - would embrace something that could have a direct and measurable financial upside to him.

Yet if you read the media and listen to the rides posts on their blogs/team sites, they all seem to think it is wrong. And, frankly, a lot of them who have raced without and have direct experience of the differences, are indicating that safety above all IS what is lacking. From a lack of warnings about urgent happenings, to team cars pull up into and alongside riders more often to talk strategy.

So -- given that we can count on one hand the number of posters on this board with Pro Tour experience -- maybe we should be listening to the folks who do this for a living?
Until your post I was thinking the safety issue was bull. You have changed my mind.

Conditions up the road can be handled with race radio, but riders mixing with cars is inevitable and made worse without radio.

I would like to see radios banned, but I have a concern with fairness. Which cars get to be closest to the back of the peleton? Those teams gain a significant advatage over other teams.

The issues are complex. I do think team managers have their own interests at heart, that means making their job more importnat and having more control. After all if the team does poorly they lose their job. They want the strategic control radios give them, not to help racing, but to at least make it more likely that when they lose their job it involved choices they made.
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Old 04-19-11, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by luxroadie View Post
team cars pull up into and alongside riders more often to talk strategy.
This is about the only safety concern I can see that a one way radio with general safety and condition warnings wouldn't solve. An example (though not a direct one) would be when Cancellara was attempting to catch the break away and scuffled with a video motorcycle. With how close he came to catching Van Summeren an argument could be made that if he hadn't been interfered with he may have won Pari-Roubaix. The more vehicles in the area the higher the chance of interference.
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Old 04-20-11, 12:23 AM
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What's the point of banning radios if team cars are still out there to relay messages? How about a bike computer that can receive text messages? The problem is a disagreement in the ideology of what professional cycling should be, not about radios. Each side is just using their best on-hand debate evidence to try to make an excuse as to why they should get their way.
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Old 04-20-11, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Dubbayoo View Post
The NFL team owners vote on every rule change.
The NFL has a committee that takes input via votes from teams, but the committee makes (or doesn't make) changes to rules.
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Old 04-20-11, 09:16 AM
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I'll give you another safety issue ... comes from the same place as my point about riders and cars mixing.

Dan Martin - in his Procycling column noted that in a recent race (MSR - I'll check the mag when I get home if it isn't in the bin) was coming around a corner and (almost) WHAM he just about nailed the back of an ambulance that was called to tend to a crashed rider.

No one had any idea an ambulance was on the course.


Second example - breakaway up road during Amstel Gold. Eurosport commentators talking with a race director on phone. Radio message comes from a rider up road that the "road book" doesn't note a particularly dangerous "road furniture" hazard and that the guy with the flag is standing ON IT not in advance of it. The divider almost took out the break (five guys) and clearly as the peleton was cruising it would have annilated the group.

The breaks' radio message was relayed to the team who alerted the others of the upcoming bottleneck - Eurosport guy commented on how they made it through safely ... all because of race radios ...

Hmm.

As for Gilbert - I'll brush up on my Dutch but I'm pretty certain I saw an article recently (post RvV) about Omega's support of radios -- whole big tizzy about the protests and the Omega guys commenting on why the didn't support them during the Middle East swing (didn't want to piss off race organizers who put a lot of money and energy into building support for races like Tour of Oman, etc).

But I'm pretty sure it indicated that there was fairly unanimous support of radios -- so my guess is that what Gilbert said in January (before he rode withOUT a radio) might be different than what he'd think now.

Again - if you read what the riders are saying it is pretty clear they want the radios. I myself was encouraged that they'd go without (more exciting, truer to the history of the sport, etc).

But since I've read what riders themselves want -- and why they are concerned to go without -- and knowing that the impact on race results is almost the exact opposite (Cycle Sport mag did a graphic on the races with and without and it is clear breaks stand no chance when the race is run without radios since the peleton keeps them within sight all day!) I'm now inclined to say give them the radios and get back to riding.
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Old 04-20-11, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by gear View Post
I think the UCI should listen to what the teams have to say. I do not think the teams should be part of the decision making process aside from giving their input. It doesn't happen in other sports so why should it happen in cycling. The people who are setup to run a sport need to have a line drawn between themselves and the teams competing or it gets messy, as one team might push an issue for an advantage over another team.
In the NBA they tried to switch the ball a few years ago. The players thought it was crap and they ended up switching it back.
It just bothers me that it's all about making the racing 'more exciting'. It just seems so arbitrary. Let's just accept that it's become part of racing..
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Old 04-20-11, 11:09 AM
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Nascar, NFL, NBA. You forgot icehockey and baseball.
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Old 04-21-11, 03:25 AM
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Originally Posted by luxroadie View Post
Dan Martin - in his Procycling column noted that in a recent race (MSR - I'll check the mag when I get home if it isn't in the bin)
Was Tour de Murcia.
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