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Thor leaving Cervelo?

Old 07-26-11, 12:09 AM
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ultraman6970
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Thor leaving Cervelo?

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/...cervelo_186280


The guy would give BMC a push for the classics if he goes there.
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Old 07-26-11, 02:00 AM
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I think this is a great move for him. I don't know if anyone has been watching the beyond the peleton videos which cervelo puts out, but some of Thor's concerns are clearly evident to me in these, especially this:

“It was not determined enough,” Hushovd said. “We were not concrete enough on how to work and who we were racing for in each race. I think there should be a clear strategy before the start, and none of that ‘The best rider on the day is the one we will race for.’ That only causes uncertainty … I still have a lot of big goals that I would like to achieve. I have no intention to end my career as an auxiliary rider.”

Litterally every team meeting goes "anyone can win, we will support whoever has the legs". Pick a leader, protect them, and let them win it in the end.

Sadly the Tour wil probably make Vaughters think he's got great strategy, but with the quality of riders on that team I think its talent and luck, with little strategy involved.

If he goes to Leopard-Trek they would be tough to beat in the classics.
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Old 07-26-11, 02:36 AM
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vaughters gives me the impression that he's happiest practicing/preaching sacrifice for the team; winning team time trials and best team overall at grand tours vs stage wins for an individual rider on the team. i could be totally wrong and probably am but he strikes me as kind of a 'moneyball' ds, getting rising and declining talent vs stars. not saying it's bad, but dynamic talents like a wiggins or hushovd may be better elsewhere while they're still in their prime. garmin-cervelo/vaughters would likely be okay for them once they've started
their personal descent of the bell curve...
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Old 07-26-11, 09:23 AM
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NOOOOOO!

My favorite rider and my favorite team.... it was so beautiful...
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Old 07-26-11, 09:33 AM
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Don't be surprised if he goes to a French team: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/eigh...shovd-for-2012
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Old 07-26-11, 09:43 AM
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From what I've heard, it looks like it's almost a certainty that he's leaving. Good for him that he got those 2 stage wins in the Tour so that he will be able to negotiate a higher salary for next year.
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Old 07-26-11, 09:50 AM
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Good for Thor. Group hugs, share and share alike, and song circles do not make for dominant bike teams.

Last edited by mmmdonuts; 07-26-11 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 07-26-11, 10:39 AM
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Well...they DID show him chatting with Cancellara during the final stage and Phil postured that maybe they were doing a little negotiating...and then Thor grabbed Fabian's radio and said something into it that they all had a good laugh about...probably something about how Norway rules.
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Old 07-26-11, 11:00 AM
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I don't see why Thor would sign with Leopard Trek. He wants to win more classics, not be the 2nd man behind Cancellara.
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Old 07-26-11, 12:16 PM
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He rode good.
Garmin does seem a bit milk-toast when it comes to clear tactics.
Tyler could win more if the Garmin train was as accomplished as the HTC
Thor is no longer at the top of his sprint game.
He wants some classics. Classics are a little about 'team' (not much) but more about being in the right sport at the right time and going when the opportunity presents.
I wasn't impressed by his Classics style - he hung onto Fabio like a dingleberry and never made his own move.
Don't think there's a team out there that could possibly meet his stated expectations, nor should they.
Personally, my money is on Gilbert - shame he and some other good riders are sucked into the Omega-Pharma blackhole
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Old 07-26-11, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DXchulo View Post
I don't see why Thor would sign with Leopard Trek. He wants to win more classics, not be the 2nd man behind Cancellara.
He might not have to be the second man. After this year's classics, it's pretty clear nobody is going to let Cancellara do the 50k solo breakaway time-trial to victory tactic anymore, and I don't know if he has another way of winning anyway since he can't sprint. Thor demonstrated that he could hang with Cancellara in those instances this year, so if they could agree to split the classics between themselves, they could possibly sweep them.

Like Thor said, he wants to have a predetermined plan going into the race. Maybe I missed it, but I don't think he necessarily said that predetermined plan HAD to involve him winning. I don't see why having some flexibility out on the road isn't a good thing, but Thor and Leopard might be able to agree to something. Personally, I think it's the "Schleck 1-2" strategy, but more effective, since there aren't really climbs to complicate things, and the guy following wheels gets a bigger drafting advantage. It could be pretty simple; if it comes to a sprint, Thor takes it, if Cancellara can breakaway, he takes it while Thor lets any chasers tow him up to Cancellara if it comes back together for a sprint.

Of course, they both want to win, but we saw at Paris-Roubaix that when they both want to beat each other, neither of them win. If they worked together, I'd bet they could each be assured at least one classic per season if Gilbert doesn't spoil the party.

Last edited by Kind of Blued; 07-26-11 at 01:48 PM.
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Old 07-26-11, 02:05 PM
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Cancellara is smart enough to adjust to what happened this year. He's still one of the strongest guys, and if he makes a strong move at the right time it's game over for everybody. He'll be a big favorite next year as always.

I think Hushovd's big goals are the classics. He knows he's not a pure sprinter and he's fine not having a sprint train, but he wants his own team for the classics. Why split them up when he can be the #1 guy for all of them?

“And I want to be able to go to the races that are most important to me, and to be backed up at those races.”
I still have a lot of big goals that I would like to achieve. I have no intention to end my career as an auxiliary rider.”
I don't think he had a problem leading out Farrar in the flat sprints, but he did have a problem sharing leadership for the classics.

Hushovd to BMC is a big rumor at the moment.
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Old 07-27-11, 12:47 AM
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doesn't matter this is not a true team sport anyway. -you see what I did there.
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Old 07-27-11, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ooga-booga View Post
vaughters gives me the impression that he's happiest practicing/preaching sacrifice for the team; winning team time trials and best team overall at grand tours vs stage wins for an individual rider on the team. i could be totally wrong and probably am but he strikes me as kind of a 'moneyball' ds, getting rising and declining talent vs stars. not saying it's bad, but dynamic talents like a wiggins or hushovd may be better elsewhere while they're still in their prime. garmin-cervelo/vaughters would likely be okay for them once they've started
their personal descent of the bell curve...
The team championship is a consolation prize. Other than the past couple of years can you name a single team that you are sure won it (Identifying the actual Tour it happened in)? Or look at most historical sites that have TDF results. You will se the 3 Jerseys and likely hte top 3 in hte GC. Best young rider is more apt to be shown than the team championship!

In fact if you suspect you know which team won in a Tour you might even have a hard time verifying it.

I happen to know the Team champion for 2 years. 1969 Faema and 1986 La vie Claire. I know both because it was picked up along the way to other much more important things. I suspect Telekom in 96 and possibly 97, and Italy in 49 and 52 (it there even was a team championship).
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Old 07-27-11, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
The team championship is a consolation prize.

In fact if you suspect you know which team won in a Tour you might even have a hard time verifying it.
I suspect the team sponsors enjoy having the team prize - gives them some nice photos to use in motivational posters etc. I don't remember seeing the yellow dorsals until a few years ago though.

Your suspicions on verifying the winners though, are ill placed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_cl...Tour_de_France

Year Team
1930 France
1931 Belgium
1932 Italy
1933 France
1934 France
1935 Belgium
1936 Belgium
1937 France
1938 Belgium
1939 Belgium B[note 1]
1947 Italy
1948 Belgium A[note 1]
1949 Italy A[note 1]
1950 Belgium A[note 1]
1951 France
1952 Italy
1953 Netherlands
1954 Switzerland
1955 France
1956 Belgium
1957 France
1958 Belgium
1959 Belgium
1960 France
1961 France
1962 St. Raphaël
1963 St. Raphaël
1964 Pelforth
1965 Kas
1966 Kas
1967 France
1968 Spain
1969 Faema
1970 Salvarani
1971 Bic
1972 Gan – Mercier

1973 Bic
1974 Kas
1975 Gan – Mercier
1976 Kas
1977 TI-Raleigh
1978 Miko – Mercier
1979 Renault
1980 Miko – Mercier
1981 Peugeot
1982 Coöp – Mercier
1983 TI-Raleigh
1984 Renault
1985 La Vie Claire
1986 La Vie Claire
1987 Système ‘U’
1988 PDM
1989 PDM
1990 Z-Peugeot
1991 Banesto
1992 Carrera Jeans-Vagabond
1993 Carrera Jeans-Tassoni
1994 Festina
1995 ONCE
1996 Festina
1997 Team Telekom
1998 Cofidis
1999 Banesto
2000 Kelme
2001 Kelme
2002 ONCE
2003 Team CSC
2004 T-Mobile Team
2005 T-Mobile Team
2006 T-Mobile Team
2007 Discovery Channel
2008 Team CSC Saxo Bank
2009 Astana
2010 Team RadioShack
2011 Garmin-Cervélo

Last edited by DiabloScott; 07-27-11 at 10:46 AM.
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Old 07-27-11, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by DiabloScott View Post
I suspect the team sponsors enjoy having the team prize - gives them some nice photos to use in motivational posters etc. I don't remember seeing the yellow dorsals until a few years ago though.

Your suspicions on verifying the winners though, are ill placed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_cl...Tour_de_France
...
Wiki is improving. I'm not surrised you could find a listing.

Interesting link. I'd forgotten about the team points classification. Now that is a true consolation prize (esp. considering how it was calculated). I could not see how La Vie Clair could have not won it in 86 until I saw how it was calculated and thought about how many flat stages end.

Last edited by Keith99; 07-27-11 at 10:54 AM.
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