reef58

Read the post above you.

fly:yes/land:no

yes, and most of them have post counts around 100 or less.

bellweatherman

These witnesses are only anonymous is the case does not go forth to an arbitration panel hearing. Armstrong has 10 days from the date of being served notice to fight the charges or accept the charges. If he fights it, then all this stuff becomes public.

Homebrew01

I was wondering that too. Perhaps there's some agreement among organizations that if "group A" finds someone guilty of doping, then "groups B & C" must accept the findings and act accordingly.

Allez3

USADA says otherwise, at least in their press release:

https://www.usada.org/media/statement6132012

As in every USADA case, all named individuals are presumed innocent of the allegations unless and until proven otherwise through the established legal process. If a hearing is ultimately held then it is an independent panel of arbitrators, not USADA that determines whether or not these individuals have committed anti-doping rule violations as alleged.

Allez3

I think we all get where you are on this, but I think you really don't have a grasp on body chemistry at all.

Everyone is different. I for one, in the off season (meaning the time of year I'm off the bike) get an elevated platelet level which requires that I take an aspirin (essential thrombocytosis). When I start back up riding in the spring, my body responds by reducing platelet levels, which means if I continue to take aspirin I am susceptible to hemorrhage. My doctors can't figure out why other than it occurs in my bone marrow, and that it is very unusual that the levels decline with exercise - but it's obviously not impossible. It is what it is. What I do know is when I don’t ride I'm susceptible to blot clots which could kill me. This happens in less than 1 in a million people.

I'm not saying Lance didn't dope, and as I said he's stupid if he did in 2009 and 2010. What I am saying, is that physical exercise by him could alter his blood content just as exercise alters mine. It is entirely possible that his Chemo treatment altered how his bood cells are produced (in the bone marrow - because all Chemo is capable of altering your bone marrow function) giving what appear to be elevated levels of RBC (which would give a false positive if someone is looking for signs of blood doping - i.e. elevated red blood cell counts), just as my marrow generates elevated platelet counts. Over time, I will likely need treatment, but for now - at my age, they do nothing especially given that it goes away with an marked increase in exercise and the fact that the treatment itself could actually cause Leukemia.

Learn a little:

https://www.biosbcc.net/doohan/sample...od%20cells.htm

https://www.uihealthcare.com/topics/m...icthrombo.html

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001570/


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001558/

merlinextraligh

My understanding of how it works is that the UCI relies upon the National federation to deal with alleged violations of anti doping rules by riders licensed by that federation.

The U.S. federation in turn relies upon USADA to deal with these issues.

So Armstrong would ultimately be sanctioned by the U.S. federation, which in turn would bar him from UCI competition.

As for the effect on the TDF, I believe it is up to the owners of the TDF, to decide who they recognize as the winner of an event, and what is reflected in their record books. They may however have some understanding with the UCI regarding how they handle this.

It would be interesting to see what ASO does with 1999-2005.

Bjarne Ris is still listed as the 1996 TDF winner, but ASO says they do not recognize him as thier champion.

bellweatherman

You are just full of hot air. You don't think I have a "grasp on body chemistry"? I said nothing about chemistry. Besides, I couldnt care less what you think. Your sources are Armstrong quotes. If you want to enlighten yourself on "body chemistry" read what Dr. Ashenden says about Armstrong's probable Use of performance-enhancing drugs -
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/usad...-ashenden-says

bellweatherman

WADA has signatory organizations. These organizations oversee doping at the national level. Thus, France, Spain, Italy, USA, etc all have national signatory organizations that enforce doping regulations. USADA is the national organization for doping controls Inthe United States and their sanctions and nullifications of past results are recognized by the UCI and other organizations that have agreed to charter with WADA, including the IOC (International Olympic Committee) and UCI.

Racer Ex 

So they never should have suspended Ulrich, Basso, Valverde, Botero, Sevilla, Jascke, Scarponi or any of those guys who bought doping products from Papp-smear, because they didn't test positive. Got it.

So, if I anonymously call in that your kidnapped kid is being held in a warehouse in Queens, you wouldn't pass this on to the cops. Got it.

A witch hunt is when you hunt something that's not real. So Clemens and Bonds didn't dope. Got it.

A lot of good information in this thread.

Allez3

My source is my doctors at UCLA Medical Center thank you very much. You calling them liars? Should I stop taking aspirin in the off season and risk a clot? They don't get paid for commentary, nor are they disgruntled and they do actual research.

(I've expanded the post above to educate you)

himespau 

I think he probably cheated. I also think pretty much everyone at that time was cheating. Does it make it right? Does it mean that he was better than all the other cheaters? Did he cheat better (better drugs) or was it just that he (on drugs) was better than everyone else was (on drugs)? So was the playing field level and he was still the best? Does it really matter? Hell, it was all a long time ago and it's a nice day out. Let's just all go out and ride a bike.

Allez3

Maybe he did, but there's is also the medical possibility that he didn't have to cheat because of how his blood cells are generated post cancer.

fly:yes/land:no

if you really want some laughs/forehead slappers, check out the threads on that popular triathlon board. the bias is palpable.

Kurogashi

According to the WSJ, Floyd (I think that's his name) was Lance's former teammate who won the Tour but was then stripped of his title after being charged for doping. So, him (along with other cyclists) came 'clean' and basically confessed to everything (e.g hotel rooms turned into like hospital areas -- taping all light fixtures to prevent possible microphones, etc.). And the charges is all in a 15 paged letter.

The things people do when they're desperate (referring to Floyd). "If I'm going down, you're all going down with me!"

online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303734204577464882123553256.html

bellweatherman

And Landis wasn't the only one. Tyler Hamilton's statements back up that of Landis. And there are up to 10, probably more, teammates who have testified with information of widespread doping on the teams headed by Bruyneel / Armstrong.

The federal investigation was stopped, but it doesn't mean that they can't start it back up (not as likely) or that federal charges won't still be made (more likely). Johan Bruyneel, more than any other including Armstrong, is in some deep deep doo doo.

bikepro

What you are making clear is that a doping conviction does not require failing a drug test. In typical "arms race" fashion, every time a better test is devised, some doctor comes up with a way to beat the test. I say doctor because I doubt anyone else has the technical skills to analyze a test and devise a means to defeat it. So, the ones who are able to obviously beat the test are the best organized with the best "support staff" i.e.: Ferrari and the like. In this environment, the only ones who get caught are the ones going it alone or whose luck ran out. Thus, the alternative way to get busted is through secondary evidence. For example, leave a bag of your blood at a lab that specializes in blood doping (Ulrich) or have a group of people with first hand knowledge come forward and testify against you. One additional thought. People like Ferrari are the ones who make much of this possible. I would like for them to do jail time, or at least be rendered incapable of plying their craft.

Racer Ex 

These are plenty.

PeaceVegan

This will give Jan five TdF victories!!!

z90

Of course, he was popped for doping, too.

PeaceVegan

Hence my "eye-rolling" emoticon.

himespau 

At this point do they just not award a winner, or would it go to the 3rd place and just assume he didn't dope too?

telebianchi

Remember also that the Federal investigation was not to see if Armstrong doped. It was to see if Armstrong doped AND used federal money from the USPS sponsorship to do that. It could be that the financial trail was such that the feds felt that they could not prove the connection between USPS sponsor money and any alleged doping activities. Similarly, the Feds were likely not as concerned with anything that happened under Discovery, Astana or RadioShack sponsorship. But it seems likely from the USADA letter that the feds shared info with USADA.

Jay68442

Johan Bruyneel needs to give Andy some of the good stuff, he's not looking so hot this season.

canam73

Hence the pointlessness of all of this.