Vino, Vino....vino
11-03-12, 07:54 PM
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Vino, Vino....vino
I'm really not surprised about this story. I'm more surprised that he was willing to shell out $200k for the win.
https://sports.yahoo.com/news/report-...9404--spt.html
https://sports.yahoo.com/news/report-...9404--spt.html
11-03-12, 08:23 PM
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I'm really not surprised about this story. I'm more surprised that he was willing to shell out $200k for the win.
https://sports.yahoo.com/news/report-...9404--spt.html
https://sports.yahoo.com/news/report-...9404--spt.html
11-03-12, 10:04 PM
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I always liked Vino, he seemed to have a lot of grit...too bad.
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11-03-12, 10:15 PM
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Paying off each other for wins has a long history in European racing. Guys pay the others to let them win in the hometown, or pay to let them win so they can take a racing break to prep for a later, bigger race.
you should read "A Dog in a Hat" great book about an Americans eye opening experience racing in Europe.
of course I've never raced in Europe, but I have lived in Italy, Germany, and England, actually yeah, i have raced amateur in Italy on a local team just like here in the states if you want to consider that racing in Europe, and despite the similarity in ancestry and language, it's a vastly different world than America, in every way.
Most people in America who haven't lived overseas just don't realize how totally different our way of seeing the world is. Our outlook is simply an anomaly. You would never imagine in American politics things like the communist or nazi party still having people running for office. Most European countries still do.
europes just a very different place.
you should read "A Dog in a Hat" great book about an Americans eye opening experience racing in Europe.
of course I've never raced in Europe, but I have lived in Italy, Germany, and England, actually yeah, i have raced amateur in Italy on a local team just like here in the states if you want to consider that racing in Europe, and despite the similarity in ancestry and language, it's a vastly different world than America, in every way.
Most people in America who haven't lived overseas just don't realize how totally different our way of seeing the world is. Our outlook is simply an anomaly. You would never imagine in American politics things like the communist or nazi party still having people running for office. Most European countries still do.
europes just a very different place.
Last edited by benajah; 11-04-12 at 08:46 AM.
11-03-12, 10:26 PM
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I still remember when Jan Ullrich bought the 2000 Olympic Gold medal from Vino. You could see them negotiating on live TV, then Ullrich took off while Vino just hung his head. At least Ullrich's buddy Kloden let Vino get the silver medal. That was Vino's rookie year. Since then, Vino has always put on a good show, but you always wondered how honest it was.
Rumors about the Kolobnev bribe have been floating around for years, though earlier reports were 100K euros, which is about half the new number. This latest story doesn't seem to have any more hard evidence than the earlier reports, though maybe people will take this kind of thing more seriously after the Armstrong affair.
Rumors about the Kolobnev bribe have been floating around for years, though earlier reports were 100K euros, which is about half the new number. This latest story doesn't seem to have any more hard evidence than the earlier reports, though maybe people will take this kind of thing more seriously after the Armstrong affair.
11-03-12, 10:39 PM
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Not too troubled by this…or, I'm as bothered by this as I am when a tour GC contender
"gifts" a stage win to rider of a different team for assistance in gaining overall time
"gifts" a stage win to rider of a different team for assistance in gaining overall time
11-04-12, 01:00 AM
#9
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I'm not too bothered by it either. I would think that these kind of arrangements happen in all sports, not just cycling. Beyond sports, I imagine that payoffs are common in business, politics, and pretty much every other arena of competition. This isn't little league.
I see that "Dog in a hat" gets a lot of good press on this forum and I have to say I'm surprised. I have the book and read it about 3 years ago. It's not particularly well written and Joe Parkin carries a nagging grudge and constantly blames his failures on others. The cheating and deal-making that he describes is not novel for those who follow cycling. Perhaps I should re-read it and see if there's something I've missed.
I see that "Dog in a hat" gets a lot of good press on this forum and I have to say I'm surprised. I have the book and read it about 3 years ago. It's not particularly well written and Joe Parkin carries a nagging grudge and constantly blames his failures on others. The cheating and deal-making that he describes is not novel for those who follow cycling. Perhaps I should re-read it and see if there's something I've missed.
11-04-12, 01:14 AM
#10
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I don't see what the big deal is here. They pay domestiques to support the team leader. This is, in some ways, the same, except the guy is on a different team.
Not really the same level of cheating as doping, IMO.
Not really the same level of cheating as doping, IMO.
11-04-12, 01:40 AM
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Paying off each other for wins has a long history in European racing. Guys pay the others to let them win in the hometown, or pay to let them win so they can take a racing break to prep for a later, bigger race.
you should read "A Dog in a Hat" great book about an Americans eye opening experience racing in Europe.
of course I've never raced in Europe, but I have lived in Italy, Germany, and England, actually yeah, i have raced amateur in Italy on a local team just like here in the states if you want to consider that racing in Europe, and despite the similarity in ancestry and language, it's a vastly different world than America, in every way.
Most people in America who haven't lived overseas just don't realize how totally different our way of seeing the world is. Our outlook is simply an anomaly. You would never imagine in American politics things like the communist or nazi party still having people running for office. Most European countries still do.
Remember that Jens Voight served in the army, but the East German, Soviet Blok army, as much as he is loved.
europes just a very different place.
you should read "A Dog in a Hat" great book about an Americans eye opening experience racing in Europe.
of course I've never raced in Europe, but I have lived in Italy, Germany, and England, actually yeah, i have raced amateur in Italy on a local team just like here in the states if you want to consider that racing in Europe, and despite the similarity in ancestry and language, it's a vastly different world than America, in every way.
Most people in America who haven't lived overseas just don't realize how totally different our way of seeing the world is. Our outlook is simply an anomaly. You would never imagine in American politics things like the communist or nazi party still having people running for office. Most European countries still do.
Remember that Jens Voight served in the army, but the East German, Soviet Blok army, as much as he is loved.
europes just a very different place.
Ja
Si
Yes
11-04-12, 04:27 AM
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always liked vino's devil-may-care tactical acumen or lack thereof but now more impressed with his rolling entrepreneurial skills.
wonder how much of that money actually came from him vs sponsors/goverment/rich supporter(s)?
wonder how much of that money actually came from him vs sponsors/goverment/rich supporter(s)?
11-04-12, 10:49 AM
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I'm not saying this hasn't gone on for years and could be as commonplace as doping. It's just that sport of cycling doesn't need any more hits to the integrity of the competition. Like I said earlier, I'm more surprised that he would shell out $200k for the win.
11-04-12, 11:00 AM
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11-04-12, 11:51 AM
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The problem is the gambling side of things.
PMU is heavily involved in cycling as a sponsor and is France's main betting agency. I wouldn't be surprised if this starts yet another ball rolling in regard to race fixing.
The English have been putting people away in jail for match fixing in football (soccer) and cricket in the past decade.
The sport might not have any sponsors left to run it the way things are going.
PMU is heavily involved in cycling as a sponsor and is France's main betting agency. I wouldn't be surprised if this starts yet another ball rolling in regard to race fixing.
The English have been putting people away in jail for match fixing in football (soccer) and cricket in the past decade.
The sport might not have any sponsors left to run it the way things are going.
11-04-12, 12:16 PM
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The problem is the gambling side of things.
PMU is heavily involved in cycling as a sponsor and is France's main betting agency. I wouldn't be surprised if this starts yet another ball rolling in regard to race fixing.
The English have been putting people away in jail for match fixing in football (soccer) and cricket in the past decade.
The sport might not have any sponsors left to run it the way things are going.
PMU is heavily involved in cycling as a sponsor and is France's main betting agency. I wouldn't be surprised if this starts yet another ball rolling in regard to race fixing.
The English have been putting people away in jail for match fixing in football (soccer) and cricket in the past decade.
The sport might not have any sponsors left to run it the way things are going.
11-04-12, 12:19 PM
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At the very least, the UCI needs to be cleaned up pronto.
11-04-12, 02:33 PM
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That is why in all pro sports in the US, gambling is extremely frowned upon. The Europeans deserve what they get (cricket/soccer betting and match fixing scandals) if they let gambling interests get involved with sports of any kind. It is human nature that those two, sports and gambling, are always gonna have corrupting influence on one another.
Although I have to admit that I find the idea of gambling (in any of its many forms) quite distasteful.
11-04-12, 02:46 PM
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And, this match fixing is the very thing I've been saying for months is going to be the new "doping". There are numerous legislative bills either passed or being passed around the globe with regard to effecting the outcome of sporting events. The catch phrase that seems to most frequently be inserted is something to the effect of "with exception of those actions that are a historically 'normal' part of the sport". That appears to allow the quid pro quo of cycling chess games that often take place in the peleton. However, I've yet to see how it will be viewed when dollars trade hands as either a 'payoff' or 'rent a teammate for a day'.
The really sad thing, is that I've been suspicous of Vino's Olympic victory from the day it happened. And that is the "real" problem that the marriage of Olympic and Professional sport has created.
At some point, either, we must accept that Olympic sport is as much about money as any professional pursuit, or, the IOC and Professional governing bodies must split.
The really sad thing, is that I've been suspicous of Vino's Olympic victory from the day it happened. And that is the "real" problem that the marriage of Olympic and Professional sport has created.
At some point, either, we must accept that Olympic sport is as much about money as any professional pursuit, or, the IOC and Professional governing bodies must split.
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11-04-12, 05:04 PM
#21
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1919:
Originally Posted by bigfred
The really sad thing, is that I've been suspicous of Vino's Olympic victory from the day it happened. And that is the "real" problem that the marriage of Olympic and Professional sport has created.
Cheating in sports didn't start or intensify just because the Olympics allowed pros to compete. There was plenty of cheating in the Olympics before pros were allowed in; the East German government was notorious for pumping its athletes with just about any chemical they could get.
11-04-12, 05:16 PM
#22
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T,FTFY
1919:
Whatever
Cheating in sports didn't start or intensify just because the Olympics allowed pros to compete. There was plenty of cheating in the Olympics before pros were allowed in; the East German government was notorious for pumping its athletes with just about any chemical they could get.
1919:
Whatever
Cheating in sports didn't start or intensify just because the Olympics allowed pros to compete. There was plenty of cheating in the Olympics before pros were allowed in; the East German government was notorious for pumping its athletes with just about any chemical they could get.
I don't believe that Vino "cheated" in either case. I can believe that in one case he came to a financially benefitial arrangement, and in the other I believe he was more or less gifted a result as a retirement present from an apprecative bunch of colleagues.
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11-05-12, 11:30 AM
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Paying off each other for wins has a long history in European racing. Guys pay the others to let them win in the hometown, or pay to let them win so they can take a racing break to prep for a later, bigger race.
you should read "A Dog in a Hat" great book about an Americans eye opening experience racing in Europe.
of course I've never raced in Europe, but I have lived in Italy, Germany, and England, actually yeah, i have raced amateur in Italy on a local team just like here in the states if you want to consider that racing in Europe, and despite the similarity in ancestry and language, it's a vastly different world than America, in every way.
Most people in America who haven't lived overseas just don't realize how totally different our way of seeing the world is. Our outlook is simply an anomaly. You would never imagine in American politics things like the communist or nazi party still having people running for office. Most European countries still do.
europes just a very different place.
you should read "A Dog in a Hat" great book about an Americans eye opening experience racing in Europe.
of course I've never raced in Europe, but I have lived in Italy, Germany, and England, actually yeah, i have raced amateur in Italy on a local team just like here in the states if you want to consider that racing in Europe, and despite the similarity in ancestry and language, it's a vastly different world than America, in every way.
Most people in America who haven't lived overseas just don't realize how totally different our way of seeing the world is. Our outlook is simply an anomaly. You would never imagine in American politics things like the communist or nazi party still having people running for office. Most European countries still do.
europes just a very different place.
In the end, the man won the gold medal in the Olympic road race, and there is no way in hell anyone there was taking a pay-off. So, hats off to him, I've always enjoyed his personality and his racing style. And that's exactly the way he went out...in style.
11-05-12, 11:48 AM
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This is rather old news. Vino's been accused of paying of Kolobnev for a couple of years, and he claims it was due to a business investment. Who knows? They're both Russian, or Soviet, or somewhere east of what's left of the Iron Curtain so it could be they do investments together. More importantly, who cares? Vino got into the winning break for LBL, just as he did for the Olympics. It's not as if he bribed the entire peloton to give him an armchair ride to the win.