Jiggle

I got wrangled into helping some college students with their senior design project, some sort of aero recumbent thing. There's going to be a competition in a few months, and have they put me as an advisor on materials, design choices, drivetrain selection (Shimano 11 speed if its up to me), or anything else I'm good at? No. They've put me in charge of getting them in shape.

So here's my question. Can I give them a training plan to ride their standard bikes, or should I stipulate they ride a recumbent design? I don't ride recumbents so I need your wisdom.

Please halp. Thanks.

Jeff Wills

Aerobic fitness is a good thing, so... yes, a training program on upright bikes should transfer. However, all of the riders should have time in the recumbent position. The riding skills and reactions are different and riding a recumbent requires some acclimatization.

If this is for the ASME competition, there's forum devoted to it on the Recumbents.com site: The Recumbent Bicycle and Human Powered Vehicle Information Center

BlazingPedals

While aerobic conditioning follows from one platform to the other, I've found that muscles are recruited a bit differently and the speed won't be there unless they've been on recumbents for at least 500 miles. In fact, even going between different recumbents can cause a drop in speed. If I've been exclusively on my highracer for a month or two, then go to my NoCom, I'm the slowest guy in my group for about a week.

Anna Becker

Either bike will get and keep them in shape. To me it's more of an issue of which type of riding they have available and can do. Do they have access to bike trails, etc? Or do they need to be at home or in a gym? Maybe you should consider a challenge, have a couple do a routine on a regular bike and a couple do a routine on their aero recumbent. Take measurements before and after and declare a winner.

Retro Grouch 

That's what I think too. The better your training platform mimics your project bike, the better your fitness will also transfer.

If I were going to prep a DF racing team the first thing that I would do would be to examine the bike fit for each rider. I don't see why this should be any different.

rydabent

I can assure you that there is such a thing as bent legs. When I was riding my DF bikes by late summer the muscle on the outside of my lower thigh would get rock hard. Now after more than 10 years on bents, both the muscles on the outside and inside of my lower thighs seem to get equally hard. Sorry I dont know the name of those specific muscles.

I guess my advice to get the most out of what they are building, I would advise training on a bent. Even further one that approximates the pedals in relationship to the seat. That would mean either a LWB bent or a SWB bent.

Jiggle

Thanks for the replies. They'll have to suffer on the stationary bents in the gym for at least once a week.

StephenH

I was intrigued quite a few years ago when people were attempting to make a pedal-powered airplane, and eventually flew such a craft across the English Channel as I recall. They had a number of people who were working on that project, but they didn't just draw straws to see who pedaled it, either, as I recall, they got a most excellent cyclist to actually power it. And I think similar things are done at Battle Mountain The moral being that selection of the cyclist(s) may be the most critical aspect of your whole project when it's all said and done. With that in mind, don't just train the riders, do try-outs for riders, and if possible, recruit some better riders.


If you were building a race car, you wouldn't go to a lot of time and effort designing the best body, suspension, etc., then when the project was finished, look around the shop and say "Well, now, what engine shall we lob into this thing?" That engine would get a LOT of thought.


By the way, I feel like I'm a pretty decent cyclist, but there are people of similar age, that look to be of similar build and similar fitness levels, that can ride circles around me. And some I can ride circles around, too. We're not all the same.

BlazingPedals

I'd like to know more about the project. What sort of aero recumbent? A velomobile? Streamliner? Are they making their own bikes and racing them, or are they all riding a single project? Pics?

Jiggle

All drivers have to be in the mechanical engineering program. Yes, we are doing tryouts. FTP and sprint tests on a stationary recumbent.

Jiggle

I haven't seen any models and from what I hear they haven't started building it yet.

StephenH

I assume these are for the ASME Human Powered Vehicle contests. which have been ongoing for a number of years. Google "ASME HPV" and you should pull up some pictures and all. I think they race them on a closed course, so you need better steering than the Battle-Mountain-type, but that's the basic idea. Speeds are lower than Battle Mountain, and since this is an educational deal, you've got a lot of people starting from scratch and re-inventing the wheel, rather than continuing development of successful prior models.

BlazingPedals

The University of Toronto brings a bunch of students every year to the Michigan HPV Rally at Waterford Hills. There are usually a couple of vehicles and everyone gets to ride at least a few laps. Here's a pic of their bike from last year, it looks like it was a tilting FWD trike. (Minus the wheels in the pic.)

79pmooney

Long before that flight I was an engineering student. Did the basic lift, drag and power calcs for human flight. It didn't take long to see that for it to happen, the plane couldn't weigh much over 100 pounds and that it would have to be powered by a bike racer. I did that calc ~1973. When I saw MIT's plans and target plane weight, I knew right then it wasn't flying. It didn't. The Gossamer designer got the message (telepathically?). Weight down and bike racer powered. Yup!

Ben

Retro Grouch 

I remember going to see the Gossamer Condor displayed at the St Louis Science Center. I don't remember exactly how much it weighed, but it wasn't much. The memory that I carry with me today is how something that big could possibly weigh that little.

Incidentally, as I recall, the riding position in both the original Gossamer Condor and the Gossamer Albatross that crossed the English Channel pretty well mimicked a conventional DF racing bike.

Jeff Wills

Gossamer Condor was recumbent, Gossamer Albatross was upright.

Long, long ago I met Gossamer Albatross pilot/powerplant Bryan Allen at an event. I was a little star-struck and I got an autographed t-shirt. It's long since lost.

A couple years ago I was visiting Washington D.C. I managed to visit the Gossamer Condor at the Smithsonian Air & Space Museum (it's quite dusty), the Gossamer Albatross at the Smithsonian Udvar-Hazy Center near Dulles Airport, and the MIT Daedalus 87 is hanging in Dulles Concourse B:

sch

Concur with rydabent. There is different use of gluteus and to lesser degree thigh muscles on a bent compare to DF, so
high wattage riding will definitely need bent training for a month or so before the 'real ride'. DF riding will be good for
CV conditioning but muscles recruited will differ enough to require on bike training. Helpful also to know in advance,
of any cooling or fitting/ergonomic factors if the bent is to be enclosed. Recent high speed runs at Battle Mtn used
cameras and viewing screen for driver, who was fully enclosed.

BlazingPedals

Generally, camera bikes are not allowed in most racing, not since Sean Costin had his camera give out during a race in a velodrome. I hear it wasn't pretty. Batle Mountain is an exception; no limits there except for being 100% human power.