bowzette

I just had my 3rd back surgery and I will need a 4th one at some point-months or a year or two. I've had fusion at L4-5 and will have to have fusion or disc replacement at L2-3, Also have had or will have three laminectemys, herniated disc and bulged disc. I plan on continuing riding my road bikes but I was thinking doing base, endurance miles on the reclined tadpole trike which provides lot of back support being in a reclined position would be a good idea. The road bikes don't seem to hurt my back or I am not aware they do. I ride 10 hours a week and do a lot of the riding on a Wahoo Kickr following TrainerRoad. I would do the harder workouts on the road bike or do a group ride on the road bike and endurance miles on the trike. I am looking at the Catrike Dumont and ICE Sprint 26 X FS. Both full suspension trikes. The ICE, especially with the hardshell seat, has a much lower seat angle. Great for cutting through the wind, but also I would think better for my back being in a more reclined position. The worse position for the lower spine is sitting upright in a chair. I don't sit upright on my road bike but in a reasonably aggressive forward position with hips rotated forward.

Seat Angle
Dumont-42degree SA
ICE 35 or 28 degree SA depending on mesh or hardshell seats

Full Suspension
I assume riding on my fairly rough roads the FS would work better than a Cat 700 or Expedition w/o suspension?

Any input on FS, SA, hardshell seats or general thoughts?

BlazingPedals

Backs are funny things. Sometimes stretching out over an upright bike can be better for a bad back, sometimes it's excruciating. For bents, suspension is mostly for control, especially if you have a mesh seat back to absorb shock. Something like the Expedition with slightly fatter tires might work fine without the extra weight of suspension.

Group rides will be a challenge on any trike. Or maybe I should say they'll require a change in mindset. Trikes don't mix with uprights. They can't draft off you, and you will have a different speed profile -- mostly slower for a trike. If speed is going to be semi-important, look at the gearing numbers for the various trikes. The stock gearing will tell you a lot about the speed capability the trike has. An 85" top gear is telling you that the manufacturer didn't design it to go fast. Carbon shell seats provide good power transfer, and if they fit they're supremely comfortable; but if they don't, there's no adjusting around them.

bowzette

Thanks Blazing. I wouldn't attempt a group ride on a trike unless I rode a level down-a C ride instead of a B/B+ ride. I was thinking of a trike to supplement not replace my road bikes. I think i could do much of my base/endurance miles on the trike. three hours at 115 bpm HR is the same no matter what I'm riding. My non medical knowledge thought mixing forward lean and laid back position with support might be good. i meet with the surgeon on the 5th and I will discuss this. The forward lean position is great for releaving nerve pain due to stenosis but stenosis is temporary (or have been with me; had three of them and will need a 4th) and thus far has been cured with laminectemy. But I'm thinking structural spine issues like collapsed disc that requires fusion would benefit from a recumbent position and support. It is easier to avoid bad sections of the road on a bike than a trike. Also a traditional DF allows the rider to lift off the saddle and take the hit with the legs and arms. It may be the DF is better. Quien Sabe?

Juan Foote

I used to own a Catrike, and although unfamiliar with the specific model you are mentioning, as a past owner...get one with rear suspension.

Trikes are harder to push fast than a road bike. You don't use the same muscle groups. Your initial rides will likely be a whole lot of WTH I thought I was stronger than this.....going up hill is a study in patience. Pushing hard can be tough on your mid section and mid back, so keep that in mind.

I found that regardless of how much I rode it, I gained belly riding 'bent.

VegasTriker

Caveat: I haven't ridden any of the suspension trikes. I currently ride a Catrike 700 and love it but my back is still in decent shape even at my advanced age.

You are looking at two of the more expensive trikes on the market so it would be wise to do a test ride before you plunk down that much cash. Unfortunately they are both in short supply at this time so finding a recumbent shop with one in stock to test ride is probably not going to happen. From what I have read elsewhere, ordering a Catrike Dumont entails about a 9 week wait for delivery and HPV is also way behind on delivery from Europe. Both come from manufacturers with sterling reputation for quality and excellent handling.

Catrike Dumont $4,150 and up Utah Trikes - Catrike Dumont Full Suspension Folding Trike
HP Velotechnic FS $4,590 and up with mesh seat Utah Trikes - HP Velo Scorpion FS 26 Folding Trike

As to the difference between hard-shell and mesh seats. All of my three trikes have had mesh seats and all three were very comfortable. If you live in a hot area or high humidity area, a breathable seat might be better. I've read a few comments on riders ending up sitting in a pool of sweat after riding a hard shell bike in those conditions. If you want to know how others with serious back problems (one of many mentioned in this thread) check out A BORING Thread about Fat, Crippled, Handicapped, out-of-shape Trike Riders: PART II - BentRider Online Forums and maybe ask there for what some have experienced under similar circumstances.

bowzette

Thanks. Doc won't let me ride for 6 weeks. When I do it will be on the Kickr and start with 4 months of base building. Not looking at the Velotechnic but the ICE Sprint 26 X FS. Probably at least $1200 more than the Dumont. Also I will consider then new Cat Road AR. It is FS, 4 Degree lower SA than the Dumont and 4 lbs lighter. It doesn't fold and is $600 less than the Dumont. Rear wheel is 20" with the pros and cons of the 20" v 26". I live in Austin where the Easy Street Recumbent shop is located. He has all three models in stock but I need a cut boom to test ride. I thinking of suggesting to the owner I will buy a Cat boom for him to cut at his cost but I get credit for the cost of the boom if I buy any trike from him. If I buy a Cat he can cut the boom on the Cat I buy and keep the short boom for future test rides of the legged challenged. If I buy the ICE he has the short boom for demos as well.

BlazingPedals

Is there a reason why you're looking at trikes instead of bikes? Bents come in 2-wheel versions, too, you know... With the recent emphasis on trikes the last few years, it's easy for newcomers to overlook the recumbent bikes.

bowzette

I had a Phantom for a couple of months five years ago when I couldn't get rid of the "mother of all saddle sores" for three months. I bought the Phantom used off BROL at a good price. The day it arrived the saddle sore healed of course. After I got over" the white knuckle I'm going to kill myself on this thing" I realized it would take a year to reach the same level of fitness as I had and could ride on my road bikes. So I sold it. I realize the day will come when I can't or shouldn't ride a bike- either road bike or recumbent. If you ride a bike you will fall off. Or I may not have the sense of balance for a bike. I'm not there yet at close to 72. I can still ride reasonably strongly for recreational riding. B+ group. I can average 17 mph with 1300' of elevation on a 50 mile course riding my fixed gear bike solo. But performance in the 70s falls off quickly for most riders/runners. Blazing i admit to reviewing recumbent bike manufactures yesterday. I started getting the "urge". The trike had the appeal in that it is different from my road bikes and there is more long term riding potential. If otherwise healthy I could putter about on a trike at 90! But maybe a recumbent purchase should be based on what I can ride in the next several years and delay the trike until I'm "old" Was looking at a P38 Lightning with more laid back areo seat and their small handlebar faring. Reasonably fast on the flats, climbs well for a bent and really low seat height for short legs. Or maybe the cheaper Phantom which seems a good buy. The doc may say she doesn't see any significant benefit to reducing 30% DF riding and substituting bent. I anticipate if I get a bent over time there will be less DF riding and more bent riding at least on the road just to ageing. High wheel bent bikes don't work well with my short legs.

JanMM

Keep in mind that riding a bike - whether DF or recumbent - can help maintain or improve one's ability to balance. Which is a very good thing for those of us who aren't getting any younger.

bowzette

Good point JanMM. I plan on riding my DF bikes as long as I can. I don't see the end in sight at the moment at 71. But if I decide riding some portion of my riding on a recumbent which will probably increase with time and DF time decrease, do I invest in a trike which I can ride into the sunset or a bent bike that I can zip around on now. I can sell the bikes when I can't ride them anymore but they will have very little value. Maybe I'm over-thinking the issue and struggling with issues too far out.

rydabent

Or like myself, I have both a bent bike and a trike, therefore I have a choice of the best tool for the ride at hand.

JanMM

Those whose primary exercise consists of trike-riding would be most lacking of balance-enhancing activity. Which isn't to say that those who cannot ride a bike should not ride a trike. Or that those who simply want to ride a trike should not.

Juan Foote

Something else overlooked in this post.

How are you getting this trike around?

Hopefully you can ride right from your house, but at some point you will be looking to go on adventure rides elsewhere. Most trikes weight around 40+ # With back issue it can cause you problem picking one up. Additionally, there is (or was) not a whole lot by way of bike racks for a trike, so think about a truck or trailer.
One of the more interesting approaches I have seen was to use a lawn service trailer with the tailgate, hitched behind the car. Low and easy to roll up on.

Obviously you know your back issue better than we do so picking one up to load may not be issue at all.

bowzette

Juan I can ride hundreds of miles from my house on county roads with little traffic and generally a good line of sight. I have a Hond C-RV. I don't think I need a folding trike as that means picking up 45 lbs which I can do but not lean forward with the weight. Maybe I could set it on the edge of the lip at the rear on something like cardbord and pull it forward. But that doesn't sound like a good idea. I think I will be able to lift the front or rear, place the wheel(s) on the lip and roll it in between the front seats. I also found a great looking rack that fits into a hitch that I already have on the Honda. It tilts down to place the trike on.

adamrice 

Having done a bit of riding on a Catrike Speed, I have some observations that might be relevant.
- The Speed has a very laid-back position. It does not have suspension. I found that I could not rely on the headrest unless the road was glass-smooth. Not sure if holding your neck forward would stress your back, but it's something to keep in mind.
- The Catrike seat mesh will stretch and bottom out against the buckles on the back, with your vertebra resting directly on the buckles. You really don't want that. Insert a bit of high-density foam between the layers to prevent that.

bowzette

Thanks for the responses. Right now I am leaning strongly towards the Dumont. It seems to be a good compromise. Not perfect. I would love to have a 700 but that isn't good for me in the short run and not practical in the long run. The ICE Sprint 26 X FS should be faster with the hard shell seat because the lowest SA is 28 degrees but it cost $1200-$1500 more than the Dumont. The weight is about the same for both. And it is sort of a race between turtles. Both are piggy heavy by my road bike standards. I suspect around 45 lbs with everything on it including three water bottles. Where I live the wind blows 15-20 mph a lot. Nothing to break it up. A typical 50 mile ride is only 1100'-1300' of elevation gain but a lot of wind. Would a Terracycle large faring have a significant impact on increase in average speed under these conditions?

Retro Grouch 

I'd want to try it before committing myself. Our trikes won't fit inside of our Honda Element without folding.

bowzette

thanks Retro. I plan on going to the recumbent shop Thursday. I may or may not be able to do a test drive but I will have them attempt to put a Pocket and Dumont (not at the same time) into the back of the C-RV. I was thinking with either the boom end or rear wheel between the seats even the Dumont would fit-but maybe not. I will have plastic to protect the sides of the seat from grease.

VegasTriker

When you do the fit test, see if you can lift the trike yourself. My Catrike 700 fits perfectly inside my Scion XB with the front passenger seat pushed forward. It is rather easy to get in once the front wheels are up and on the rear of the vehicle. I'm not sure someone with a bad back would find handling it much fun because it is bulky. It is 10 pounds lighter than the Catrike Dumont. I would think that a folded trike would be more difficult because you can't use the front wheels to slide it in. The only thing I ever do is to cover the chainring with an old t-shirt to protect the seat.

bowzette

Thanks. I will meet the doc today and get short term instructions related to recovery from the surgery last week and longer term instructions. I plan on doing weight resistance training as I was doing prior to surgery. I'm not weak but have to be careful due to the back and prior rotator cuff surgery-couldn't lift more than 10 lbs for 18 months. I only use weight machines, not free weights. I have a hitch on my C-RV. Hitchrider has a carrier that tilts down and looks like it wouldn't be difficult to get a trike on. I agree that the concept of a folding trike at 43 lbs doesn't sound like a great idea for my back. I would not have to transport a trike very often.

Retro Grouch 

My trick:
1. Stand beside the left side of the trike (away from the chain).
2. Grab the top of the seat frame with your right hand.
3. Grab the main frame in front of the cruciform with your left hand.

A trike only weighs 40 pounds (or so) so that's do-able for most people. The problem is that it's bulky and your leverage is all wrong. My method gets you in nice and close and makes it much easier to lift.

bowzette

Any experience with a non-suspended Catrike riding Big Apples or BA + with tire pressure on the lower end of the scale? The county roads where I live are well worn chipped seal but not very well maintained-a few potholes, cracks, some bumps and spots where the pavement dropped maybe and inch +or-. I avoid these on a two wheel bike. I think a three wheel trike will hit some of this. I weigh 140 and can run the tires on the lower end but still keep the tires reasonably inflated. My reading is that a wide soft tire like BA or + can be faster on this type of surface than a narrow hard performance tire due to a it more tire contact and less bouncing around. My question is how much suspension effect from BA tire not from worn chipped seal but from going over a 1" drop, big crack or small pothole with a Cat. cushion seat pad riding a rigid frame Expedition or even Pocket-I'm only 5'5"?

Retro Grouch 

I don't have any experience with 2" tires but here's what I do know:

Our unsuspended Catrikes have 1.5" tires. My practice is to top them up to 70 psi. After a couple of weeks they bleed down to around 55 psi (or so) so I pump them back up. I don't do anything in between. I don't subjectively feel any performance difference. I don't notice a speed difference other than normal day-to-day variations. The bumps feel about the same too. We live near Missouri's crushed limestone Katy Trail so we ride on it a lot. It's definitely a bumpier ride than a black top trail.

I sometimes think that I'd like to try Big Apples or something similar but it seems like kind of an expensive experiment since I'm basically satisfied with my Marathon Race tires.

Hoopdriver

My method as well. I find that lining things up so you lift and move toward your destination (truck bed or repair stand in my case) in one flowing move. If I misjudge the aim, it's a bit awkward.

bowzette

I should be able to do that. Just squat to reach the front of the cruciform, keep back straight and lift with the legs :-)