Chaco

I've ridden my Stratus XP now for more than 3 years, including 8 centuries, spanning over 7,000 miles.

Anyone who thinks there's no disadvantage going up a hill is just kidding themselves. Anything beyond an 8% grade is hellacious in a bent. The reason? Simple, you can't stand up.

To replicate the problem, go to your local gym, put some 15 lb. barbells in your hand and start doing bench presses. Sure, the first 50 are easy - but when you get near 100, you'll feel the burn.

This is the problem going up hills. Your leg muscles, especially your quads, get no relief. DF riders can stand up, use gravity, and give their quads a rest. We can't.

"Bent muscles" are basically quads and, to a lesser extent, your hamstrings. Getting your "bent muscles" means little more than training your quads to output energy for a longer and longer period of time, in the same position, without giving out.

BlazingPedals

I think 25hz said it as well as I could have, so I won't try to add to that, but regarding the gravity thing...

The difference in moving weight is that when upright riders stand, they can use their Achilles tendons and calf muscles. They can 'spring' up, while we can't; we're forced to push on the pedals where we have the least mechanical advantage - the 'top' of the stroke. So according to physics we're doing the same amount of work, but biomechanically, the standing position works better. My analysis - dissenting arguments welcome.

greybum

25Hz, I'm just trying to weigh all of the information and opinions contributed. Probably I should be more careful when expressing thoughts. Below, have tried to defend against some of your criticisms, but this kind of thing can go on forever.

Whether force is supplied sinusoidally, or constantly, it implies doing the same work of lifting bike and rider up a hill - in the same time.
Whether Ellipticals make it easier for the rider to supply that force-profile, is a seperate subject. (When I'm working again, I'll get an elliptical chainring. Maybe order it with a new bent.)

> Who is mis-perceiving that bents are slower?
Read gcottay's post on how perception may be partly explained by unfit riders unfairly blaming the bent.
However, many posts, including yours, make convincing arguments that there's truth in perception.
I think to believe something for the wrong reason is to have a "misperception".

> If you're talking about on the flat or downhills, they're definitely faster.
> Nothing to guess about there either.
Maybe they are typically faster... There's some things I like about the Haluzak Horizon, but aerodynamics isn't one. The seat sticks-out (slightly) to right and left of body. I sit quite upright (can't tuck arms, shoulders and head like on upright.) With arms extended to both sides for USS, I'm a 2'x3' piece of plywood pushing through the air. True, my legs are out front, slightly lower than the rest of me. Wheels are small - 16" in front, 24" rear - more rolling resistance than 26" tires. If my bent was definately faster than uprights, they wouldn't coast past me going downhill. I weigh about 180 (weight/surface-area ratio isn't abnormal.)

> You have to use the leg muscles MORE, not differently.
The bent is forcing me to "spin" to get up hills. By spinning, I mean trying to apply a more uniform force throughout peddle-stroke (around 90 rpm.) For me, this training is shifting a burden to muscles less used on the DF. That's what I meant by "training different muscles".

greybum

With the DF, I'm wondering if it's not only the standing, but being able to favor muscles that are efficient at turning calories into power. Seems to me the muscles used for walking up an incline might be most similar, though, I've no idea about their efficiency.

I like the term "biomechanically" better than (my) "ergonomically"!

Chaco

It's basically quads. But the difference is this. DF's can use their quads for explosive surges of power. Then, when their quads get tired, they can alter their position. The ability to change position is like resting between sets of a weight lifting exercise.

In other words, it's like doing leg lifts at the gym. You can do 3 sets of 8 at 400 lbs, with a minute of rest in between each set. That's the DF. OR you can do 1 set of 50 at 150 lbs. That's the Bent. It's the same quad muscle, but one's being trained for explosive strength, and one's being trained for endurance.

The bent rider needs muscles trained for endurance. When people refer to "bent muscles", that's actually what they're talking about.

pro_jo

I love my Q-Rings. I only installed two of the three in the set, i.e. the big and middle rings. However, I ride mostly on a rails-to-trails.