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TRaffic Jammer 05-26-09 10:50 AM

Check out Vuze as well, it searches all popular torrent sites at once and is a downloader.
http://www.vuze.com

If you can I'd advise against using Explorer at all if you can avoid it.

Woot!
X-copper sponsored forum site for the Highway Traffic Act

http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/

Ontario E-Law site... sweet!!!
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca

jet sanchEz 05-26-09 11:47 AM

I really want them to legislate those damned E-bike things. A vehicle that can get up to speeds in excess of 40 km/h without a license is completely insane. I had one tailing me the other day with two riders on it and the guy was riding it like he was a cylcist, in between moving cars and parked cars. I would guesstimate that with the two riders and the bike, the vehicle would have been close to 300 lbs.

My memory of physics is pretty bad but 300lbs travelling at 25-30 km/h plus an unobservant pedestrian/jet sanchez equals one dead pedestrian/jet sanchez

2wheelsgood 05-26-09 12:16 PM

I hate those e-bikes. Or maybe I hate the people that ride them. I wouldn't say that riding them like a cyclist is the problem. It's the people that switch from vehicular style riding to bicycle style riding at their convenience. Not to mention they're super lame. Without the speed they're just a lazy person's bicycle.

And dang is it ever windy out there! I almost got blowed off my two wheeler a couple o' times!

_K. 05-26-09 12:25 PM


Originally Posted by TRaffic Jammer (Post 8984698)
Does anyone have the Highway Act highlighting the cycling sections as it pertains to riding in Toronto?
At least one car of law enforcement officers isn't enjoying Bike Month™ hassled me for a half hour on the way to work this morning for passing a car on the left in the curb lane.

...

Threading.. what's the official ruling on that one?

Best I can read is these 4 paragraphs of Section X, 148.1

Vehicles or equestrians overtaking others

(5) Every person in charge of a vehicle or on horseback on a highway who is overtaking another vehicle or equestrian shall turn out to the left so far as may be necessary to avoid a collision with the vehicle or equestrian overtaken, and the person overtaken is not required to leave more than one-half of the roadway free. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 148 (5).

=> so yes you pulled out to the left, in the curb lane, and the motorist didn't give you more than half of the lane. Seems fine to me.

Bicycles overtaken

(6) Every person on a bicycle or motor assisted bicycle who is overtaken by a vehicle or equestrian travelling at a greater speed shall turn out to the right and allow the vehicle or equestrian to pass and the vehicle or equestrian overtaking shall turn out to the left so far as may be necessary to avoid a collision. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 148 (6).

=> This dumb*** section has no corollary "Bicycles overtaking".

Driver unable to turn out is to stop

(7) Where one vehicle is met or overtaken by another, if by reason of the weight of the load on either of the vehicles so meeting or on the vehicle so overtaken the driver finds it impracticable to turn out, he or she shall immediately stop, and, if necessary for the safety of the other vehicle and if required so to do, he or she shall assist the person in charge thereof to pass without damage. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 148 (7).

=> cagers caught in gridlock are already stopped, all good.

Passing vehicle going in same direction

(8) No person in charge of a vehicle shall pass or attempt to pass another vehicle going in the same direction on a highway unless the roadway,

(a) in front of and to the left of the vehicle to be passed is safely free from approaching traffic; and

=> true in the gridlock threading scenario

(b) to the left of the vehicle passing or attempting to pass is safely free from overtaking traffic. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 148 (8).

=> again true in gridlock threading scenario.

I think you're good as far as the provincial act goes.

TRaffic Jammer 05-26-09 12:29 PM

That was brought up by the officer this morning.... re the threading.. he brought up motorcycles not being allowed to thread lanes to which I mentioned weight/speed ratios. I said a motorbike threading and hitting a car at the side is quite the destructive force whereas I would bounce.


Section 148 subsection 6...you say? ^^^heehee^^ great stuff....
I'm making a little cycling booklet.
Something we can all carry with pertinent passages marked. BUT not until everything has been verified by someone in authority/law.

cavernmech 05-26-09 01:13 PM


Originally Posted by TRaffic Jammer (Post 8986095)
That was brought up by the officer this morning.... re the threading.. he brought up motorcycles not being allowed to thread lanes to which I mentioned weight/speed ratios. I said a motorbike threading and hitting a car at the side is quite the destructive force whereas I would bounce.


Section 148 subsection 6...you say? ^^^heehee^^ great stuff....
I'm making a little cycling booklet.
Something we can all carry with pertinent passages marked. BUT not until everything has been verified by someone in authority/law.

Paging Iherald ESQ.

_K. 05-26-09 01:35 PM

The thing about motorcycles is that they are entitled to the full lane, at all times, and with no exception. Ergo if they are threading, they're just greedy and should rightly be stopped from having it both ways.

Cyclists have to share the lane at all times and may take the full lane on rare occasions when they dare to put their life on the line. Threading is just sharing the lane, same as it ever was.

TRaffic Jammer 05-26-09 01:40 PM

That's the way I see it as well. I'd love to get some law enforcement types out on bikes in traffic.
Although for the point of the booklet I'd need to hire a lawyer I imagine so that the actual cases/precedents can be researched and documented.

_K. 05-26-09 01:48 PM

Hehehe I'd love to see an officer get assigned to "unmarked police bicycle" duty. Is there any officer on bike duty that would willingly ride a 40 hour week without that uniform on? Doubt it.

TRaffic Jammer 05-26-09 01:56 PM

Those uniforms mean EVERYONE behaves on the streets. I've seen cars be sooo patient with bike officers whereas we'd have been half run off the road or at least blared at. I think my apathy has run out ... it activism time. I soooo wish I've taken down that officers number.

iherald 05-26-09 02:43 PM

Here is some pages from the Annotated Highway Traffic Act. It's from 2006, as my firm doesn't do this type of work, we don't keep it up to date. But, there are a series of cases listed and a little summary of each. Obviously this isn't legal advice, but information is never a bad thing.

http://www.gigasize.com/get.php?d=f3kvmvnoyjd

iherald 05-26-09 02:44 PM

Here is some pages from the Annotated Highway Traffic Act. It's from 2006, as my firm doesn't do this type of work, we don't keep it up to date. But, there are a series of cases listed and a little summary of each. Obviously this isn't legal advice, but information is never a bad thing.

http://www.gigasize.com/get.php?d=f3kvmvnoyjd

TRaffic Jammer 05-26-09 03:04 PM

^^^you're the shiz^^^

I think I'm going to approach a couple Cyclist Union buddies to see what my next move might be.

operator 05-26-09 04:26 PM

There are places in the world where lane splitting is legal for motorcycles. For example california.

operator 05-26-09 04:27 PM


Originally Posted by jet sanchEz (Post 8985880)
I really want them to legislate those damned E-bike things. A vehicle that can get up to speeds in excess of 40 km/h without a license is completely insane. I had one tailing me the other day with two riders on it and the guy was riding it like he was a cylcist, in between moving cars and parked cars. I would guesstimate that with the two riders and the bike, the vehicle would have been close to 300 lbs.

My memory of physics is pretty bad but 300lbs travelling at 25-30 km/h plus an unobservant pedestrian/jet sanchez equals one dead pedestrian/jet sanchez


Well if we're going to F=MA it then a 250 lb rider on a 50lb touring bike will be the same deal.

cavernmech 05-26-09 06:20 PM


Originally Posted by _K. (Post 8986550)
Hehehe I'd love to see an officer get assigned to "unmarked police bicycle" duty. Is there any officer on bike duty that would willingly ride a 40 hour week without that uniform on? Doubt it.

I knew an undercover cop a few years back that rode his bike most of the time. Nice guy and fully understanding of cyclists plight. He would regale me with stories of pulling over loutish drivers and sticking it to em. He was equally harsh on reckless cyclists but knew the difference between reckless and defensive.

elTwitcho 05-26-09 06:30 PM

I don't know the thing with threading to me is that it always struck me as being legal from my understanding of the law.

For instance, if I'm in a car, and a car in front of me is obstructing the lane and there's room for me to pass while still in the lane, I can legally do so.

So if I'm on my bike, which is defined as a vehicle, and a car is in front of me obstructing my lane, why can't I pass it exactly? If I'm on the right of the lane divider, I'm passing an obstruction within my own lane. What's illegal about that?

TRaffic Jammer 05-26-09 06:30 PM

...and how are you Keith?
I understand their glich regarding threading... as standstill/gridlock traffic is not an obstruction per say, but try to find someone who is going to try and enforce that on a systemic level.... as opposed to just trying to bully some guy they happen to have on the side of the road.

Ill Mitch 05-26-09 07:32 PM

You didn't hear it from me, but, there are some undercover cops riding these bikes this summer. ;)

smp22 05-26-09 08:49 PM

My front wheel got stolen today. Kind of a sh__ty buzz .. I was in the habit of carrying around two locks for a long time but with so much stuff in my backpack these days I omitted the extra lock today. Bad move.

Anyway, I know it's a long shot but if anyone sees a CPX22 laced to a formula hub (all silver) for sale .. give me a heads up please! Long shot that it is...
bummer man

I swear I always wonder how people get away with this stuff. High traffic area right in front of the Ted Rogers school of management on Dundas. Parked from 9:00am to 12:00pm. I know it happens all the time and in high traffic areas but in all my time living in the city I have yet to see someone walk up to a bike and take a wheel.

smp22 05-26-09 08:56 PM

Regarding the rules of the road .. passing cars on the left when they are turning or pulling over is something i always do. I never even questioned it. There was a cycling guide I got from urbane a while back that actually said it was proper procedure. I know that a free cycling guide isn't the HTA but I seem to remember that the guide was blessed by the city.
Either way, I think with so much of these cases the law is pretty grey and if I ever get a ticket for something like that I will take it to court.
One thing I learned from my years of riding motorcycles in this city .. with cops it's all got to be "yes sir" and "thank you sir" and zero attitude or sarcasm. The time to plead your case is in court, not usually at the side of the road. That being said, I think they primarily target simple things to enforce like no lights, running reds, stop signs etc. You can't really argue that stuff. Cops don't know the HTA as well as most people think I gather, not to mention that the odds of you winning in court for something like passing on the left .. I doubt they would bother. That's why cagers get nailed with speeding tickets more than anything else. hard to defend. Cops generally go for the low hanging fruit IME.

Flimflam 05-26-09 09:10 PM

I hit a woman, well more like her backpack, last night. Going south on Bay coming up to Elm, light had just gone green for us, I was in the curb lane with two full lanes of traffic (around 9pm) and I gun it, she appears around the corner of the lead minivan and I try and slow down, she pauses/stops briefly causing my right bar to hit her bag. She didn't go down and so I carried on after barely managing to hold onto the bike myself.

Feel bad about it, but at the same time she was the one who messed up, only I guess I should've been more cautious, and couldn't see her due to the higher vehicles in the front. Bah.

Didn't see any cops other than outside the Embassy/Court on University, tomorrow I doubt I will going up north.

MattRennick 05-26-09 09:39 PM


Originally Posted by smp22 (Post 8989150)
with cops it's all got to be "yes sir" and "thank you sir" and zero attitude or sarcasm. The time to plead your case is in court, not usually at the side of the road.

totally - i had a cop plead my case to a prosecutor on a red light ticket a while ago based on the fact that he remembered that i didn't give him a hard time and was polite... paid a nominal fee instead of $180 when i definitely ran the red in the first place so i fully back minding your Ps and Qs when it comes to dealing with the fuzzzzzz (not Andre); as long as they aren't being total dicks, themselves, of course.

with that said, i laughed out loud and booked as one tried to wave me over the other day.

jet sanchEz 05-26-09 10:34 PM


Originally Posted by Ill Mitch (Post 8988564)
You didn't hear it from me, but, there are some undercover cops riding these bikes this summer. ;)

Seriously? Undercover to bust cyclists with stupid infractions like not having a bell? Or are they going after drug dealers or something?

kergin 05-27-09 06:41 AM

Pretty cool: thestar.ca has a video covering the opening of bicycle station in Union Station. Apparently, VPark, Dufferin, Islington, and Kipling? will also get like stations. On Monday I was wandering the PATH on my lunch when I saw a booth near the Kitchen Table in First Canadian Place - they were selling folding and Biomega shaft-driven bikes.


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