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Need a lawyer! Or am I wrong?

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Need a lawyer! Or am I wrong?

Old 03-29-15, 12:35 PM
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Need a lawyer! Or am I wrong?

Felt like a nice no traffic ride today.

So I headed to my favorite cycling spot here in Philly. The Drive. It has a west and a east side, with a river in between, BEAUTIFUL!

I coast down Midville ,I head over the Falls bridge, see that the gates to the west side are closed and think GREAT! I can ride in the street, no tree stumps and bad concrete today! Just smooth asphalt! I'm in bliss for a whole half a mile.

Then I see the police lights flashing and then the orange cones all the way accross the roadway, and then the people, ALL OF THE PEOPLE! There is a Walk/Run event going on! Damn! Don't get me wrong I support all of the causes and events, but MY RIDE! OK, i'm back to the path, or should I say the Roubex, cobbles, what have you, get the Idea? Its bad! Ok i'll just take it easy, enjoy the view, dodge the CREVASSES and tree stumps, and just take in the ride.

NO! Not happening! They have Bands! and water stations, and medics all set up on the path! Mud and soft dirt on both sides of it! every 300 or so yards for 4 miles! And the participants, the 50' wide road wasn't enough, they are on the path also! With dogs with long leashes, toddlers, stadium chairs, sign holders AUGGGG.

I get past the Art Museum and think GREAT, Now i'm on the East side, I can deal with the joggers and dog walkers and clueless recreational bikers. and get in 4 miles of moderate paced riding.

NO! After one mile of swerving and practicing my bike handling skills, now there is a rowing event! People everywhere! thousands! School Kids handling 20' and bigger scull's, walking with oars so long it takes 2 people to carry them! All of this on a 6' wide path! My head almost got taken off twice! I endure all of this for two laps!

Now this is where I need some advice. On my third lap. I cross over Falls bridge, going at a nice pace, open my pedal up because I know I have a little open road before the Run/walk people. I come around the curve and there are no cones, no police blocking the road, a few trucks loading up barriers. AND NICE WIDE OPEN ROAD! I think I screamed YAY out loud, because some of the sanitation guy's looked at me. And I went to my regular pace, since now I am all warmed up!

2 miles in, I pass a police car, he is sitting still, i'm only doing maybe 20, 22mph, he is on the right so I pass him on the left. Mind you the drive is closed. Gates at both ends, the drive has 4 lanes for traffic, with a double yellow line down the center. I pedal maybe another half mile and I come up on one of those big box trucks, I guess he has just finished loading up barriers and he is just starting to pull off. I swing to the left, thinking I will just go around him and once passed I would go back to the right. No I hear him floor it! So now i'm on the side of this box truck, doing still about 20,22mph over the yellow lines, and I'm thinking, if he turns left to get to the other side of the road I'm dead! So I did what I thought was right, I went to a sprint!

I passed the truck, pulled way in front of him, and went back to the right! I heard the truck driver say DAMN! Then laugh! Then I heard the police horn.

The Police woman pulled me over, The truck driver pulled over and he and a few of his men got out, SHE LAID ME OUT! I felt like I was 5 years old! Then the truck driver threw fuel on the fire. I was going about 30, and he passed me, so he had to be going faster than the speed limit! I kind of smiled when he said that. Then I looked at the policewoman, DAMN! She looked at me real hard, walked to her car and came back writing! I was cited for being reckless, crossing over the yellow double lines, exceeding the posted 25mph speed limit, and something about not excceeding 10 mph on a designated bike path.

Now, the road was closed. The 10mph bike path signs that are usually out during the spring and summer, when the road is closed were not out. And I only crossed the lines to go around the truck! He sped up! He also exceeded the speed limit! He didn't get a ticket!

I am going to fight this! Do I have any recourse? I thought that the speed limit on the west side was 35mph, not 25. I checked STRAVA and I was only doing 30.4mph. Should I bring that up? I am going to get a lawyer. The roadway was closed!
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Old 03-29-15, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Hbrown
... open my pedal up ...
I only got that far in the story.

So how does it end? Did you see a guy dressed like Lance or something?

Last edited by velociraptor; 03-29-15 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 03-29-15, 12:57 PM
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IMHO you deserved the ticket.

You admit that you were upset about your riding route being interfered with by the special events taking place.

You were riding illegally, in an unsafe aggressive manner.

Bikes must observe all motor vehicle laws and you admit that you were breaking laws. Even it the road was closed to normal traffic, you had an obligation to follow the traffic laws.

Last edited by RoadGuy; 03-29-15 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 03-29-15, 01:42 PM
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I wouldn't pay a lawyer $5000 to fight a $100 ticket.

On the other hand, there is no reason you can't challenge the ticket in court. Unfortunately there is a horrible bias towards the police and against the defendants.

As you said, you moved over to pass a parked vehicle. No problem with that.
The parked vehicle started moving. That happens. In fact, the truck driver is probably at fault by pulling out without yielding to traffic (you).
I probably would have dropped back behind the truck, but you felt it was safe to continue passing.
I'll pass stopped buses once in a while, but I'm careful to watch what they're doing.

You could argue that the law doesn't preclude crossing the yellow line to pass a parked vehicle (or to save yourself from getting run over by a truck). And, crossing the line is only important if there is oncoming traffic. With the road closed to traffic, you weren't riding in an unsafe manner.

I'm not sure where the 10MPH comes in if you were on the road and not a bike path.
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Old 03-29-15, 02:24 PM
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good luck. Sounds like you technically broke the law It's funny how many cyclists cry about enforcing laws and regulations to protect cyclists and same people seem to have no problems blowing through red lights, stop signs or in this case crossing solid yellow lines and speeding. In your case I don't think you acted ridiculousness but not worth paying a lawyer. Go to court, do some research on laws, represent yourself, be apologetic and hope the cop doest show up. Assuming you have no record, I'm sure the judge will at least cut the fine in half. Now you have to decide if the time to fight it and possibly taking time off work is worth it
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Old 03-29-15, 02:48 PM
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The validity of the ticket sounds at least questionable. I wouldn't emphasize the part about the road being closed since that would also mean that you shouldn't really have been on it (presumably the truck driver had authorization to be there in conjunction with the event). If the truck was far to the right when you started your pass you should have had the reasonable expectation of being able to pass it without needing to cross the double yellow (and I'd note that motor vehicles do this routinely when passing cyclists). Under most state laws (check yours and have a vehicle code section quote) a vehicle being passed (the truck in this case) has an obligation to facilitate the pass by not increasing speed or moving to the left. So I'd argue that your crossing of the double yellow and slightly exceeding the speed limit were defensive responses to avoid a collision when the truck driver acted illegally in speeding up while being passed.
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Old 03-29-15, 02:54 PM
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I'm not familiar with the area and I couldn't figure this out just from your description, can you point at the spot on Google Maps where you crossed the double yellow? Is it West River Dr. / MLK Jr. Dr. going south?

It's just a traffic court, you don't need a lawyer if you can make a coherent speech to the judge.

I took a look in street view and I see a "speed limit: 35" sign going south about 1000' past the Roosevelt Expressway bridge. In any event, the cop would have trouble proving that you were speeding if she did not measure you with a radar. I'd ride through that area again and make note of any speed limit signs, and mention them to the judge.

I don't see what the 10 mph bike path restriction has to do with anything, since it sounds like you were not in a bike path.

"Reckless" part depends on what the cop meant by it, you can try to argue that you weren't being reckless.

"Crossing the double yellow" would be hardest to beat. There may or may not be an exception for crossing a double yellow under these circumstances. (I took a look at the PA vehicle code and I don't see one.) This is the only place where a lawyer could help, but it would not be worth to hire a lawyer just for this, since you'd probably pay more to the lawyer than the fine you're contesting.
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Old 03-29-15, 03:17 PM
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Good luck finding a lawyer. Probably best to go to traffic court and explain very calmly (with apologies and contrition) your side of the story.

Or pay the fine. And watch your auto insurance go up for the moving violations.
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Old 03-29-15, 03:32 PM
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Sounds like you got caught speeding. Suck it up, buttercup.
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Old 03-29-15, 03:32 PM
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Go to court and talk to the judge. Unless s/he is a jerk you can keep this off your record but as always, YMMV.

If it was a speeding ticket you would be in possession of the Holy Grail, just say'n.
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Old 03-29-15, 03:33 PM
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Upon re-reading it is a speeding ticket. Frame that bad baby.
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Old 03-29-15, 03:59 PM
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This thread (the original post) has everything going for it.
I have only one question for the OP: why didn't you wave?
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Old 03-29-15, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by datlas
Or pay the fine. And watch your auto insurance go up for the moving violations.
Don't know what the rules are in PA, but in CA violations committed while cycling are not *supposed* to count for auto insurance purposes. But it's best to check with the court clerk that a given violation is properly recorded as having been on a bicycle since otherwise it might end up being reported to your insurance company.
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Old 03-29-15, 06:33 PM
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There is usually an allowance to pass over a double yellow line to pass an obstruction as long as the other lane is clear. If you can argue that the truck was parked and blocking you, then while you were in the act of passing it started moving, you might have a case with a reasonable traffic judge.

If you have some supporting evidence like photos showing that it would be necessary to cross the double line when a truck is obstructing the lane, then that could help. You'll probably need photos of a higher speed limit sign to beat the speeding rap.

I'm no lawyer, just my opinion from what I've seen in traffic court where I live.
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Old 03-29-15, 06:38 PM
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I was waiting for the part where you dialed it up to 400 watts and droped the hamer. Or are we just to assume this happens in all these posts, and you don't really need to say it?
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Old 03-29-15, 06:44 PM
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You don't need a lawyer - hire an editor.
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Old 03-29-15, 07:09 PM
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Thanks for all of the reply's. I think I will just pay the fine. Thanks again
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Old 03-29-15, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Walter
Upon re-reading it is a speeding ticket. Frame that bad baby.
Part of me in a way wouldn't mind getting a ticket on my bike. Sure my insurance would go up, but hey! It makes for an interesting bar story.
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Old 03-29-15, 08:32 PM
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You should have just slowed down and let the truck go. You're lucky you got a ticket and didn't get hit by the truck.
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Old 03-29-15, 09:13 PM
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There's something seriously wrong with this country- with all the crime in Philly, and everywhere else, the fuzz have nothing better to do than to harass a cyclist who is doing no harm to anyone, merely because he is not a threat and an easy victim whom she assumes will just roll over and pay his ticket?

How many drug deals and raypes went down within a mile of that locale? But the dewsh has to give a ticket to a bicyclist... Hitler would be proud of her.

Would be an easy ticket to fight if you know what you're doing- or cinch for a lawyer. How did she know how fast you were going? Did she clock you with radar? Did she bring the truck driver to court for you to cross-examine? Did she get a written affadavit from him? Look up the specific codes for the use of the bike path: Does it specifically prohibit you from EVER crossing the yellow line (Probably not), etc. Than k Miss Piggy for wasting the taxpayers money! I'm sure the world is a much safer place now!

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Old 03-29-15, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Walter
Go to court and talk to the judge. Unless s/he is a jerk you can keep this off your record but as always, YMMV.

If it was a speeding ticket you would be in possession of the Holy Grail, just say'n.
+ infinity!!


FWIW, I'm not a fan of traffic cops. Ever see a traffic cop pulling over a Harley for the EXTREMELY excessive noise laws they break? (nope)
It's pick & choose. They pick. They choose. In the meantime, crime (real crime) does what it does.

Anyway.........just take some deep breaths, try not to let it get to you.....DEFINITELY frame that ticket if it is a speeding ticket (I would...and I'm DEAD serious!) but in the meantime write down your thoughts on paper now and every day til your case and TALK TO THE JUDGE!!!!!!! You will be surprised what a good conversation with the judge will do.
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Old 03-29-15, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Hbrown
........... I was cited for being reckless, crossing over the yellow double lines, exceeding the posted 25mph speed limit, and something about not excceeding 10 mph on a designated bike path......
From your own post.... IMHO you're likely guilty. If you go to court without a lawyer the judge might have leeway in your fine/punishment. But in my experience you'll be found guilty on every charge. And you'll pay court costs on top of the fines.

But if you hire a lawyer he/she might get the charges dropped to something simple (like speeding). Then all you have to do is pay the one fine.
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Old 03-30-15, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Hbrown
Thanks for all of the reply's. I think I will just pay the fine. Thanks again
I would have a little fun with it. Go to court with humility. I would admit to crossing the double yellow lines. I would say it in a way to present a defense for my safety. You recognize that as a cyclist, you are subject to the rules of the road. However, the truck entered your lane of travel forcing the defensive manuver. As for a speeding you were not paced and you were not clocked.
I bet that they hit you with the crossing of the lines and let the rest go. It backs the police and is reasonable for the public. However, if you present your case with humility and respect you may beat it. It could be fun.
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Old 03-30-15, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by milkbaby
There is usually an allowance to pass over a double yellow line to pass an obstruction as long as the other lane is clear. If you can argue that the truck was parked and blocking you, then while you were in the act of passing it started moving, you might have a case with a reasonable traffic judge.
Only some states allow crossing a yellow line to pass a slow-moving vehicle. I know CA does not (advocates are trying to get it added), but MS does. Not sure about PA.

Originally Posted by loimpact
FWIW, I'm not a fan of traffic cops. Ever see a traffic cop pulling over a Harley for the EXTREMELY excessive noise laws they break? (nope)
It's pick & choose. They pick. They choose. In the meantime, crime (real crime) does what it does.
Motorcycles are allowed to be loud to draw attention to them and make it less likely for motorists to hit them.
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Old 03-30-15, 10:05 AM
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I'd fight it just on principle alone. The absurdity! The expense of having an armed goon intervene in a situation of no consequence; the costs of having her waste more time in court; the judge's time; etc. And this goes on thousands of times a day, because that's what 95% of law-enforcement is about- generating revenue and padding budgets, so they get more funding next year to "protect" us.[From "dangerous criminals", like youi, OP ]

There's a good chance that Miss Piggy won't even show up for this case,(unless she just happens to be there for something else), in which case, you can have the charges dismissed. But know what you aqre doing- or have a decent lawyer. I'd rather pay a few hunnert bucks to a lawyer, than to law-enforcement industry.

Look up ALL the pertinent statutes and codes which are applicable to where you were riding and to bicyclesw specifically. A lawyer is good, because you could be as innocent as Winnie The Pooh, but if you don't know the technicalities, or how to exert your rights, they [judges, etc.] will walk all over you.

Screw humility! In these courts of injustice, only those who know and FIGHT for their rights, win.
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