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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

How much mashing?

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Old 04-27-15 | 05:46 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by lkngro
I get the point that the loads and forces experienced in cycling doesn't get you "real" strength and no "Resistance Training 101" book will tell you to do 1000 reps of anything, but if you do 1000 reps of 5 pounds vs 1000 reps of 10 pounds, you will gain more strength in the second case. You won't get rippling, massive quads and squat 600 pounds, but if you intentionally train by doing hill repeats on your highest gear, you will be stronger than if you did them at a lower gear. That's the point I was trying to make with resistance training. I think we disagree on the magnitude of the strength developed, but fundamentally, I think we agree. More beneficial than "strength" training for cycling is threshold training and anaerobic training. THAT impacts your ability to output more power for longer periods of time significantly. Runners have known that forever.
Nope, you still don't get it. If you do 1000 reps with either weight, you will not get stronger. You throw out words like threshold and anaerobic training, but you clearly don't understand what they mean, and you don't actually do any real training. If you think that you are getting stronger, and by stronger I mean faster, by using your biggest gear to mash on hill repeats, then you are always going to be slow. The thing that matters in cycling training is POWER, which is a combination of cadence and gearing. If it takes you longer to do hill repeats using a 53x11 because you can only pedal 50rpm compared to 90 rpm with 39x13 then you aren't training as hard. Take your meathead mindset out of here, it has no application to actual cycling training.
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Old 04-27-15 | 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by redlude97
Nope, you still don't get it. If you do 1000 reps with either weight, you will not get stronger. You throw out words like threshold and anaerobic training, but you clearly don't understand what they mean, and you don't actually do any real training. If you think that you are getting stronger, and by stronger I mean faster, by using your biggest gear to mash on hill repeats, then you are always going to be slow. The thing that matters in cycling training is POWER, which is a combination of cadence and gearing. If it takes you longer to do hill repeats using a 53x11 because you can only pedal 50rpm compared to 90 rpm with 39x13 then you aren't training as hard. Take your meathead mindset out of here, it has no application to actual cycling training.
Okay, this is where we went wrong. I meant strong/strength in the sense that you are able to push on something harder, not in the sense that strength=speed. I meant muscular strength. (Though the amount of strength gained is VERY small.) Muscular strength does not translate to overall speed in cycling, like you said. For me, intentionally using higher gears, over time, has made me able to use those same high gears at a higher cadence. It works for me, so I'm speaking from my own experience. Maybe it doesn't work for you, since we are different people. And again from my own experience, doing threshold training (high, but not too high, power output for an extended period of time (~30 mins)) and anaerobic training (very high power output for shorter periods of time, thus going into lactic acid fermentation, i.e. anaerobic) has helped me develop speed significantly more so. Those are the definitions I had for those exercises, and it doesn't seem like you had the same definition as me, for which I apologize.

In any case, what I'm doing works for me and what you're doing works for you. I'd call that a win-win.

Last edited by lkngro; 04-27-15 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 04-27-15 | 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by lkngro
Okay, this is where we went wrong. I meant strong/strength in the sense that you are able to push on something harder, not in the sense that strength=speed. I meant muscular strength. (Though the amount of strength gained is VERY small.) Muscular strength does not translate to overall speed in cycling, like you said. For me, intentionally using higher gears, over time, has made me able to use those same high gears at a higher cadence. It works for me, so I'm speaking from my own experience. Maybe it doesn't work for you, since we are different people. And again from my own experience, doing threshold training (high, but not too high, power output for an extended period of time (~30 mins)) and anaerobic training (very high power output for shorter periods of time, thus going into lactic acid fermentation, i.e. anaerobic) has helped me develop speed significantly more so. Those are the definitions I had for those exercises, and it doesn't seem like you had the same definition as me, for which I apologize.
You are still coming to the wrong conclusions about your training. You are "stronger" only because you worked harder than if you were in a lower gear because you were simply trying harder with the bigger gear. This is clear because you don't understand that real racers put out high POWER at high cadences. What, you think that you can't train anaerobic power at 120rpm? Just because you do it at 60rpm doesn't mean its efficient or going to make you stronger. Again, stop trying to apply resistance training principals to cycling training, its a path that only leads to slow progress and mediocrity.
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Old 04-27-15 | 06:38 PM
  #54  
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So many experienced cyclists in this thread yet such little understanding of cycling. Top level cyclists with the body and muscular composition of a ramen noodle can hold wattage you and I can only dream of, yet we're here arguing that being muscular/manly and mashing on the pedals generates more power. Lol just lol.

Ladies and Gents...

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Old 04-27-15 | 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by redlude97
You are still coming to the wrong conclusions about your training. You are "stronger" only because you worked harder than if you were in a lower gear because you were simply trying harder with the bigger gear. This is clear because you don't understand that real racers put out high POWER at high cadences. What, you think that you can't train anaerobic power at 120rpm? Just because you do it at 60rpm doesn't mean its efficient or going to make you stronger. Again, stop trying to apply resistance training principals to cycling training, its a path that only leads to slow progress and mediocrity.
I'm not saying that I always run high gears when doing workouts, just sometimes when I'm focusing on it. I do threshold training around the 115rpm mark usually. I'm saying that you can examine both parts of the gearing/cadence equation and work on each separately to improve overall power. Both have their place in my training and I've gotten faster over time and stayed healthy, so I can't argue with that.
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Old 04-27-15 | 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by lkngro
I'm saying that you can examine both parts of the gearing/cadence equation and work on each separately to improve overall power. Both have their place in my training and I've gotten faster over time and stayed healthy, so I can't argue with that.
No,what you said was this.
Originally Posted by lkngro
For training purposes, intentionally higher gears where you're putting in more effort at a slower cadence will make you stronger. Easier gears at a faster cadence will increase your endurance.
This is simply FALSE.
I'll give you an example. Lets say you are doing hill repeats on a 10% hill. To hold 15mph you need to put out roughly 650 watts for the average rider. For a 53x11 you are going to be doing about 40rpm, your "strength" training. You can get up the hill at the same pace using a 39x19@90rpm. Guess what, in both cases you are putting out the same POWER. Now if you were using say a 39x15@90rpm, you are actually going FASTER up the hill, almost 18mph, and putting out more POWER, over 800W! You are going to get STRONGER and FASTER using the "Easier gears at a faster cadence" tha you claim is for endurance. The thing that matters when it comes to training is POWER, thats it. If you want to address the strength aspect, you should be doing resistance training in a gym. Any respected coach would tell you the same. There's also plenty of books out there for you to school yourself
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Old 04-27-15 | 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by redlude97

The thing that matters when it comes to training is POWER, thats it.
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Old 04-27-15 | 08:17 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass
Studies show if you have powerful legs and are more of the manly type you tend to push a higher gear. If you're a soft modern day type of guy and weaker in the legs you're more of a spinner.
Hmm. No bites yet?
What I'm wondering is whether it was it because you were too manly and forceful, or too subtle and weak in your trolling technique.
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Old 04-27-15 | 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarch
Hmm. No bites yet?
What I'm wondering is whether it was it because you were too manly and forceful, or too subtle and weak in your trolling technique.
Sounds right to me. Spinners have toothpicks for legs.
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Old 04-27-15 | 08:52 PM
  #60  
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Now I want some of that POWER.
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Old 04-27-15 | 10:27 PM
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This thread has run its course.
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