Tubeless tubulars? And tubeless clincher vs. tubular?
 

I run tubeless and really like it compared to traditional tubed clinchers. I like the improved ride quality and flat protection . . . the sealant really does its job. My understanding of tubulars is that they're basically an inner tube with a tire sewn around it. I've also heard that running sealant in tubulars isn't quite as good of a flat protection solution as tubeless.

At some point I'd like to get some carbon wheels, but I've got a limited budget. All of the name brand carbon wheels that I've found that are tubeless compatible are outside of my budget. I'm not particularly comfortable with the idea of running tubeless on Chinese carbon wheels . . . but the general consensus seems to be that running tubulars on Chinese tubular carbon wheels is perfectly safe.

After reading @rpenmanparker's "I was wrong. That tubular tire bridge is not too far!" thread and seeing mention of "tubeless tubulars," my interest is piqued.

So . . .

1. Does anyone run both a tubular wheel set & tubeless clincher wheel set who could speak to the ride quality and flat protection of each?
2. What's a tubeless tubular?
3. Can you run tubeless sealant in a tubeless tubular?
4. What brands offer tubeless tubulars?
5. Can I run a tubeless tubular, get the ride quality of tubular, flat protection of tubeless clincher, and relative safety of running a tubular setup on some Chinese carbon wheels?

dude

Tu-be or not tu-be.

Most sewups are a tube inside of a tire. Tufo are an exception, more or less. The inner layer is vulcanized to the inside of the tire. They sell a sealant designed for their tires. I have a front FSA carbon that I'll be selling soon. Not trying to make a pitch. Just wanted to say that you may be able to pick FSA's up for a good price & they can be pretty decent. This one was, anyway.

You could always try ghetto tubeless and hope for the best.
Tech Tuesday: Gorilla Tape Tubeless Conversion - Pinkbike

or try the Stans conversion kit.
Road Tubeless

You're comfotable using pressurized tires (tubed clinchers) on a chinese rim but not comfortable using pressurized tires (tubeless clincher) on one. I don't get it

I know you may not have intended it that way, but the term "ghetto tubular" is inherently a racial or ethnic slur. It associates a cheap, low quality way of doing something with the inhabitants of ghettos. Surely we have a better way of describing a lower cost approach than by denigrating ghetto dwellers in the process. Many people don't see it that way, but the folks being put down surely do.

I think the term is "ghetto tubeless".

just sayin

Right you are.

No, he said he's confortable using Chinese tubulars.

Clinchers have to hold the pressure of the tire & tube. Some feel that unbranded rims may not be built well enough in that critical area, especially after heavy braking.
Tubular rims are "safer" because they do not have the added function of the sidewall lip retaining the tire and tube.

No. I'm somewhat comfortable using tubed clinchers on Chinese carbon rims; I am not comfortable using tubeless clinchers on Chinese carbon rims. There seems to be consensus, however, that using tubulars on Chinese carbon rims is the safest bet, if you're going to use Chinese rims.

To put it simply, tubeless tires exert more force outward (perpendicular to the plane of the wheel) than traditional clinchers do, plus the rim/tire bead interface has to be specific for tubeless. I don't trust that Chinese manufacturers have invested the research to ensure their rims can handle the higher forces exerted by tubeless. Hopefully this addresses your question.

So am I to understand that Tufo is the only manufacturer of tubeless tubulars?

That's a good bet.

I really don't get the folks who want to skimp $$$$ on wheels...or stems, or bars, or frames, etc.. F!*ckin' hurts when you hit the ground.

There's no such thing as a tubeless tubular. Tubular tires basically have a tube or tube-equivalent built-in.
I think the product you're confused by is the "tubular clincher". This is basically a tubular tire with an integrated bead for mounting on clincher rims, rather than gluing to a tubular rim. Supposedly offers similar benefits to a tubular, with the drawback that you can't install an inner-tube in the event of an flat (carry a spare tire).

Sealant works similarly in tubeless setup or in a tubular tires. The key difference with respect to conventional clinchers is that in both cases, the liner is fixed with respect to the tire, allowing the sealant to form a good plug. The main drawback to sealant in a tubular tire is that it's impossible to remove dried sealant. If you go through tires once a year, it's not a big deal. If your tires last several seasons, then the build up of dried sealant may be an issue.

there's a lot you don't get.

...and I still get a lot more than you.

This thread hurts.

If by 'tube-equivalent' you mean something that cannot be accessed, patched, or replaced, then I guess that is accurate.

Clement is selling tubeless tubulars, but they are made by Tufo at this point, so yes Tufo is the only manufacturer AFAIK.

Some say that Tufos are not as supple as traditional tubulars. I have a pair of Tufo CX tires, but have not mounted them yet.

as mentioned, most Tufo's don't have tubes. so they probably feel 'dissed' when described as 'tubeless'. :lol:

should probably ban the word.

I don't know if they are the "only". I do know that they have their benefits & drawbacks. Certainly can't fint the puncture, unsew & repair the tube. I don't know a lot of people who do that these days, anyhow... I have gotten a lot more life out of them than other tubulars, though. They have some great grip on some of the street tires but they have been known to not be as supple. All depends on what you want from a tire.

Yeah, that's all well and good but it's called "ghetto tubeless", I can't do anything about it and I didn't coin the name. Google it, it's what it's called, and when you say it, everyone knows you're talking about using gorilla tape instead of a tubeless conversion tape.

MTB Techniques - The Mountain Bike Skills and Technique Resource
Tech Tuesday: Gorilla Tape Tubeless Conversion - Pinkbike
Ghetto tubeless conversion DIY: tips and tricks | Ridemonkey.com
Gorilla tape ghetto tubeless works great.- Mtbr.com
Tech How-To: Ghetto Tubeless for Mountain Bikes | Singletracks Mountain Bike News

So if you have an issue with the term, you need to take on the entire mtb community and tell them to coin a new term.

Edit to add: Not only that, it's a damn fine way to convert your wheels to tubeless. It's how my mountain bike is setup right now. It's almost as if the word "ghetto" is a good thing here.

I take personal offense at using the word "gorilla" to describe tape.

Yeah, you guys need to talk a different way because some people, somewhere, (we don't know who they are but they certainly must exist) might get hurt feelings because they are weak and too stupid to figure out you aren't trying to insult their situation.

You should feel ashamed of yourselves. Just ashamed.

Do you have a source for this claim or a link for further reading? I suspect it is not true. I am not sure, but I suspect.