dalava

50% fitters are scammers, 40% know about as much as the members on this forum, and 10% may be able to help.

Stucky

Bravo!

Fit is a very personal thing. Just because a book says it's anatomically-correct, or because other people of the same size like it, doesn't mean you will.

And I don't care if one spends all day with a fitter. You have to live with changes for a while; your body has to adapt. Fitting is a process- and our fit evolves. It is not something that ocurrs in an hour or two on a trainer. And people are so diverse. Some people, like myself, are not very sensitive to fit. As long as I'm not too stretched-out, I'm generally comfortable. Other people....a few millimeters may drive them crazy.

Making adjustments as needed; living with them; trying different things; riding and letting your body get acclimated....all trump even the best of professional fittings.

OP needs a bigger bike...and more miles. Paying two or three hunnert bucks to a fitter isn't going to change that.

bigcicero

Okay all, sorry for the delay. Was super busy with work. I snapped a few pics last night on the drops and hoods in a position that I would ride in. Please go easy I went on a ride to try to observe how I was feeling and came up with a few observations.... I'm not necessarily saying the bike is too small, but there must be something I can adjust...

- I'd like to flatten my back and stretch my arms out more. I can rotate my pelvis further to elongate my back, but if I rotate any more than shown in the photo I feel like my, ahem, business is getting crushed into the saddle
- Looking down, I see the hub ~ 2 inches in front of the handlebar. I'm on a 120mm stem. (Doesn't that indicate top tube is too short?)
- Stem is almost slammed (1 5mm spacer under it), but I find lower handlebars easier on my upper back. I bought the bike with handlebars in highest position and had upper back & neck soreness; after lowering the handlebars, I found the ride to be more aero AND soreness basically went away
- Fine to breathe in the drops, but losing 10 lbs would feel a bit better; I spend most of my time in the drops
- I'm seated all the way back on the saddle; not uncomfortable (but saddle is stiff)
- Legs are comfortable, no pain
- On a side note that I only skirted around, I feel like I fatigue faster than I should; I don't fatigue as quickly on my hybrid while I'm pushing hard, and my cardio level is decent - Regarding stiffness of the Alu, I actually don't find the ride to be overly 'harsh' so that's prob not the source of my fatigue.
Thank you!

Stucky

Your bike is too small. </story>

FLvector

With such a significant bend in the elbows to place you in a comfortable riding position, your arms will get tired over time during longer rides. It doesn't look like you have room to comfortably ride on the hoods or the tops without putting yourself in a very upright position again without an almost 90 degree bend in the elbows. Going to a longer stem isn't going to do much for you. I agree with the others, this frame is too small. You should be able to go up at least once size, maybe two. Better if you can correct this sooner than later. Consult with a good fitter prior to your next purchase so you end up with a geometry that works for you.

bigcicero

Yes, that's exactly how I feel. Can you believe that the LBS guy let me ride out of the store with the stock configuration, which was a 90mm stem (I currently have 120mm) and the stem at highest point? I mean, I was basically riding almost straight up. I guess the guy didn't know better: as a newbie I was nervous about the 'aggressive' geometry and so he wanted to give me an 'easier' setup. I think he was wrong. Just b/c someone is new doesn't mean they need to be pampered and pitied with a sub-optimal setup. What warped me when I bought the bike was that I was intimidated by the seemingly highly scientific fitting process, so I went against my gut. All the talk about geometry is very intimidating to a new cyclist.

So, that said, I'm not sure what to do now.... Now more experienced, I know that: I don't race, but I just want something comfortable for long rides AND fairly responsive (I like the razor-like feel of the CAAD), fast, and something a bit aero, and definitely carbon. But comfortable.

Opinions?

FLvector

Many people, including myself, make a mistake in the purchase of their first road bike. I bought a used CAAD 8, one size too small and struggled with fit for a few years. I bought it off of Craigslist and I'm sure the guy just wanted to sell it without concern it was a good fit for me. I got a longer stem which helped and I continued to ride it and enjoy it.

The next bike I purchased was from a shop that had a very good fitter. I later learned that this fitter has very good reputation in my region, several of my current friends have used him. I also went to several bike shops, at least 5-6, not only to look at their inventory, but to ask their opinion on what size frame I should be riding. Most shops will take several measurements to get you close, but the geometry of different manufacturers does differ. For example, you might be on a 58 cm on a Giant, while on a 56 cm on a Cannondale due to the different geometry. Don't let a shop push a bike on you just because they have it in stock. Once you hear from 4-6 shops on what size you should be on, you'll get more confident you're going in the right direction.

You've had this bike since 2013, but it doesn't sound like it has high mileage. I'd suggest you put it up on Craigslist and sell local, or Ebay if you don't mind shipping. If the price is right, you shouldn't have much trouble selling it. Once you get on a bike the fits you better, I'd suspect you'll feel much more comfortable which will increase your desire to ride more often and for longer distances. Good luck in whatever you do.

Stucky

You can get a miilion different opinions; you can test ride a zillion different bikes; you can get the opinions of 18 pro fitters....but what it comes down to, is trial and error. Living with a bike for a while, and letting your body get acclimated to it, and finding what really "clicks" with you, is like finding food or music that you really love.

IMO, the best thing to do, is to look around for some good deals on good used bikes- whether on Ebay or CL, etc. If you can get decent deals, so that you can ride a bike for 6 months or so, and re-sell it without losing money, you can try a lot of different bikes, and different sizes, and live with them long enough to see which ones you really like and which ones are boring/uncomfortable/etc.

Try bikes in the 56-58cm range.

Mere test rides won't do it, as youi can ride anything for 10 or 20 miles once, and think it is O-K. You have to live with a bike for a while. A bike could feel GREAT on a test ride; and a month or two later, it could feel just mediocre, or even like crap. A bike could just seem O-K on a trst ride...and grow on you after a while (Like my Klein: When I first got it, I thought it was O-K., but as time went on, I grew to feel that it was the SWEEEETest bike ever! My Venge felt pretty sweet on the test ride; but after living with it for a few months...meh.... )

bigcicero

^ This... I'm really positive I'll ride more when I'm more comfortable. Thanks for the advice and the background. I'm glad I'm not the only one that has this experience with their first bike; in fact, I bet it happens to a lot of people.

bigcicero

This really resonates with me and makes a lot of sense. In particular, I live in NYC (well, on the Jersey side), and it's hard to get a good test ride when most of the LBSs local to me are in the city (Manhattan) and test rides are short-ish and choppy.

I think what I'm going to do is post another thread looking for reccs on good bike shops here, go visit a few and do a few test rides to the extent that I'm able in the city, and then pursue the Craigslist approach. I like the idea of being able to try a few different bikes without feeling like I'm throwing away $ after $ on them.

Thanks much!

bigcicero

One last question: Does anyone think that I can negotiate on the price of a new bike if I return back to the LBS where I bought my bike initially? i.e., if I tell them that I'm re-buying b/c I'm irritated with the fit that they helped me select, will they work with me?

For anyone in the NYC area, I bought my bike at Sid's on W. 19th St.

Thank you!

hokie cycler

Why did you lower your stem? Raise it and flip it and that should help a little. I agree the frame is too small but flipping and lowering your stem made the situation worse. Being more aero makes no sense if you take a bad fit and make it worse.

RoadGuy

Still need to see photos with you on the bike with the pedals at 9 and 3, and also at 12 and 6 on the photo side. Need to see if your upper legs reach horizontal, or horizontal plus. Looks like the seat may be too low.

Frame is definitely too small, but you may be able to move the seat to the rear and raise slightly to improve the problems (In a previous message you said the seat was position in the middle). Look like you could do a little more leg extension. Moving the seat to the rear will also get you a little more room in the cockpit by moving your body to the rear.

bigcicero

Good question. One reason was that, yes, I was tired of using my chest as a parachute and wanted a more aero position. However, another compelling reason was that I was feeling some back pain in the higher position. Lowering the stem actually helped because my back was less upright; I found this more comfortable despite altering the fit.

bigcicero

I should have thought of more photos.
I actually do have a hair more extension available and was thinking of this, so I'm going to take your advice and try this. I'll revert with results when I do this. I didn't feel uncomfortable in my legs, but I'll see what it does.

FLvector

I'd say it's worth a shot. Don't deal with the salesman who sold you the bike, discuss this with the shop owner since he/she has the power to negotiate. Remember, this bike is already two years old, so they have no obligation to give you a great deal. Most shops don't take trade ins, or like to sell on consignment. Some will do it.

Heathpack 

I think most people here in the 41 have not experienced the services of a really good fitter.

Two years ago, I was a rank newby on an poorly fit $600 aluminum Trek. I went to an extraordinary fitter for a pre-purchase fit because I was looking for a new bike. He spent 2 hours with me, set up my original Trek & instantly everything was better about my cycling. I rode my first century ride in complete comfort a month later. The fit cost $350 and was supposed to include 2 free follow-ups. He gave me a shopping list of appropriate candidate bikes.

Six weeks later, I returned with my new bike. He set that up, helped me navigate all the wrong things the "serious" LBS I bought the bike from did. I wound up going back a few more times because I couldn't really find bars I liked.

Six months later, I was thoroughly obsessed with cycling and decided to buy a spare bike (God forbid I should miss a day of riding because something happened to the main bike). I find a used Madone at a good price, I pop fitter an email, "Hey Jim, will this bike work for me?"

The answer is yes, I buy the bike and go back to him. He sets it up gratis, won't take any $ because he's not really coming up with a new fit.

Another 6 months go by and I get yet another set of bars, I schedule another appt to see him. He asks how I'm feeling and I mention a tiny bit of knee pain. He can't let that go, I get another 3D motion capture session. Saddle up 1 cm. Again, no charge, dont worry about it he says.

Now 6 more months have gone by and I want to get a TT bike. I set up a pre-purchase TT fit. This time he spends 3 hours with me. Aero is his thing. The fit takes 20 min max, the rest of the time we're talking aero stuff. I get my bike shopping list and just bought the new bike. I know I don't have to spend a fortune because of what I've learned, I get a brand new bike for under $2000. I know where to get the most affordable wheels. Which aero helmet seems to be good for everyone. What I really have to spend $ on and what I don't. Oh yeah and because it's a second fit, all this costs $100. Ridiculous for a fitter of this level, he's the kind of guy who gets flown into the TDF to tweak fits for the TTs.

Sure I could have taken years to muddle through all this stuff on my own and figure it out by trial & error. I am in no way suggesting that everyone needs to take the approach that I've had, there's something to be said for learning enough to be able to tweak your own fit. But for me, a clueless newby, connecting with an excellent fitter was the 100% right thing to do. I've been on the right bikes for me, comfortable and protected from injury, right from the beginning. It has really maximized by ability to progress as a cyclist and feeling really good on the bike instantly after seeing him has contributed greatly to my love of cycling. It was not so much fun before that, when I was on an ill-fitting bike.

Stucky

There ya go! You live in what is probably the best used-bike market in the entire country! [Former NYer here]. I live 1000 miles away now, but I bought my Klein off the Long Island CL.

I wouldn't set foot in the LBS you got your bike from! They ripped you off. You were counting on them as "professionals" to at least put you on a bike which was within the ballpark as far as sizing....but they were just interested in moving dead stock. At this point in time, it's too late for them to do anything for ya, so why deal with the crooks again? I doubt they'd give you any better of a deal that you couldn't negotiate with any other shop- but you'll make out a lot better if you sell your bike privately- and luckily, 54cm is one of the most sought-after sizes, so you should have no problem selling it.