Machka 

Just wondering if any of you have experienced this ... and if you solved it.


I've started doing more climbing recently, and have been having a back pain I've never experienced before.

Mid-ride, my mid-back starts hurting. It starts on the right side almost mid-way between the bottom of my shoulder blade and my waist, just to the right of my spine. Eventually it spreads to be a band across my whole back from the bottom of my shoulder blade to my waist.

This morning, after our climbing ride yesterday, I could hardly move because of this band of pain.

It's sort of like DOMs ... it's sort of like when I sprained my back years ago ...


I'm wondering about ...

-- my position on the bicycle while I climb.
-- my core strength... which could use some work.
-- my flexibility ... or complete and utter lack of it.
-- or whether it is something else ... like the heavy backpack I carry around during the week or my office chair.

FBinNY 

If you're not used to climbing and were always more of a spinner than masher, it's a predictable result of the change.

You have strong legs with good endurance. Unfortunately bicycling, especially spinning does little to strengthen the back. So now that you're climbing and there are stronger reaction forces trying to rock your hips, your back is working harder than it's used to to stabilize them. Unless you want to built a steel brace to carry rigidity from your shoulders to your hips, you're going to have to strengthen your back.

Odds are that if you continue to climb, but with some moderation and pain management, the necessary muscle support will develop naturally. You might get some relief by standing part time on long climbs, and maybe doing some exaggerated flexing between the climbs to relax these muscles. There might even be some side lift exercises that will help strengthen them faster, but I don't know of any offhand.

Keep in mind that these are basically static muscles that do isometrics against the back's twisting forces, so they can be prone to spasm and pain. Take it easy so things don't progress to where you can't ride at all, and give them a chance to catch up.

BTW- when my sciatica flares up from time to time, I've found that getting off and walking 100 yards or so makes a big difference and I can ride again. If I don't stop and walk, it reaches mind numbing pain levels.

Bunyanderman

I have had some similar issues, but mainly in my mid to lower back. I found that if I climbed while holding on to the hoods (praying mantis position,) I would end up pulling up on the hoods to counteract the pedaling down force. This put my back to under go those forces, and fatigued my muscles quickly.

I got mainly used to this over many long and steep climbs, doing back exercises in the gym helped also. To relieve this I would sit more up right, with my hands on the tops of the bar.

fstshrk

I have had similar issues. The only way to fix it is to do yoga type back stretches after coming home. It should go away in a week or two if you keep climbing.

Also, I try to alternate between seated and out of the saddle climbing about every mile or so.

Mumonkan

whenever im doing long climbs or repeated stiff climbs i get similar back pain but nothing that lasts more than a couple mins after the climb. being on the nose of the saddle and wrenching on the hoods for hard efforts uphill for an extended period is pretty much guaranteed to piss something off on your body.

i would advise periodically switching up your hand positions (hoods, tops, bend, flats, rinse, repeat), your position fore/aft on the saddle, and standing/sitting. standing up and arching my back to stretch out while coasting usually helps if its particularly brutal or doesnt go away right after the climb

karenashg

I think yes, yes, yes, and yes to those 4 factors. Any one in isolation probably wouldn't mean you'd experience any problems on the bike, but they're probably reinforcing each other in combination. Some back extension exercises would probably be helpful--stuff like supermans, and so on. I've really liked the exercises in Tom Danielson's Core Advantage book--they focus on building strength and stability in motion, rather than holding a static position.

Our muscles are more efficient in the middle of their range of motion, and less efficient at the extreme ends of our range of motion. When you're curved forward on a bike, the back muscles--especially if you're not very flexible in that area--are stretched out a little. Thus all the work that they do while you're riding is done at a position in which that work is a little more difficult for them to do.

Machka 

Thanks all ...

This back pain is definitely not a momentary, fleeting things. It started acting up back in May when we started doing more climbing rides ... then eased up in June when we were in Canada doing flat rides ... and is back now that we're back in Tasmania and climbing again.

It starts with a pain about the size of a fist and then spreads across my back and is agonising ... and now, two days after the ride in question, it has eased a bit, but it's still there. Like DOMs, and who knows, maybe that's partly it.

I do change hand positions, and stretch, and get off the bicycle and stretch, and these things help for a little while ... but then it comes back.

I don't stand while climbing. I used to be able to stand while climbing, but I've lost that somewhere along the way. I haven't stood on a climb since probably the BMB in 2006. I did try to stand while riding on flat ground when we were in Canada, and couldn't get a rhythm going like I used to be able to do.


Yeah, I figure I need to do a whole lot more core work. I'll have a look for Tom Danielson's Core Advantage book.


I'm also looking into a better option than my current backpack.

Mumonkan

if youre wearing a pack that could have a lot to do with it. when im out shopping riding around for a while my back starts to bother me if theres more than 10 pounds in it. sometimes i get pain that when i stop to stretch out it turns out to be a numb spot, but again it goes away after a little while and its not persistent

Machka 

I don't wear a backpack while I'm cycling ... I don't wear one all weekend long, which is a nice break.

But I do use a backpack while walking during the week. It can be quite heavily loaded with university stuff, and I will walk up to about 4 km with it.

Machka 

One thing I've discovered is that my core is really weak!

30 crunches last weekend, and I could hardly move most of this week. Yikes!

That is something I need to work on.



However, since I started this thread, I went to my chiro and felt better for a while, but it has gotten worse again. I am thinking that chiro + core work might be the key.

Also, one thing my chiro said is that the location of my pain often occurs when leaning forward. So it may not necessarily be triggered by the backpack itself, but by the fact that when I wear the backpack, I'm leaning forward to compensate, especially when walking up the hills between uni and work. I have noticed that straightening up -- almost feeling like I'm leaning back -- helps.

And of course, on a bicycle, I'm leaning forward.

JohnX

Get a roller and lay down on it and roll the part of your back that gets sore. when I first started doing a bootcamp class I froze up from the exercises and thought I had pulled something. the teacher says when you use one of those rollers, it breaks up the "mascia"? and boy did it work. you won't be sorry if you do that fairly regularly.

LGHT

Htfu

mcours2006

Seems to be a common response to many of the queries here on BF. Sure, just harden up. That'll work.

mcours2006

I am inclined to agree with this.

I experience something similar on hard climbs, but the 'discomfort' is only while I am climbing. It dissipates quickly after. I attribute it to the effort exerted, rather than some chronic issue.

OP, you mention you have a weak core. I would start with this. You can google some better core exercises than just crunches.

2manybikes

Do you climb on the hoods a lot ? Try the tops and straighten your back as much as possible while rolling your pelvis forward. Also stretch while on the bike. Stretch the back of your legs while standing if you can coast for a while. Stretch after riding for a few minutes. Stretch once in a while as you go.

Carbonfiberboy 

IMO not tightness as a cause but muscular weakness which causes tightness and soreness. Therefore stretching, while good, is not a cure but rather as you found, a palliative.

I got some PT for a rotator cuff impingement. The PT said my posture wasn't good enough. Think dropping your shoulder blades into your back pockets. On the bike too, straighten your back and drop your shoulder blades. Oddly enough, this did help with the impingement. Exercises too, of course. This shoulder blade advice is all through Core Advantage. I never got it through my head that this was supposed to be a permanent postural thing.

I think something like this might address your weakness in a balanced way . . .
At the gym my Fall upper body and pulling fundamentals day, 3 sets of 12:
Lat pulldowns
Machine rows
Shrugs
Biceps cable curls
Concentration curls

Superset:
Side dumbell raises
Front dumbell raises
Bent over dumbell raises

Seated unsupported dumbell presses
Back machine
Roman chair, legs bent

IMO never do crunches. All back and ab work with the back straight. I believe that's the thinking now.

IME standing takes leg strength and endurance, best developed by repeatedly forcing yourself to stand until your legs give out. Exactly right to practice it on the flat first. Start with a big gear and a low cadence of about 60.

Our 10-day backpacking trip sure increased Stoker's ability to stand. She went in with a 40 lb. pack, came out with 25. We did lots of climbing in the mountains. Ooooh, was that good for us. We went out just killer on the bike after a 1-day rest. You have mountains, must have trails?

Machka 

Trouble is ... it's not just while I'm cycling anymore.

I get it walking up to the shops now, not even much of a climb.


And in answer to a few questions:

I move my hands into different positions when I climb and try to sit up and stretch on long climbs. That helps for a few minutes, but then it is back.

I do scrunch my shoulders up around my ears when I'm cycling, and about every 10 or 15 minutes I have to consciously tell myself to drop them.

I don't stand when I cycle up hills. I used to be able to do that back a decade or so ago, but it has been years since I have done that.

Rowan and I do some hiking, it's been about once every 2-3 weeks through the winter ... these days pain is just as bad when I hike as when I cycle.

The pain does not dissipate anymore ... it is always there. Even sitting here right now, I can feel it just mildly. Interestingly it almost seems connected to my right hip.

The roller thing actually sounds good. I almost feel like if I could just stretch it out or work out the knot once and for all it would be OK.

topflightpro

Here is my theory:

You have weak hip flexors, particularly on your right side.

When climbing, there is a greater tendency to pull up in the pedal stroke than when riding in the flats. Because your hip flexors are weak, they cannot fulfill the duty required to pull up the pedal. As a result, your back muscles are engaging and pulling your whole pelvis and hip up. The back muscles, however, weren't designed for that effort, hence the pain.

Number400

Get thee to PT quickly, trust me!

See a Physiatrist and get an evaluation. You most certainly have muscle imbalances and weaknesses and they are starting to catch up with you. It does not take much to get fixed up but you will need to work on your hips and lower back and abdominal muscles in a careful and structured way.

RPK79

I messed up my back a few months back climbing double digit grades with my single speed. I was standing and pushing down while pulling up on the hoods and *Pop*. I don't recommend doing that. I mean, it's okay to do, but not to the extreme that I pushed it.

LGHT

Probably because it's good advice. I had the same problem followed one of @Carbonfiberboy post on core strength and the problem went away. Now I can climb all day without back pain because my core is now Hard as #$%#%

The key is HTFU seems to intimate the weak and the ones that are in denial about themselves while other embrace the truth and do something about it.

RPK79

I spent the off season last year focusing on core strength. I shouldn't have stopped actually. I'll do the same this year and try to keep it consistent all year long.

mcours2006

Well, in that case it could work in number of situations in my life.

Example:
Son: Dad, a kid pushed me down on the playground today and kicked sand in my face.
Me: Son, HTFU!

Wife: I'm really nervous about the job interview today.
Me: Honey, HTFU!

Make me a very popular man round the house.

ColaJacket

Quit asking us what to do, and go see a doctor. Hopefully, it is nothing too serious, and a good PT can help you with your issues.

GH

RPK79

A chiropractor should be able to fix @Machka right up. Spine is probably a little out of alignment.