baj32161

Well it finally had to happen here in Trenton, NJ. I rode in to work last Wednesday. It was a beautiful day and I was in a great mood. Did my personal best, time-wise (18 min..when I took the bus it took 15). When I got into the office I noticed that I had 2 bent rims due to the lousy roads around here...no real biggie. One of my co-workers drove me over to the LBS at lunch so I could get my wheels trued ($15...I didn't buy the bike at that shop). That wasn't the bad part.

I left work at 6PM to ride home and went my usual route. I stopped for a bottle of Orange Juice and was standing on the sidewalk with my bike (helmet and jersey on...shoes, etc) drinking my OJ. Just then, 2 homeless guys start fighting right there in front of me. THEN 2 cops come charging out of the pizza place and break up the fight, complete with the requisite racial epithets. While one cop drags one of the perps into his car, the other cop walks over to me and says "Hey nice bike, can you prove that it's yours?" I am black, by the way. I was livid and told him..."Yeah I can, would you like to take me to court so I can also prove that you are a jerk?", whereupon I reached into my seat pack and pulled out my wallet with my sales receipt and my driver's license to show that the wallet was mine too.

I am the last guy to pull the race card and certainly know how tough a job the cops have, I should, I work as a bail bondsman, in THAT community. But this kind of $hit makes me wonder if it will ever end. What kind of bike thief wears a pair of cycling shoes with cleats that just happen to match the pedals on the bike he stole, or wears a helmet, jersey, cycling shorts and cycling gloves? I got so upset I threw my bike on the rack of the next bus and took it home instead. I didn't feel like riding anymore that day.

Sorry for being so long-winded (handed?) gang. Rant over.

Brian

khuon

Ugh! That's the kind of stuff that causes a degradation in the overall respect for the police force. Did you happen to get their badge numbers? I would consider reporting them to the station chief. Even if you don't have their badge numbers, you know approximately the time and place of the incident. Remember, they're doing all this on your dime.

baj32161

I knew one of the cops (as I said, in my line of work you get to) and once I told him where I worked he assured me that nothing like that will ever happen again (he knows that I also know his captain). this is not an isolated incident as I have seen them hassle another guy in that part of town who rides a bright red Klein (he is black too)...same $hit, different toilet, I guess.

Brian

pdxtex

what a ****ing jerk..........

jitteringjr

I'm so sorry to hear that.

I wouldn't have showed him anything. He can't do that. I mean its not like people walk around with receipts to all their belongings. Do you have a receipt for your shoes with you? I don't. What about your freaking underwear? Where does it end?

Also, I wouldn't ride around with the receipt to my bike anyhow. What if it got stolen? Then the thief would have proof of ownership?

I hope that never happens to you again. Its a bummer because it only takes a few bad apples to destroy a lot of progress.

LordOpie

wow man, that friggin' sucks huge. Sorry about that frustration. I can't possibly imagine how pissed off I would be if that happened to me. What also sucks is that this obviously isn't the first time you've experienced such BS... I mean, you had your receipt with you!

PS: If your receipt doesn't specifically ID you as the purchaser, leave the original at home and keep a photocopy with you. A thief would appreciate getting your receipt.

oboeguy

Wow, nice pwnage of the cop. A shame this kind of nonsense still happens.

That cop has to be an idiot to not take into account the bike clothing!

Grasschopper

Well yes that sucks.

Hacker44240 don't be an idiot. Anyone can talk to anyone why does the cop need the "right" to talk to him...now that said he should do so in a respectable manner. And if you disrespect the cop they aren't going to give you ANY wiggle room...got to learn to be a people person.

To put another line on this I was pulled over several years ago while driving through the PSU main campus at 3 am. FWIW I am a whitie and so was the officer that pulled me over but it didn't mean I wasn't pissed. I had just dropped a friend off at home on the other side of town and was driving home. We had been working on the installation of a rather large amount of car audio equipment and there was still amps and speakers lying in the back of my Blazer. So I notice a squad car following me and I am sure to go the speed limit and stop for a full 3 counts at all stop signs but when I got to the edge of campus (now with 3 cars behind me) the lights came on. So I pulled over...having broken NO laws of any type and they start flashing their lights in the back of my Blazer. I knew right away they thought I stole the stuff and the officer asked me what I was doing in lot 82 (large student parking lot just off campus). I told him I wasn't there and they told me they saw me come out of it, which is total BS because I didn't go within a block of lot 82. So anyway they said they saw me in there and could I prove the stuff was mine...since I was installing the stuff I just happened to have the manuals and recipts with me for all the stuff so I got it out and got the guys badge number. They instantly changed their mood and the next day I called the campus police station and put in a formal complaint. I got a nice letter of appology on fancy PSU Police letterhead.

What I am trying to say is that this BS happens and some times it isn't even racial...but this very well looks like it was...but it still sucks when it happens.

jqnj

Hey man, I am up 31 from you in Flemington. Some cops carry attitude like it is their crutch and their condescention is laughable . I really feel for you and the color barrier is still VERY real, even here in JOISY where we can really say we are a melting pot. The job of a Trenton cop just sucks!!!! but that is no reason to lay into people who are mindin there own. I must say this. I respect cops for the job they do. I imagine being a cop and serving the public is a pain in the ass, worse than riding your bike without a seat. Thinking back to the people I grew up with or knew who are now cops, most are not the brightest bulb in the chandelier. That is not to say all are not smart. We take the good with the bad. Report his badge . He will never harass you again. If he does, hopefully some of the brothas will scare some of the white out of him!

Crash Dummy

That's just lame. Sad to hear that nonsense like that still goes on.

martin_j001

Sorry to hear about this Brian, you have every right to be pissed. As Crash Dummy just said, it sucks to hear that type of behavior and thinking is still out there.

terrymorse 

That's a bummer. Properly tensioned wheels shouldn't go out of true, no matter how rough the roads are. The racers of Paris-Roubaix ride mile after mile of horribly rough cobblestones, and their wheels stand up to the abuse. The only bow to the cobbles they make is to use standard, 32-spoke wheels--none of the fancy, low spoke count wheels.

If your wheels go out of true again, take them to a wheelbuilder (not a local bike shop) and ask that they be re-tensioned.

Also, sorry you had to be sujected to a jerk cop. One of them is one too many.

mooncricket

Bummer. Sorry to hear that, Brian. Don't know if you ever do bike tours outside the US. Cops in other countries are pretty nice to cyclists, practically make you feel like a super star. You even get cheers for speeding fast downhill.

Keeping a receipt for your bike in your wallet. Wow, that's really sad. Half the times, I forget bringing my wallet.

Cheers.

Stubacca

What an arrogant ****! I'd be reporting that too... this kind of attitude shouldn't have to be tolerated. To protect and serve? Can't see evidence of either in this case...

Vent away, man!!!

celticfrost

uuugghhhh --- my experience w/ the police is different, but similar. I've seen some people (IMO) get mistreated, harassed and brutalized by the police. I've also seen the police take advantage (or at least try to) of their status as police officers in order to try to get away w/ acting like cavemen yahoos. I'm not even going to go any further, because I'll just end up really offending anyone associated w/ law enforcement on this board and I would like to think that the vast majority of the police force is good. I suppose a lot of this may be just (stupid) human behavior and is certainly not limited to the police. If there's one cop who's acting like a knuckle dragging, jar head in public, I can understand why the other the police have to keep a united front (at least in public) and not call out the guy for acting like a jerk. But I do hope that behind the scencs (i.e., when the police are amongst themselves), that wiser heads prevail and crap like this (and other similar harassment) is really looked down upon. Knuckleheads like that one guy only help create a mistrusting public, which makes law enforcement even harder and more dangerous and helps NO ONE in the long run.

I doubt(?) you would have been arrested if you hadn't had your sales receipt, but it seems awfully ridiculous that you would even have to go out of your way to prove that you owned the bike, when the police have NO reason to think otherwise.

Monument Man

Cops are just like the rest of us. Most are good, some are unenlightened dickheads.

That really sucks what happened to you with that guy. Sounds like you held your head high and can feel proud of how you acted. Too bad you took the bus home and hopefully that guy and his comments won't keep you off the roads.

Serpico

That's really sick Brian, truly.

I am training a guy at work, his second day on the job he makes a racial remark about his coworkers at his last job. I was pretty shocked, he didn't use any slang/epithets, but what he said was pretty ignorant. btw, the place I work is 50/50 white/black --so I doubt he'll last long.

People are getting better, but there is a LONG way to go. I'm almost glad this guy at work made the race comment, now I know to put him on my idiot list and not to trust him/trust his judgement, etc.

Moochers_Dad

This isn't really directed at you, Brian; but I am using it as an example because it makes me ANGRY when cops pull stuff like that. I've had it happen three times in my life so i've learned to hold my ground.

Some cops are A****L*S. When you are not actually breaking the law; cops have very little rights. Notice how he asked you "can you prove it's yours?" If you are not doing anything illegal at the time; cops have the same rights as any regular person. But they usually use the form of a question to make you think you have to do what they say. Examples include "can i see some i.d.?" or "can you tell me what you are doing here this late at night?"

Honestly, if the cop knows a bike is stolen, he/she would just take it right then and there, and not ask for your permission.

The best defense is to make it clear that you are aware the cop is trying to perform and illegal search and seizure. You can ask questions back: "Officer, are you asking if I stole this bike, or do you have probable cause to seize it?" That makes him aware that you know he's up to something. Say it loudly and actually say "Officer" so others around can hear you.

Once you took out your i.d. you gave up all sorts of rights. NEVER show your i.d. to an officer when asked and especially when not asked. He can then take that info you supplied without being asked and run your name; and even type up a "stop and question" report. It's better to say loudly "I keep my i.d. in my wallet, but I am not giving permission for you to see it." Which would probably be met with the officer asking "why are you refusing to show it to me? are you up to something?" in which case you can just keep repeating "i'm not giving permission for you to see it." or say nothing. He/she would continue with questions to try to get YOU to take your i.d. out: "where is your wallet," "can I see it," "can you open it," "can you pull your i.d. out for me." It's the same as above; a cop can't just see your i.d., so he/she will forcefully ask "can i see some i.d.?" and because it's the same as a stranger asking you, you have the right to say "no" as you would with anyone else. But it takes guts to say "no" to someone with weapons. So again you can say "Officer, are you ASKING to see my i.d.; or telling me I am obligated to show it to you." The point again is if he/she really had the right to see it, he/she would just take your f**king wallet from you. Usually, they have more rights to do those things if they see you commiting a crime or if they feel they are in danger. The ONLY time this doesn't apply is if you are in a car; then you ARE under obligation to show your i.d. to them and if you refuse then they can assume there is a dangerous reason and proceed accordingly. But out on the street in public, again, cops have very little rights; just a lot of questions to break down YOUR rights. DOWN WITH THE MAN!

You can also answer the statement about it being a nice bike and the question about if you can prove the bike is yours with a simple "thank you, yes" but then don't do anything. I imagine he would keep asking you to do things until he's broken down your rights; at which point you can actually just stop talking to him.

Another tactic is to say "I can prove it's mine if it gets illegaly seized or stolen" which is another GREAT tactic. You can also say "I lock it up all the time but if someone ever steals it from me, then i can prove it was mine all along." In the eyes of the law, he can claim he was making sure you were safe with your bike since all he asked was "can you prove it's yours?" he can say to anyone "I was going to tell him to register it but he misunderstood and took out his i.d. which I ran through the computer and found he had a warrant for a traffic ticket in 1998. then he reached into his bag and i thought he was going for a weapon so i sprayed him with pepper spray and found a receipt in his hand."

Keep in mind none of this works if there are no other people around to witness any of it. And NEVER walk or ride away from an officer but feel free to ask "can I go about my business now?" or ask if you can leave.

As an example: one night in chicago I was waiting for a bus at 3am standing next to a total stranger. A cop car stopped at the bus stop and two officers got out and flat out asked us what we were doing. Obviously, when a white guy and a black guy are standing within 10 feet of each other at 3am in Chicago; it's got to be a major drug deal going down.

They asked to see my identification. I replied "Officer, i'm waiting for a bus." they asked again, and I said "Officer, i'm waiting for a bus" really loudly. Then they said "it looks like you two were doing something." the other guy was answering them but I stood my ground and said nothing. Then one of them walked behind me and lifted up my backpack that I was wearing and said "this feels heavy; what's in here?" All I said was "Officer, are you asking me to show you what's inside my closed bag or telling me I HAVE to show you?" they said "stay out of trouble" and left quicker than they got there. I went home and cleaned my pants.

this was a long rant; but i like to pretend i'm a know-it-all.

operator

I have quite the hard time believing this.

Moochers_Dad

It's true; you're not even under obligation to carry i.d. if you're not in a car. A driver's license is just that. A license to drive: hence you must supply it while you are driving; plus, cars are dangerous in themselves so an officer is reasonable and justified to feel that he/she is in danger with every traffic stop.

In public, not driving; if they have reason to suspect you are commiting an illegal act and you have no i.d.; you will be detained until they can verify your identity.

Keep in mind again; that a police officer has the same rights as anyone else on the street, provided you actually are minding your own business. This is why they ask questions and not just take actions. Anything they have the right to do, they just DO IT. Anything else, and they ask questions to get you to do it for them; thus giving up your rights.

If an officer says "can i see some i.d?" you can also ask "am i under arrest?" If the answer is "no" then use your right to remain silent. More than likely the officer would respond with "why would you be under arrest?" in which case you can say something like "officer, if i'm not under arrest then I am using my right to not speak to you." naturally, it's hard to remember any of this while it's happening and while you are thinking you are going to get clocked in the head with a flashlight.

I've done it
it works
they leave

serotta

In my opinion, it's much easier to show them my ID and let them read it. When they hand it back to me, I tell them to have a nice day and move along to my next item of business. I have always tried to take the path of least resistance with police officers based on the kind of crap they usually have to put up with in the administration of their jobs. Arrogance and a know it all attitude will only get you more attention than you desire. Some officers are jerks, just like some bike riders. You can't win with a jerk, so why try, just comply and leave as soon as possible with the minimum of conversation. I try to save my humor, wit, and command of the English language for my friends, not some jerk I'll never see again.

bluebottle1

Whoa...hold the weddin', Moocher. I understand you mean well here, and it irritates me no end to read about an incident like this, but you're just plain wrong when you say that a cop can't ask you for identification unless you're doing something illegal. That's not the case. Under a Supreme Court ruling last year (Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada), a police officer can ask you to identify yourself without probable cause and without implicating the Fourth Amendment unreasonable search and seizure clause.

Also, you advise here to invoke a right to remain silent if one is not under arrest. You don't have a right to remain silent if you are not under arrest. That's a Fifth Amendment right that comes into play only when you are taken into police custody. If you refuse to speak to him before being taken into custody, the cop may have authority to arrest you. It really depends what your particular state law says, but, make no mistake, if your state has a "stop and identify" statute, it likely doesn't run afoul of the Constitution on its own terms. That means you can't just tell the cop to go to hell.

Fat Boy Biker

While I believe this to be true in general in most US cities, I think their are some local exceptions. I ride on the Air Force Academy here in Colorado Springs. There is a nice MTB trail that runs through the grounds, and some of the roads are open to riders. However, it is an Academy requirement that you carry ID with you any time you are on the base.

I hate over zealous law enforcement, but I generally say yes sir, no sir, do what they as and go about my business. But I am beginning to lean towards more resistance.

Sorry to hear about your bad experience. Come out to Colorado, hopefully we can provide a better ride experience.

Chorus_Girl

I believe arrogant prick would be more appropriate.

Moochers_Dad

I don't really think the Hibel case is a good example. It actually backs up my point. The police in that case were conducting an assult investigation in which Hibel was drunk, standing next to a truck in which the police were told a man had been arguing with someone. So it was reasonable for them to demand identification to protect themselves by seeing with whom they were dealing. It applies to anyone suspected of wrongdoing.

Was Brian doing something wrong by standing next to his own bike?

You are allowed to be silent to anyone who talks to you on the street when you are minding your own business. Prisons and jails are full of people who think they must talk to the police and incriminate themselves before they are arrested. ANYTHING you say before and after you are arrested can be used against you or anyone else you talk about; so don't speak. Refusing to answer questions isn't illegal; it might make the police suspicious and detain you. But it's better to be detained until a lawyer shows up instead of incriminating yourself or someone else.

This is all off topic since it was clear that Brian wasn't doing anything wrong; except drinking O.J. And, we all know how O.J. really pisses cops off.

It's that sort of misconception when you mention I am just plain wrong that gets people into trouble. You have the right to remain silent at anytime an officer talks to you or questions you. People think that you only have that right after you are arrested.

I'm no lawyer; but i play one on T.V.