I was really surprised by my cadence on flats, when I got my computer. 115 is the norm! That just seems like a natural, normal cadence to me.

That's probably why I'm shifting so often between the big and small ring.

I wish I could do 115 - I'm not there yet, or maybe I never will be

Like I said before, if you know for certain your bike is in tune, it's not an issue, but there are plenty of people with der. hangers ever so slightly bent from that one time it fell over while they were leaning it against the car or whatever else may have happened. All it takes is that, or an improperly dialed limit screw to allow your chain to hop over the largest cog and into the spokes. Or if the chain doesn't hop over, the hanger might be just bent enough for the lower end of the cage to catch a spoke and then it's all over.

I saw it just a couple of weeks ago. I was coming up to a turn and saw a guy walking his bike off of the shoulder to the grass. I stopped to see if I could help, but it was pretty clear that he was going to have to make the call of shame. He had the chain on the big ring in front, and the derailleur was all wrapped up in the wheel. He was obviously on the largest rear cog and one of the two der/chain drop scenarios had happened. In that case, the force had ripped the rear wheel out of the dropouts and it looked like the left dropout had been pretty bent up. I guess he could have the dropout replaced as well, but it at least resulted in an expensive frame repair. In an extreme case, you can take out a chainstay.

And he even mentioned this had happened to him 2 times before already.... I didn't have the heart to discuss the dangers of cross chaining as he was already having a pretty miserable day.

EDIT: To clarify, a really bent hanger or out of tune derailleur could also put the derailleur into the spokes while in the small ring, but when you are in the big ring, you are maxed out on chain tension, making it more likely that the cage could be pulled towards the spokes or that the chain could hop off of the cog and into the spokes. If you're lucky, just the chain will fall back there and scuff up your spokes behind the cassette.

But again, for a perfectly tuned bike, it's not an issue. But not every rider knows how to tune a bike.

Maybe you live in the boonies and your "collegiate team" are the twerps from the local Lutheran college? Dunno... Where do you live? If you're interested to come out this way, I can give you very precise locations and times to get your wig blown on the flats by riders at 25mph and beyond. Just do a little search on Strava segments around Ann Arbor...you'll see. And I know it's way crazier in places like LA and Miami...probably most places, except where you ride, apparently.

Ha ha, no it's a university with enrollment of nearly 35K. The team has very strong rider, both road and offroad, and some ride both.

I've spent time in ann arbor but never ridden there.

There is a difference between riding at 25 mph on flats vs. AVERAGING 25 mph on flats, don't you think?

And yeah, I'm still super skeptical of the claims made by riders HERE on bikeforums.

It also probably explains why you're not going fast. If you were turning a decent gear at that speed, you'd be movin' fast. More likely, you're spinnin' a little baby gear and not putting any power to the pedals. You should try slowing it down and push bigger gears.

There are many riders that can go 40kph+ for long stretches, but very few can average that over a ride IME. Of course racers do, but in a different context.

This can only happen if you remove your spoke protector. I've ridden with the limit screw improperly set, I tried to down shift , and the chain bounced off the spoke protector and right back onto the largest (smallest gear)! No problem.

Like I said, cross chaining does not have to lead to disaster. Just keep your spoke protector on, and keep the limit screws set properly and everything is fine.

Of course, there may be a bit more wear and tear if you ride 50X12 or 11 a lot, but I'm assuming most people won't.

I don't think anyone is saying hitting 25mph is hard, it's the maintaining it and averaging that at the end of a ride that is hard, unless you have your garmin setup to never record speed data under 15mph or something.

I can easily maintain 20-25mph on a flat with fresh legs and little to no wind. I can even dial it up and hold 30mph for awhile. I've ridden a five hour century before.

But to average 25ish mph on every ride is a bold statement. Either that rider is in a location with little to no stop signs and low traffic or they're a beast. I can pedal my ass off for an hour (my commute home) and only average 19.5mph because there are 30 stops in between work and home.

If a person can make all of those stops and sprint up to 25+mph after each one where the rider holds an average of 25mph, than they should probably start racing and wait for the pro contracts to come in.

The laws of physics do not apply to riders here on bikeforums.

Ah, yes, I see what you're saying re: doing 25and averaging it! I guess I'd missed that someone made that claim, so thought you were reacting to something else. And yes, skepticism of what's posted here is good.

Hit me up next time you're in The Deuce, and we'll go for a ride; the rolling terrain is fun, especially for momentum riders.

I'm experimenting with both. I like having fun and keeping up with traffic at 25 to 30 mph on flats and slight downhills, but I also want to protect my knees for the long haul with a higher cadence.

It's fun to blow past other riders on flats pushing a big gear, but again, my health is more important than my ego.

Ha ha, I remember trying to rent out an apartment (in a not so nice area) by telling the potential tenant: "it only took me 6 minutes to get here from campus!" (I had ridden 2.5 miles slightly downhill). Of course, I absolutely had to haul a-- like never before and semi-disregard stop signs along the way.

A leisurely commute ride would've taken more like 15.

That's a normal average speed for a flatish race. Depends on the category of course.

It should be abundantly clear from context that we are talking about recreational rides, not races.

I'm not sure how many races feature hundreds of pedestrians and joggers in your path, along with dogs, roller skaters, kids meandering in every direction, dozens of stops and half stops, tree branches strewn here and there, roots pushing up pavement, or, taking a couple minutes to stop to sign a release form in a gated community etc etc etc.

If not for all of these factors I'm sure bikeforums riders would be averaging 35-40 mph on the flats.

What happens when a derailleur collapses becusse the chain is too shert when attempting to cross chain and the simpler chain jumping into the spokes are two very different things. You can be on small front/ big rear and have the chain jump into the spokes do to a misset limit screw. The cross chaining thing is more about the derailleur being torn loose due to a too short chain. I just don't want folks to think they are safe because they are not cross chaining.

Many things are abundantly clear from reading the threads on this forum, but I try to provide some accurate information anyways.

But neither of these scenarios should occur under normal circumstances.

Even with a limit screw set improperly, the spoke protector should prevent the chain from going into the spokes.

And no legitimate shop will ever sell a bike with a chain that's too short. Obviously, any recognized brand will come from the factory built to proper specs, including chain length with compatible derailleur.

As I said before, in the scenario above, the cross chain only became a problem because the rider removed the spoke protector. Leave it in place, no problem.

I added a clarification to that effect. And out of tune bike can put a chain in the spokes even while in the small ring. But if your hanger is bent, and your chain is still long enough, the cage can get caught in the spokes and you have much more of a problem than just the chain falling behind the cassette. It's very hard to say exactly what happened to a bike after the fact, because it's such a jumbled mess. But I have had bikes come in the shop for a simple tune up with bent hangers and even with a proper length of chain, the lower part of the cage is millimeters away from being pulled into the spokes.

Again, and as I've said several times, cross chaining is not a major issue for a properly tuned bike, but I've tuned up enough neglected bikes to know most riders don't have a clue.

1) it's called a dork disc for a reason.

2) With the popularity of compact cranksets and 11-28 cassettes, it's really easy to get a chain that is just a touch too short. I've seen it on a few new out of the box bikes. And even though the chain was just a little bit short, it was nearly too long on the small/small combo which is the other extreme you need to check a bike for.

3) I don't know how many times I have to say this, but the chain falling off the biggest cog is the best case scenario. It's really easy for the wheel spokes to grab that lower part of the derailleur cage and it's all over.

4) And I'll say it again: none of this matters on a properly tuned bike.

Because you said so? It serves a very important function and can protect both the rider and bicycle and prevent the sort of major f-ups you've documented. There's no point in trying to save a few grams when those grams can save your a-- and your bike.

Perhaps road workers should forego safety vests because the extra bulk causes fatigue, too.

How many is a "few?" Were the chain and derailleur properly spec'ed? Did you bother to contact the manufacturer about the issue? Also, see point 4 below.

Funny, I've never had spokes grab a derailleur cage. Most (all? lol) spokes point inward away from derailleur cages from what I've seen.

Or a bike with a dork disc.

I thought about taking the pie plate off. Perhaps I'll leave it on ...

With a standard crankset, I ride in the 39t when I will spend extended periods of time under 22mph.

This means that I mostly ride the small ring when JRA or doing longer endurance rides.

In 32 years of enthusiast cycling I have never owned nor ridden abike that had a dork disk installed. That's just the way enthusiast cycling is. Best to get everything else right.

How many years have you worked in a bike shop?