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Need advice on my routine

Old 08-09-15, 11:24 AM
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Need advice on my routine

Wsup everybody I have question for you guys.

I've been riding to work one way 4 days a week, for a total of 110 miles before the weekend. I typically go out on sat and sun for 30 - 50 mi each day for a weekly total of 160ish-200.

I also lift 3 days a week which I am now moving down to 2 days a week. I have been at loss for time lately, working out in the morning mon wed fri, the days the I ride home from work.

I am moving my workouts to 2 days per week mon and fri mornings only, and I need to adjust my weekday cycling schedule to accommodate more time in my life. I need to start studying to renew some certifications and I also need time to play video games, spend with the kids and wife. So here is my real question:

Instead of riding one way 4 days a week I'm thinking of riding to and from just 2 days a week. This would allow me 2 free weeknights ( I'll be home at 5 not 7 and not tired, sweaty etc..). The mileage would stay exactly the same however the frequency obliviously changes. I'm wondering how this would affect my performance. 56mi 2 days a week vs 28mi 4 days a week. I know that longer rides are supposedly better for endurance and overall conditioning but the 56 mi ride would be split into 2 28mi rides with an 8 hour work gap in between. Riding 4 days a week makes me feel great, even though its only about 30 miles they add up. I guess I'm just wondering if riding shorter distances every day is more beneficial or equal to riding a longer distance only several times a week. Also how would that 8 hour gap affect my training? Is it really an almost 60mi ride if stop halfway for 8 hours? I'm doing my best to find a plan that works where I can lift and ride at least 150mi a week. I refuse to choose one, if I don't do both I go insane. Lifting makes me feel strong and keeps me focused on maintaining and building muscle slowly. Riding just makes me feel effing alive and the calories expenditure is through the roof.

I know some will say this all comes down to effort and how hard I make these rides. I'm no pro by far but everything I do I do it hard. I would say my average speed based on my garmin records is about 18-18.5mph over 28mi. This is with me going ALMOST as hard as I can for about 75% of the ride. I will go balls out for 10 min, then gear down for about a min to re-cooperate and spin it up again. I'm 6'2@205lbs so I'm considered a clyde but not fat. MY goals are to get back down to about 185 and maintain or build muscle as well. My goals on the bike are just see improvements, which I know will come with weight loss I started 20lbs heavier and I'm much faster now than last season. I want to progress on the bike in terms of distance and average speed. Sorry for the rant. What do you think, will changing to this riding plan do anything to stunt/speed up my progress?

Edit-As far as diet, I have that dialed in. I will lose the wieght regardless if I only ride once per week. My real concerns in this post are about my progress in getting faster and endurance. I want to do a century next spring.

Last edited by latexyankee; 08-09-15 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 08-09-15, 11:55 AM
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Stop the lifting...larger muscle increase weight.

Ride More.
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Old 08-09-15, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by 10 Wheels
Stop the lifting...larger muscle increase weight.

Ride More.
Cant,wont,ever
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Old 08-09-15, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by latexyankee
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Then you'll probably never really improve that much.
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Old 08-09-15, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by K.Katso
Then you'll probably never really improve that much.
Ok well I beg to differ. I'm not sure how many people on these boards are at leat somewhat knowledgeable about general fitness but responses so far are alarming. Is everyone going for a chris froome look? Has anyone ever attempted a strength training routine? You may be surprised how it affects you on the bike as well as general respect in society and some offers from the ladies you cant seem to approach.

Also I will get nothing but faster from strength training...yep faster. Stop being so scared of lifting some heavy weight, you're not racing professionally and neither am I.

My question has to do with riding 28 mi 4 days a week or riding 2 days a week for 56mi but split into two segments with an 8 hour break in between becuase of work. What are the advantages/disadvantages or pros and cons of either routine?
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Old 08-09-15, 02:35 PM
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Coming in from a runners background I see cycling basically the same as running. You need one long ride a week that goes I would say 60-80 miles. Then one medium day of going say 40 miles. Then two days of one being working on intervals, hills, or whatever ever, and finally a day to just spin easy. Personally I was riding full time and not running I would want to ride 200 miles weeks for sure but at times 250 would be ok. At 205 pounds you probably are a bit big to be great in the mountains but could be fun to work on that.
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Old 08-09-15, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by latexyankee
Ok well I beg to differ. I'm not sure how many people on these boards are at leat somewhat knowledgeable about general fitness but responses so far are alarming. Is everyone going for a chris froome look? Has anyone ever attempted a strength training routine? You may be surprised how it affects you on the bike as well as general respect in society and some offers from the ladies you cant seem to approach.

Also I will get nothing but faster from strength training...yep faster. Stop being so scared of lifting some heavy weight
Ok well you are wrong. And defensive, and a little erratic and accusatory. It's a known fact that weight and cycling are not things that go together. Successful cyclists are built more like jockies than body builders. Outright strength won't take you nearly as far as aerobic endurance, and that's what most cyclists aim to build. I doubt most here are doing this for a look, or to impress ladies. (Never mind the accusations and assumptions attached to such a remark). If you'd like to improve with cycling, realize you can't hammer yourself there, it's a bike, lot a leg press machine.
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Old 08-09-15, 03:54 PM
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I used to commute one way 27 miles. I cut back from three times a week to twice. I also did a 70 mile or so ride one day on the weekend with 30 the other. That gave me 200 miles on four days a week. I skipped lifting completely until the winter. I couldn't imagine trying to get faster and lift seriously at the same time.

I also do tris and lift with that but it's relatively light.
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Old 08-09-15, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by CafeVelo
Ok well you are wrong. And defensive, and a little erratic and accusatory. It's a known fact that weight and cycling are not things that go together. Successful cyclists are built more like jockies than body builders. Outright strength won't take you nearly as far as aerobic endurance, and that's what most cyclists aim to build. I doubt most here are doing this for a look, or to impress ladies. (Never mind the accusations and assumptions attached to such a remark). If you'd like to improve with cycling, realize you can't hammer yourself there, it's a bike, lot a leg press machine.

You are wrong, uneducated, misinformed and a pleasure. Outright strength will do wonders to endurance. were not talking a professional bodybuilders physique nor are we talking about a 2006 Armstrong build. Which he did upper body workout routine for years by the way but ya know...cheating and doping. Coming from a sports background I can assure you that the maximum amount of pure lean muscle mass will do nothing but aid in any aerobic activity.

I could link many articles and conclusive studies but i deem it worthless at this point. Do some research into pure lean muscle mass and cardiovascular benefits. Does strength matter to you? Or your ability to adapt? Your definition of successful most likely differs from most on here. I really doubt most regular cyclists on this forum are aiming to lose the most weight possible. Is this the 41? oh my bad ladies Never mind the accusations and assumptions attached to that remark, I'm just much more confident than you in my abilities.

Last edited by latexyankee; 08-09-15 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 08-09-15, 05:12 PM
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Need advice on my routine

You're going both too hard and at the same time not
Hard enough. You need a
Mix of long endurance rides, shorter interval efforts, and recovery rides.

Your focus on average speed is counterproductive.

Get a book from Friel or Carmichael on training, and or search threads on here about training plans.
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Old 08-09-15, 05:38 PM
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It sounds to me like you would benefit from doing some longer rides. Two 30 mile rides in one day is not the same as doing a 60 mile ride. If all your rides are 30 miles or less, you'll likely begin to feel the accumulated miles on much longer rides. After you do some 60-70 miles rides you'll begin to get used to that distance. If you go with a group, even better if you need to sit in some. As mentioned, try not to focus on average speed. Spend some time researching interval training and put your energy there if you want to get faster.

You will see a variety of opinions when it comes to lifting. The extra weight and bulk it adds will hurt you on the bike. However, I agree that cycling alone is not enough for me. I was doing some floor exercises, minor lifting, etc. to focus on the core. At the beginning of the year I joined a gym and have enjoyed the variety of equipment that allows you to focus on certain areas. My main interest is to strengthen the core, but will also spend some time on the legs, arm, chest with specific equipment. I also try to do some cardio if weather canceled a ride.

If you're not already doing so, I'd suggest you seek out a group to ride with, since you will gain some additional skill and knowledge from those you ride with.
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Old 08-09-15, 06:12 PM
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I can't offer any advice for your routine. I also lift weights as a part of my fitness "routine." I have worked out since high school and I am now 52. I have had to change my workouts over the years due to joint issues and other stuff, but I don't ever intend to quit lifting. I'm 190 pounds and fairly lean. I have no desire to look like Chris Froome. I do about 10K a year including 8-10 centuries, some of which have 10K+ feet of climbing, and I usually finish in the top 20% of the field, at worse. I have always participated in sports and still consider myself an athlete who just happens to like cycling.

Weight lifting is not understood by many people. Some people avoid it like the plague, but I think it is an essential part of a total fitness routine. I personally would rather look like "The Rock" (Dwayne Johnson) than Froome whether I could ride a bike well or not. That's just my opinion.
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Old 08-09-15, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
You're going both too hard and at the same time not
Hard enough. You need a
Mix of long endurance rides, shorter interval efforts, and recovery rides.

Your focus on average speed is counterproductive.

Get a book from Friel or Carmichael on training, and or search threads on here about training plans.
Thank you, this is the type of response i was looking for. I am not new to cycling but this is the first time I actually considered really attempting to improve my general performance. I will read up.
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Old 08-09-15, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by latexyankee
Also I will get nothing but faster from strength training...yep faster. Stop being so scared of lifting some heavy weight, you're not racing professionally and neither am I.
You don't really see body builders that pick up road cycling, heck you don't see huge track cyclists on the road or winning a tour de france stage. This is an endurance sport, very similar to distance running and open water swimming. There really aren't any huge endurance athletes that are extremely successful. Now sprinting, is a race won in the weight room.
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Old 08-09-15, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by dieselgoat
I can't offer any advice for your routine. I also lift weights as a part of my fitness "routine." I have worked out since high school and I am now 52. I have had to change my workouts over the years due to joint issues and other stuff, but I don't ever intend to quit lifting. I'm 190 pounds and fairly lean. I have no desire to look like Chris Froome. I do about 10K a year including 8-10 centuries, some of which have 10K+ feet of climbing, and I usually finish in the top 20% of the field, at worse. I have always participated in sports and still consider myself an athlete who just happens to like cycling.

Weight lifting is not understood by many people. Some people avoid it like the plague, but I think it is an essential part of a total fitness routine. I personally would rather look like "The Rock" (Dwayne Johnson) than Froome whether I could ride a bike well or not. That's just my opinion.
I agree on pretty much all points. I see that this is a very sensitive topic on BF. I guess everyone assumes that the goal on these boards is to be faster lighter no matter the sacrifice. I and I believe most others feel different. If I am competitive in my group rides (which I openly admit have never done one) ride for my cardiovascular and push myself to become the best I can be on the bike then I will still be faster than 98% of the people out riding. All we ar email talking about is improvement and I guarantee that me at 180lbs solid is faster than most at 160lbs with no workout regimen. He'll I'm living proof of this from 5 years ago when I used to ride with good friends. Not saying I will beat you in a race but the benifits of strength training or undervalued in the cycling community IMO. Again if we were training for the tour of California, it may be a different story.
Like the poster above said, I may look into interval traiming and find time for one 75mi ride per week to get my endurance up.
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Old 08-09-15, 07:09 PM
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I went from military shape (USAF, 200 miles/wk on bike, 5 hrs in gym), which was easy when in your 20's and single, to almost pure bodybuilding. I was 165 in the USAF, and able to bench almost double that, and squat nearly triple in powerlifting mode (5 days/wk, no cardio), got up to 180# at 6% bf. Then I started to get back into cycling, wanting to race. Gave the gym up, went pure riding at 300 mi/wk. Dropped to 160, and got my FTP to around 4.5 W/kg. Rode 7 days/wk. Sandbagged it as a Cat 5.

Got married and I wanted to spend weekends with the wife instead of getting 150 miles in. Started bodybuilding again. Got up to 215 this time, again below 10% bf. Had a kid, stayed 215, got fat.

I'm back to the bike (minus my accident suspending all physical activity for over 6 weeks now). I enjoy it more than any other activity (except a more private one). I'll probably get back to the weights at some point, but with the collarbone still healing, it'll be a long time.

My my point is, if you want to be fast on the bike, dedicate your time to the bike. Weights still have a place, but only for core and leg exercises, and part of making cycling better, not your body. If you want to look like a bodybuilder, dedicate to the weights and limit cardio to lifting weights faster.

If if you like riding the bike, then ride it. If you like lifting weights, then lift. If you like both, then do both.
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Old 08-09-15, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Bunyanderman
You don't really see body builders that pick up road cycling, heck you don't see huge track cyclists on the road or winning a tour de france stage. This is an endurance sport, very similar to distance running and open water swimming. There really aren't any huge endurance athletes that are extremely successful. Now sprinting, is a race won in the weight room.
+1. If you're convinced that your ability to pick up heavy objects makes you a good cyclist, or in any way superior to anyone else (save for comparisons of those picking up heavy objects) then fine, enjoy your meathead life. The fact is that body type matters for this sport, and you are in fact held up by it at a certain point. Accept it, and adapt yourself accordingly based on goals. I don't have time for this, there are bikes to build.
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Old 08-10-15, 01:23 AM
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I spent the large majority of my competitive riding as a speed athlete on the velodrome. I spent a lot of time in the gym and on the velodrome. I couldn't climb a hill fast to save my life. I was very good in flat fast crits., but even a small climb on the course put me under stress. Size will help your flat out speed, but will negatively effect your ability to climb. There is nothing wrong with doing both. I tend to ride with guys who wait at the tops of hills or slow down to regroup. I need to get back in the gym. I won't lift like I was when I was sprinting, but there are a lot of health benefits to weights.
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Old 08-10-15, 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by latexyankee
Has anyone ever attempted a strength training routine? You may be surprised how it affects you on the bike as well as general respect in society and some offers from the ladies you cant seem to approach.
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Old 08-10-15, 05:11 AM
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OP, you're overthinking it. The kind of change you're talking about is nominal and probably won't yield any improvements, in fact, it sounds like what it is - a compromise. If you want to ride more and faster, then ride more and faster. It's as simple as that.

Of course you can be a better cyclist than most bodybuilders, and can have a more developed physique than most cyclists - you should be happy with that! But face it - there's a reason guys who look like Froome win the TdF and guys who look like Schwartzenegger can't get through a single stage, and this tendency holds true down to the local club and Strava level. Surely a guy who needs time for video games is NOT going to be the exception.
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Old 08-10-15, 05:39 AM
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[MENTION=383585]latexyankee[/MENTION] if you need to save some time, consider doing some of your rides on a stationary trainer or stationary bike. The right stationary setup along with the right training regimen can be highly productive in just 1hr.

Ideally, you want a power meter eqipped stationary, so you can train to power and be really focused and precise with your efforts and hit your goals.

The economical setup would be to get a Powertap wheel to use on your bike and mount that bike on a trainer. Trainers, however, can do more: they can be simple like Kurt Kinetics fluid resistance, or offer built-in power meters and electronic control, e.g Wahoo Kickr, to integrate with computer simulators or even online games like Zwift.

Stationary work is ideal for interval training, and because it's easier to hit targets and manage your time using one than cycling outdoors, they're very efficient ways to spend ride time. An hour on a stationary can be as productive as 1.5-2hrs on the bike because there is no coasting, no lights, no wind, no confounding variables to prevent you from executing your plan exactly as you want.

As for lifting, I agree with you: do it. The two most successful cycling coaches here in my town (those with the fastest racers) integrate weight training into their programs. Whomever said most people don't understand weight training was right.
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Old 08-10-15, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by latexyankee
I also need time to play video games,
Possibly the saddest thing I've ever read.
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Old 08-10-15, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarch
OP, you're overthinking it. The kind of change you're talking about is nominal and probably won't yield any improvements, in fact, it sounds like what it is - a compromise. If you want to ride more and faster, then ride more and faster. It's as simple as that.

Of course you can be a better cyclist than most bodybuilders, and can have a more developed physique than most cyclists - you should be happy with that! But face it - there's a reason guys who look like Froome win the TdF and guys who look like Schwartzenegger can't get through a single stage, and this tendency holds true down to the local club and Strava level. Surely a guy who needs time for video games is NOT going to be the exception.
Yea, I agree there will most likely be no difference aside from becoming tired early those nights.

I apologize for all the strength training talk. I realize this is not the place to discuss this type of matter. If some of you would understand that weights will not you, you may be surprised. At 6'2 and 180lbs is considered scrawny by the bodybuilding community. Google a picture of a man this size who works out regularly. Then attempt to find an image of the same man of equal height and weight with no weight training regimen. You would swear the first guy weighs 155lbs. All I'm saying is that weight is weight, and If the majority of the weight is lean muscle mass I will most likely outperform the same individual in an endurance related activity. That is all I've been trying to convey. I do not wish to loose weight to an unhealthy level to become faster. With the amount of riding I usually do I simply cannot get BIG. I would have to eat 5000 cals a day to build muscle. There is nothing wrong with lifting heavy as you can to preserve muscle and further definition. Please dont take this as an act of aggression. I understand that some of you cant and will never understand these concepts, but my goals are different from yours. I aim to be in peak physical athletic shape. Not big, not small, just lean and powerful. Lifting will not hurt you, in fact most of you who don't lift would most likely LOSE weight in the first three months of your strength training routine, but become stronger. Its all about calories. If you want to be 140lbs to become faster you can, and workout at the same time.

Thanks
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Old 08-10-15, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by therhodeo
Possibly the saddest thing I've ever read.
Yep 37 years old and been at it since I was 4. Play with kids after our bike rides and on rainy/wintery days.

The only sad thing is you lacking the ability to open your mind to something different than your 6 hour netflix binge watching of real housewives. I'll be improving my coordination and sharpening my thought process. Just because I choose a different form of media than you to relax with is by no means sad. I wonder how much TV you stare at per week. I'm sure you'll respond with "none". Youre out helping the homeless and rescuing drowning babies when not riding your bike. At least I know you're not in the gym.
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Old 08-10-15, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by latexyankee
Yep 37 years old and been at it since I was 4. Play with kids after our bike rides and on rainy/wintery days.

The only sad thing is you lacking the ability to open your mind to something different than your 6 hour netflix binge watching of real housewives. I'll be improving my coordination and sharpening my thought process. Just because I choose a different form of media than you to relax with is by no means sad. I wonder how much TV you stare at per week. I'm sure you'll respond with "none". Youre out helping the homeless and rescuing drowning babies when not riding your bike. At least I know you're not in the gym.
I would recommend doing less riding and lifting and play more video games if this is the case.

And yeah I watch only enough tv a week to watch an episode of Signing Time a day with my deaf son so I could definitely cut back.
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