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Originally Posted by PepeM
(Post 18204185)
So he is a better basketball player than me. Also better at football. I bet I am better than him at cycling, soccer, and boxing. Am I the better athlete now?
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Originally Posted by BillyD
(Post 18205295)
#facepalm
Isn't that like saying all you need to be a pro cyclist is weigh less than 140 lbs? No skill set involved, just the right body type? Come on now, you can't mean that. Say it isn't so, please! PLEASE! :lol: |
Originally Posted by baribari
(Post 18205246)
The fact that 1 in 7 American males over 7' tall is in the NBA pretty much proves that all you need is height. I laugh my ass off when I hear about teenagers over 7' being so "talented" when talent is completely irrelevant. If the goal was only 6' tall, then you wouldn't need height.
For someone 6'8" to 6'11" it's 1/2 of 1%. |
Originally Posted by 69chevy
(Post 18205308)
It "proves it" lmao. Did you read the article? When a kid hits 6' tall in grade school, coaches invest a lot of time. If you had a cycling coach at the age of 10, you'd probably be a team rider.
When you go from a statistical impossibility (1 in a million) for the general population to ONE IN SEVEN, that proves that being incredibly tall is enough to have a very decent shot at an NBA career. |
Take any TDF gen. class. winner IN THEIR PRIME and put them in the nba. Or D1 college ball. Or D2 or D3 college ball. The results would be totally embarrassing.
Take the same TDF winner and give them a year of full time training with the best basketball coaches, and state of the art training. They still wouldn't be able to make a college D1/D2/D3 roster. Miguel Indurain at 6'3" MIGHT get some playing time on a high school roster in a small town. Again, he'd be totally embarrassed in a high profile high school program in a big city. Conversely.... Take Lebron James. Put him in an NFL uniform TODAY. He'd make a roster. Take Lebron James and give him a year of full time training in crit racing with state of the art training and the best coaches. He would be an absolute terror. There is absolutely no comparison between elite NBA athletes and pro cyclists. None. Lebron James has a 42"+ vertical, has an elite 40 time, freakish strength, freakish size, freakish speed, freakish hand eye coordination and freakish durability. I haven't even mentioned Wilt Chamberlain. Let's Take Shaq. 7'1" 382 lbs with cat like quickness and a 37" vertical and pushes around 270 lb centers as if they weren't even there. Pro cyclists can sit on a bicycle seat and move their feet round and round for 2,000 miles in a month, but that does not in any way shape or form compare to the athletic ability of NBA or NFL players.
Originally Posted by Leinster
(Post 18204697)
Well that's hardly a fair comparison. If Eddy, Mig and Lance have to go up against NBA players, why shouldn't we make LeBron saddle up and pin on a number against a field of World Tour pros? If LeBron gets to try and dominate a local Cleveland crit race, I say we see how Merckx does in the local Leuven seniors pickup league before asking him to throw down against Wilt Chamberlain.
The problem is, you've designed a test that cyclists can only fail; of course pro cyclists are unlikely candidates to compete in the NFL or NBA; those are 2 sports that reward size and power, particularly in short bursts, whereas cycling rewards endurance and penalises size. You're also making assumptions about the ball skills of cyclists on no evidence whatsoever. While I've no doubt that there are guys in the pro peloton who can't catch cold, pass gas, or dribble gatorade, for all you know Chris Froome may have a better 3-point %age than Steph Curry, but you'll never find out for certain because you'll never see him play. Oh,and Nacer Bouhanni is planning a pro boxing career once he's done with cycling. Presumably down the weight divisions. I'd say if you asked, an awful lot of current pro cyclists got offered trials, maybe even contracts, by top level soccer clubs in their home countries. I'd be willing to bet, even having never seen him play, that Peter Sagan is a better soccer player than you or anyone you know. There's probably more than a few high-level-talent tennis, golf, squash, whatever players in the ranks (almost definitely some cricketers with all the Aussies). Thing is,you just know that with all the athletic talent there is in a Tour de France field, there have to be a few of those type of guys who are just infuriatingly good at everything they do. |
Originally Posted by baribari
(Post 18205380)
This just proves my point! A kid who hits 6' in grade school gets the attention of coaches BECAUSE EXTREME HEIGHT IS THE PRIMARY FACTOR IN PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL.
When you go from a statistical impossibility (1 in a million) for the general population to ONE IN SEVEN, that proves that being incredibly tall is enough to have a very decent shot at an NBA career. Even EIGHTY SIX PERCENT of 7 footers don't make the NBA. Can you read? |
I'm a huge NBA fan. The skill level of the smaller guys like Steph Curry, Russell Westbrook, and Chris Paul is light years beyond what the big guys are capable of.....when you're under 6'4" there is no real wiggle room for mediocrity....if you are under 6' you'll have to be super human. Nate Robinson and Ty Lawson have to be amazing just to be average in the League. The taller you get, the more they'll ignore players lacking in skills. Anyone who's spent time watching the sport knows how bad some of the centers are; half the guys can't even shoot over 60% from the line or crossover an opponent.
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Originally Posted by calimtb
(Post 18205386)
There is absolutely no comparison between elite NBA athletes and pro cyclists. None.
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Originally Posted by furiousferret
(Post 18205400)
I'm a huge NBA fan. The skill level of the smaller guys like Steph Curry, Russell Westbrook, and Chris Paul is light years beyond what the big guys are capable of.....when you're under 6'4" there is no real wiggle room for mediocrity....if you are under 6' you'll have to be super human. Nate Robinson and Ty Lawson have to be amazing just to be average in the League. The taller you get, the more they'll ignore players lacking in skills. Anyone who's spent time watching the sport knows how bad some of the centers are; half the guys can't even shoot over 60% from the line or crossover an opponent.
Then again, there are quite a few 7 footers who seemingly have a tough time walking and chewing gum at the same time. But their height, reach and size are such an advantage for rebounding and shot blocking, they're going to find their way onto an NBA roster. Look out for Porzingis, though. He's 7'2" and has 3 point range and true all around basketball skills. |
On another note, Lebron might make a decent track cyclist, but he's simply too heavy to be a TdF-level road racer. That said, he's clearly a superior physical specimen to pretty much every person on the planet, including probably every pro cyclist. But because basketball pays more than the decathlon, we'll never know if he's the "greatest" athlete.
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Originally Posted by baribari
(Post 18205434)
. . .
On another note, Lebron might make a decent track cyclist, but he's simply too heavy to be a TdF-level road racer. That said, he's clearly a superior physical specimen to pretty much every person on the planet, including probably every pro cyclist. But because basketball pays more than the decathlon, we'll never know if he's the "greatest" athlete. Another poster mentioned that Bill Walton competed as a track racer, and since this is a power event, I find that claim credible. As I said before, TDF winners are great at sitting on a seat and spinning their feet round and round for 2K miles. It's a tremendous feat of endurance, but these athletes hardly rank among the elite athletes of all time. The decathlon is a great track and field event but very different from face to face, interactive competition on the same court or field. |
calimtb, have you ever raced?
also, is your name Sam? |
Originally Posted by calimtb
(Post 18205370)
If you believe you are a better than Lebron James in any sport you are spending as much time with 420 as with the 41.
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LeBron James is built like a sprinter/Kilo rider. Incredible vertical is a trait of both athletes. Those type of riders generally don't do well in criteriums. They don't have speed endurance. It very taxing to put out those high efforts for long periods of time. European crits. tend to be longer courses than U.S. races and tend to be fairly long. Theo and Marty are about the only sprinters I can think of that made a successful switch to road racing.
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Originally Posted by calimtb
(Post 18205386)
Let's Take Shaq. 7'1" 382 lbs with cat like quickness and a 37" vertical and pushes around 270 lb centers as if they weren't even there.
Then let's put him in Milan San Remo the next March, and watch him get shelled out the back before he even gets to the foot of the Turchino. And that's being generous. Being honest, he wouldn't make it round the first lap in a decent level Crit without rebounding off (or even over) some barriers. Let's put Yao Ming on a bike, see how far he gets. Or Charles Barkley; by the time the race is half over, he'd be back in the team bus stealing everybody's Clif bars and asking the cook for extra helpings of mac n cheese. |
Originally Posted by calimtb
(Post 18205386)
Take any TDF gen. class. winner IN THEIR PRIME and put them in the nba. Or D1 college ball. Or D2 or D3 college ball. The results would be totally embarrassing.
Take the same TDF winner and give them a year of full time training with the best basketball coaches, and state of the art training. They still wouldn't be able to make a college D1/D2/D3 roster. Miguel Indurain at 6'3" MIGHT get some playing time on a high school roster in a small town. Again, he'd be totally embarrassed in a high profile high school program in a big city. Conversely.... Take Lebron James. Put him in an NFL uniform TODAY. He'd make a roster. Take Lebron James and give him a year of full time training in crit racing with state of the art training and the best coaches. He would be an absolute terror. There is absolutely no comparison between elite NBA athletes and pro cyclists. None. Lebron James has a 42"+ vertical, has an elite 40 time, freakish strength, freakish size, freakish speed, freakish hand eye coordination and freakish durability. I haven't even mentioned Wilt Chamberlain. Let's Take Shaq. 7'1" 382 lbs with cat like quickness and a 37" vertical and pushes around 270 lb centers as if they weren't even there. Pro cyclists can sit on a bicycle seat and move their feet round and round for 2,000 miles in a month, but that does not in any way shape or form compare to the athletic ability of NBA or NFL players. what a genius of a revelation that nobody has already or would ever discover by themselves. |
Originally Posted by BillyD
(Post 18205207)
Spoken like a man that can't play basketball. Like that other guy I referenced earlier, to imply that all you need is height to be a good basketball player is the height of folly. And the gymnastics reference is equally bad.
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Originally Posted by calimtb
(Post 18205386)
Conversely.... Take Lebron James and give him a year of full time training in crit racing with state of the art training and the best coaches. He would be an absolute terror. I think you are way underestimating the impact of mass, and how much power to weight some of us even middling Cat 2's can generate. |
The natural tendency is to pedal faster when you think you're being watched.
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There is no argument more irrefutable than one based on 'ifs' and 'woulds'.
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How often do you drink beer or eat candy? Do you eat donuts or ice cream more than once or twice a month? Do you really understand nutrition? Do you ride a lot AND make sure the miles you put in are not garbage? Do you balance that focused mileage against real recovery days? Do you have a real training plan? Do you have a coach that actually knows what he's doing? Do you ride all year round? Do you ride in bad weather? Are you willing to put in 4-5hr trainer days when the weather is dangerous? Do you work on your on the bike skills (cornering, eating in the middle of an interval, etc)? Do you brush up on tactical know-how? Have you figured out how to minimize normal life stress? Do you make sure you sleep enough every single night? Are you willing to skip socializing to prioritize recovery? Are you willing to sacrifice career goals and make way less money (or if you're younger, education)?
Yes genetics are involved, but the things these people do to get to the top do not boil down to 4 minute training montages and you shouldn't fool yourself into thinking they're space aliens cut from an entirely different cloth. It's years and years and years of day to day discipline, dedication, and attention to detail that would crack most people mentally. It's focusing 100% on a goal and in many ways not living a life beyond it. |
Ok lets see:
1. Genetics are important 2. So is training Anyone disagree? No. Good. |
A bunch of people who can't excel at ANY sport on a professional level arguing about elite professional athletes and how hypothetically good/bad each would do outside of their respective sport.
You're all wasting so much of your life right now. I'm just glad I haven't read this whole thread. |
Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
(Post 18205887)
Yes genetics are involved, but the things these people do to get to the top do not boil down to 4 minute training montages and you shouldn't fool yourself into thinking they're space aliens cut from an entirely different cloth. It's years and years and years of day to day discipline, dedication, and attention to detail that would crack most people mentally. It's focusing 100% on a goal and in many ways not living a life beyond it.
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
(Post 18205887)
How often do you drink beer or eat candy? Do you eat donuts or ice cream more than once or twice a month? Do you really understand nutrition? Do you ride a lot AND make sure the miles you put in are not garbage? Do you balance that focused mileage against real recovery days? Do you have a real training plan? Do you have a coach that actually knows what he's doing? Do you ride all year round? Do you ride in bad weather? Are you willing to put in 4-5hr trainer days when the weather is dangerous? Do you work on your on the bike skills (cornering, eating in the middle of an interval, etc)? Do you brush up on tactical know-how? Have you figured out how to minimize normal life stress? Do you make sure you sleep enough every single night? Are you willing to skip socializing to prioritize recovery? Are you willing to sacrifice career goals and make way less money (or if you're younger, education)?
Yes genetics are involved, but the things these people do to get to the top do not boil down to 4 minute training montages and you shouldn't fool yourself into thinking they're space aliens cut from an entirely different cloth. It's years and years and years of day to day discipline, dedication, and attention to detail that would crack most people mentally. It's focusing 100% on a goal and in many ways not living a life beyond it. The point is that unless you are a select few gifted by the grace of god, no amount of money, training, or dedication will put you on equal footing to professionals in performance. In fact, if that was true, you'd see millionaires and heirs disproportionately represented in the athletic ranks. |
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