Of Course Equipment Matters
01-07-16, 01:36 PM
#51
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Northern San Diego
Posts: 1,726
Bikes: mid 1980s De Rosa SL, 1985 Tommasini Super Prestige all Campy SR, 1992 Paramount PDG Series 7, 1997 Lemond Zurich, 1998 Trek Y-foil, 2006 Schwinn Super Sport GS, 2006 Specialized Hardrock Sport
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
How much faster is a red bike than a blue one? And what about unusual colors like Celeste?
01-07-16, 01:39 PM
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Northern San Diego
Posts: 1,726
Bikes: mid 1980s De Rosa SL, 1985 Tommasini Super Prestige all Campy SR, 1992 Paramount PDG Series 7, 1997 Lemond Zurich, 1998 Trek Y-foil, 2006 Schwinn Super Sport GS, 2006 Specialized Hardrock Sport
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
On flat ground, not really. If you're carrying it up the stairs when your ride is done, it could matter a lot.
There's a "joke" among photographers: Guy says to me, "those are great photos! what camera do you use?" I told him "that's a great book you wrote, what typewriter do you use?" The rub is the guy telling the joke has a $3,000 lens, and wouldn't have bought it if he believed gear doesn't matter.
There's a "joke" among photographers: Guy says to me, "those are great photos! what camera do you use?" I told him "that's a great book you wrote, what typewriter do you use?" The rub is the guy telling the joke has a $3,000 lens, and wouldn't have bought it if he believed gear doesn't matter.
01-07-16, 01:51 PM
#53
I'm doing it wrong.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,875
Bikes: Rivendell Appaloosa, Rivendell Frank Jones Sr., Trek Fuel EX9, Kona Jake the Snake CR, Niner Sir9
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9742 Post(s)
Liked 2,812 Times
in
1,664 Posts
01-07-16, 02:19 PM
#54
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 15,280
Bikes: Nashbar Road
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2934 Post(s)
Liked 341 Times
in
228 Posts
I said something similar once, adding that most people probably don't race on their bikes. Seems like common sense. But somebody pointed out that triathletes race their bikes, and there are vast numbers of them with season tickets and day passes. Presumably using them at least once in awhile. So I had to admit that there are more bike racers than I ever imagined, perhaps enough to even account for "most" of the racing bikes being ridden.
01-07-16, 02:56 PM
#55
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mountain View, CA USA and Golden, CO USA
Posts: 6,341
Bikes: 97 Litespeed, 50-39-30x13-26 10 cogs, Campagnolo Ultrashift, retroreflective rims on SON28/PowerTap hubs
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 550 Post(s)
Liked 325 Times
in
226 Posts
The big question is, at what point does it no longer matter? There is a reason we don't see successful bike racers on 35lb bikes. However, is a 15lb bike a real world advantage over a 19lb bike or are there other things that negate the advantage that the difference in weight gives?
Most of us know the real answer, though it is fun buying things for one's hobby.
Most of us know the real answer, though it is fun buying things for one's hobby.
Waiting 31 minutes and 25 seconds for your group's stragglers to catch up isn't an improvement.
OTOH, if you missed your 1-hour Diablo jersey by 60 seconds last year it's entirely worthwhile.
On flat ground the speed difference won't be measurable, and energy accelerating not significant even in criteriums.
01-07-16, 03:38 PM
#56
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,433
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 741 Post(s)
Liked 412 Times
in
230 Posts
Pretty sure you didn't buy a sprint bike. Sprint bikes are built to withstand crashes and and 200 plus pound guys generating 2,600 watts. My sprint bike was built before the introduction of carbon frames on the velodrome. It weighs 19 lbs. Steel stem and bars. Mass start track frames, which is what you probably have, are similar to road bike frames.
01-07-16, 03:39 PM
#57
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 870
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
1 Post
The big question is, at what point does it no longer matter? There is a reason we don't see successful bike racers on 35lb bikes. However, is a 15lb bike a real world advantage over a 19lb bike or are there other things that negate the advantage that the difference in weight gives?
Most of us know the real answer, though it is fun buying things for one's hobby.
Most of us know the real answer, though it is fun buying things for one's hobby.
01-07-16, 03:43 PM
#58
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,433
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 741 Post(s)
Liked 412 Times
in
230 Posts
Whether something matters or not is an individual choice but everyone here likes to think that whatever apply to them should apply to everyone else too.
Whether better aerodynamics or lower weight make a difference isn't up for debate and can in fact be demonstrated, sometimes easily and sometimes not so much. Whether the magnitude of said difference is perceptible is again up to the individual, as is the decision of whether the magnitude of the difference is relevant or not.
Now discuss away for another ten pages.
Whether better aerodynamics or lower weight make a difference isn't up for debate and can in fact be demonstrated, sometimes easily and sometimes not so much. Whether the magnitude of said difference is perceptible is again up to the individual, as is the decision of whether the magnitude of the difference is relevant or not.
Now discuss away for another ten pages.
01-07-16, 03:51 PM
#59
On Your Left
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Posts: 8,373
Bikes: Trek Emonda SLR, Sram eTap, Zipp 303
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3004 Post(s)
Liked 2,434 Times
in
1,187 Posts
Last year I switched from a Trek Madone 4 to a Emonda SLR. I went from 2700 miles to 4100 and my average speed increased 1.5mph.
So it must be the bike, i'm the same old fat guy and a year older.
So it must be the bike, i'm the same old fat guy and a year older.
01-07-16, 04:44 PM
#60
serious cyclist
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 21,147
Bikes: S1, R2, P2
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9334 Post(s)
Liked 3,679 Times
in
2,026 Posts
And both camera and lens (especially lens) have a huge effect on the picture you take. The typewriter (apparently this is a very old joke) doesn't.
Of course, expensive cameras and lenses won't make great pictures if you don't have skill, but they do have a lot more to do with the result than a typewriter does. Where a bicycle falls on that spectrum is up for discussion.
Of course, expensive cameras and lenses won't make great pictures if you don't have skill, but they do have a lot more to do with the result than a typewriter does. Where a bicycle falls on that spectrum is up for discussion.
01-07-16, 05:15 PM
#62
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 23,208
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18883 Post(s)
Liked 10,646 Times
in
6,054 Posts
And both camera and lens (especially lens) have a huge effect on the picture you take. The typewriter (apparently this is a very old joke) doesn't.
Of course, expensive cameras and lenses won't make great pictures if you don't have skill, but they do have a lot more to do with the result than a typewriter does. Where a bicycle falls on that spectrum is up for discussion.
Of course, expensive cameras and lenses won't make great pictures if you don't have skill, but they do have a lot more to do with the result than a typewriter does. Where a bicycle falls on that spectrum is up for discussion.
I personally believe a bike falls midway on the spectrum, certainly it matters some. That's why I have a Cervelo and not a GMC Denali.
01-07-16, 05:44 PM
#63
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 33,006
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene '04; Bridgestone RB-1 '92
Mentioned: 325 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11975 Post(s)
Liked 6,655 Times
in
3,486 Posts
What're you trying to say about my Denali? 
__________________
See, this is why we can't have nice things. - - smarkinson
Where else but the internet can a bunch of cyclists go and be the tough guy? - - jdon
01-07-16, 06:19 PM
#64
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,475
Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3375 Post(s)
Liked 371 Times
in
253 Posts
Pretty sure you didn't buy a sprint bike. Sprint bikes are built to withstand crashes and and 200 plus pound guys generating 2,600 watts. My sprint bike was built before the introduction of carbon frames on the velodrome. It weighs 19 lbs. Steel stem and bars. Mass start track frames, which is what you probably have, are similar to road bike frames.
01-07-16, 07:25 PM
#65
I eat carbide.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,627
Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 1,306 Times
in
560 Posts
...I've heard it brings all the boys to the yard.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels
01-07-16, 08:07 PM
#66
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,433
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 741 Post(s)
Liked 412 Times
in
230 Posts
Yeah, his bike is light. It is still over 15 lbs. It is closer to 16lbs.
The science of Olympic track bikes (Wired UK)
Look Cycle - L96 Speed - Frames - Track
This is a more common frame seen on the circuit than Chris Hoy's
The science of Olympic track bikes (Wired UK)
Look Cycle - L96 Speed - Frames - Track
This is a more common frame seen on the circuit than Chris Hoy's
Last edited by colnago62; 01-07-16 at 08:44 PM.
01-07-16, 08:30 PM
#67
Administrator
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Delaware shore
Posts: 13,558
Bikes: Cervelo C5, Guru Photon, Waterford, Specialized CX
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1106 Post(s)
Liked 2,180 Times
in
1,470 Posts
I said something similar once, adding that most people probably don't race on their bikes. Seems like common sense. But somebody pointed out that triathletes race their bikes, and there are vast numbers of them with season tickets and day passes. Presumably using them at least once in awhile. So I had to admit that there are more bike racers than I ever imagined, perhaps enough to even account for "most" of the racing bikes being ridden.
01-07-16, 08:32 PM
#68
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 8,922
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4717 Post(s)
Liked 1,882 Times
in
998 Posts
Yeah, his bike is light. It is still over 15 lbs. It is closer to 16lbs.
The science of Olympic track bikes (Wired UK)
The science of Olympic track bikes (Wired UK)
01-07-16, 09:35 PM
#70
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,475
Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3375 Post(s)
Liked 371 Times
in
253 Posts
Yeah, his bike is light. It is still over 15 lbs. It is closer to 16lbs.
The science of Olympic track bikes (Wired UK)
Look Cycle - L96 Speed - Frames - Track
This is a more common frame seen on the circuit than Chris Hoy's
The science of Olympic track bikes (Wired UK)
Look Cycle - L96 Speed - Frames - Track
This is a more common frame seen on the circuit than Chris Hoy's
01-07-16, 09:43 PM
#71
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,433
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 741 Post(s)
Liked 412 Times
in
230 Posts
That is very likely a true statement. Which again it goes back to knowing when equipment does, or doesn't matter for the individual choosing equipment. Most sprinters are looking for stiff and somewhat durable over just lightweight. Light, somewhat durable and stiff of course is even better. Most guys roll to the line with Magic front and rear of the same model.
Last edited by colnago62; 01-07-16 at 09:49 PM.
01-07-16, 09:51 PM
#72
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 10,475
Bikes: 1979 Raleigh Team 753
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3375 Post(s)
Liked 371 Times
in
253 Posts
Again, to the point of this thread. Most people that flock together have similar equipment. That can be group rides and that can be the many areas of racing. If your equipment is much different than those you are hanging with something is slightly out of order. Either you are much smarter than they are, or are at some sort of disadvantage. If there are not rules around your riding and you want to equalize things - just get a motor.
01-08-16, 06:31 AM
#73
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,492
Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE
Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7652 Post(s)
Liked 3,479 Times
in
1,836 Posts
The lighter weight, name-brand frame, higher-end groupset, whatever, might not make even a measurable difference in performance for most riders over most rides---but to the rider, the difference is Extremely meaningful.
My next build will have Ultegra. On an entire groupset I save, I think, 200 grams over 105. Less than eight ounces. Does that make a difference? Don't make me laugh. Not a performance difference, but a Huge satisfaction difference. A very, very meaningful difference.
The fact that I would probably cover the same route at the same rate on a GMC Denali----That makes no meaningful difference (Call it Denali denial.) I want Ultegra---Even if I get laughed at for spending the money for performance capabilities I am incapable of using.
To me it is meaningful.
Of course, SRAM Red is lighter and would make me Much faster---because it is red.
That's how you can tell I am not a "serious" rider---none of my bikes are red.
01-08-16, 07:55 AM
#75
On Your Left
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Posts: 8,373
Bikes: Trek Emonda SLR, Sram eTap, Zipp 303
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3004 Post(s)
Liked 2,434 Times
in
1,187 Posts
Then wouldn't I have a headwind on the way back 
Maybe I was more motivated after buying a new bike that increased my level of enjoyment. Maybe I was motivated to go to the gym over the winter instead of sitting on the couch. Maybe since i enjoyed riding more, i rode more.
The April after I bought the new bike had more miles and more calories burned than the previous August with the old bike.
Maybe I was more motivated after buying a new bike that increased my level of enjoyment. Maybe I was motivated to go to the gym over the winter instead of sitting on the couch. Maybe since i enjoyed riding more, i rode more.
The April after I bought the new bike had more miles and more calories burned than the previous August with the old bike.