Article: Known doper stealing your KOM's
12-01-16, 01:57 PM
#76
Blast from the Past
Hopefully Phil doesn't inadvertently take something over the counter that's banned. And I'm assuming that his bike will be >6.8 Kg. And of course his saddle is > 5cm behind his BB. And so on...
12-01-16, 02:02 PM
#77
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I get your point, but ironically he most likely is riding a bike that is in technical compliance because it's the same gear he just finished the season on, and he's still under WADA doping rules so he's not going to take any surprise OTC supplements.
12-01-16, 02:17 PM
#78
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So, would using an internal motor be cheating in strava-land but doping yourself isn't?
I saw a guy throw his garmin up a hill on a ride to snag the KOM...is that cheating?
I saw a guy throw his garmin up a hill on a ride to snag the KOM...is that cheating?
12-01-16, 02:19 PM
#79
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How far can a roadie throw a Garmin? A couple inches?
12-01-16, 02:34 PM
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12-01-16, 02:42 PM
#81
Blast from the Past
It strikes me as sort of an odd play on a humble brag. If you want to spend your time chasing KOM's just say so, it's OK. At least it sounds like he's having a little fun with it.
12-01-16, 02:59 PM
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Not that it matters because Strava. I think he is basically saying he's just chasing KOMs for shizz and giggles, he's only trying to be holier than thou over the Sassquatch guy because he's had a career-long grudge against blood dopers.
12-01-16, 03:04 PM
#83
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I'm surprised someone hasn't already flagged all of Thorfinn-Sassquatch's KOMs.
If you want some mild entertainment try reading his rider profile: https://www.strava.com/athletes/1799223
He spends most of the time listing the number of drug tests he has taken and passed and proudly claims to be drug free since joining Strava in 2012. He doesn't list the fact that he failed a drug test (use of Efaproxiral) in Sept 2011 when he won the Masters 30-34 National Road Championship which led to a 2 year ban. Nor does he mention he has received a life ban from USADA in July this year for selling EPO and human growth hormone to other athletes.
Nick Brandt-Sorenson Accepts Lifetime Ban | USADA
If you want some mild entertainment try reading his rider profile: https://www.strava.com/athletes/1799223
He spends most of the time listing the number of drug tests he has taken and passed and proudly claims to be drug free since joining Strava in 2012. He doesn't list the fact that he failed a drug test (use of Efaproxiral) in Sept 2011 when he won the Masters 30-34 National Road Championship which led to a 2 year ban. Nor does he mention he has received a life ban from USADA in July this year for selling EPO and human growth hormone to other athletes.
Nick Brandt-Sorenson Accepts Lifetime Ban | USADA
12-01-16, 03:17 PM
#84
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Maybe not "fair", but I don't think Strava makes the distinction of bike types. So as long a one is pedalling, it would be hard to complain.
12-01-16, 03:38 PM
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I'm surprised someone hasn't already flagged all of Thorfinn-Sassquatch's KOMs.
If you want some mild entertainment try reading his rider profile: https://www.strava.com/athletes/1799223
He spends most of the time listing the number of drug tests he has taken and passed and proudly claims to be drug free since joining Strava in 2012. He doesn't list the fact that he failed a drug test (use of Efaproxiral) in Sept 2011 when he won the Masters 30-34 National Road Championship which led to a 2 year ban. Nor does he mention he has received a life ban from USADA in July this year for selling EPO and human growth hormone to other athletes.
Nick Brandt-Sorenson Accepts Lifetime Ban | USADA
If you want some mild entertainment try reading his rider profile: https://www.strava.com/athletes/1799223
He spends most of the time listing the number of drug tests he has taken and passed and proudly claims to be drug free since joining Strava in 2012. He doesn't list the fact that he failed a drug test (use of Efaproxiral) in Sept 2011 when he won the Masters 30-34 National Road Championship which led to a 2 year ban. Nor does he mention he has received a life ban from USADA in July this year for selling EPO and human growth hormone to other athletes.
Nick Brandt-Sorenson Accepts Lifetime Ban | USADA
Granted it's all academic to me. My KOM's have been limited to segments I created that were either too silly for a strong rider to bother with, or including a left-turn light that you might hit right one time in hundreds.
12-01-16, 03:45 PM
#87
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Great article!
I've been following Phil on Strava since his Peel Diamond days (which, admittedly for me has only been about a year now) and this is one more thing to add to the multitudes of reasons why he's the most interesting and best follow of any cyclist on social media.
Real, funny, candid, I've been watching these rides show up on my Strava feed for a month. Awesome. Phil's Fondo is definitely my number one choice of Fondo's I'd like to complete here in the states.
I hope Phil stays involved in cycling in some aspect or another.
I've been following Phil on Strava since his Peel Diamond days (which, admittedly for me has only been about a year now) and this is one more thing to add to the multitudes of reasons why he's the most interesting and best follow of any cyclist on social media.
Real, funny, candid, I've been watching these rides show up on my Strava feed for a month. Awesome. Phil's Fondo is definitely my number one choice of Fondo's I'd like to complete here in the states.
I hope Phil stays involved in cycling in some aspect or another.
12-01-16, 04:00 PM
#88
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It is, and Strava acknowledges that. This is from the original article in the OP-
I reached out to Strava for comment, and this is the statement I received from the company’s co-founder and CEO Mark Gainey: “At Strava we strive to record accurate segment times and rely on our community to flag unsafe rides and mechanical cheating. We applaud those dedicated to fighting doping in sport. But we are not able to judge this very nuanced debate of who used PEDs, when and where they used them, and to fairly determine how that use improved times on one segment or another. Strava values sportsmanship and fair play, and we want members of our community to earn spots on the leaderboards through clean and safe competition.”
I reached out to Strava for comment, and this is the statement I received from the company’s co-founder and CEO Mark Gainey: “At Strava we strive to record accurate segment times and rely on our community to flag unsafe rides and mechanical cheating. We applaud those dedicated to fighting doping in sport. But we are not able to judge this very nuanced debate of who used PEDs, when and where they used them, and to fairly determine how that use improved times on one segment or another. Strava values sportsmanship and fair play, and we want members of our community to earn spots on the leaderboards through clean and safe competition.”
I wish my kid were flagged for "unsafe rides". I stopped my payed subscription for a year because they list downhill KOMs with segments that cross controlled intersections - and my kid was getting them. Kid also was penalized. I think he just turned the Garmin off after that.
12-01-16, 04:05 PM
#89
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All of his KOM's are probably his best selling point, so that's a really good motivation to take those away. But I don't see how it's immoral or unethical. Misguided sure, maybe even outright dumb, but if it's legal and a person chooses PED's knowing the risks, I don't begrudge him his performance. I'd think that draft-aided KOM's would be more shameful.
Granted it's all academic to me. My KOM's have been limited to segments I created that were either too silly for a strong rider to bother with, or including a left-turn light that you might hit right one time in hundreds.
Granted it's all academic to me. My KOM's have been limited to segments I created that were either too silly for a strong rider to bother with, or including a left-turn light that you might hit right one time in hundreds.
12-01-16, 04:17 PM
#91
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Yea, well - it could happen.
There are sites - SoCalSoccer where being a Sock Puppet is not illegal. I made two accounts - one as a referee and one as a parent (about 10 years ago). And I didn't quote myself.
I got post attacked when it came out and the mod came to my rescue that it was in fact, fine and appreciated I had read the terms of the site. I later (4 years ago) did the same on a cycling forum. Once to post about me - and another to post about my kid. It is a lot simpler than what I do here having to explain myself all the time. I didn't read the rules. I got banned for life.
Somehow that seemed similar to this thread topic.
There are sites - SoCalSoccer where being a Sock Puppet is not illegal. I made two accounts - one as a referee and one as a parent (about 10 years ago). And I didn't quote myself.
I got post attacked when it came out and the mod came to my rescue that it was in fact, fine and appreciated I had read the terms of the site. I later (4 years ago) did the same on a cycling forum. Once to post about me - and another to post about my kid. It is a lot simpler than what I do here having to explain myself all the time. I didn't read the rules. I got banned for life.
Somehow that seemed similar to this thread topic.
12-01-16, 05:08 PM
#93
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Now if you had an account called "MyGarmin" and it was about the Garmin and where it went - that would of course be fine, except the garmin being thrown up the hill would be like being slug up the hill by another power source - so still grey.
12-01-16, 05:51 PM
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After reading Phil's book, I'm sure he's not. The guy refused to use an asthma inhaler because he didn't feel he needed one.
12-01-16, 10:08 PM
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Did you notice he accused Horner of getting away with things?
This is the classic "if you can beat me you must be doping".
On a professional cycling level Phil has done very little. But he writes books and is into cookie dough I guess.
This is the classic "if you can beat me you must be doping".
On a professional cycling level Phil has done very little. But he writes books and is into cookie dough I guess.
12-03-16, 08:29 AM
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His palmares (or modesty therof) are beside the point. He may be silly now and then, but what matters is that he was a bona fide professional, in the best sense of the term. You should read the book, so you wouldn't have to guess. It's short, quick, and you might even like it.
12-03-16, 10:02 AM
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Hardly.
His palmares (or modesty therof) are beside the point. He may be silly now and then, but what matters is that he was a bona fide professional, in the best sense of the term. You should read the book, so you wouldn't have to guess. It's short, quick, and you might even like it.
His palmares (or modesty therof) are beside the point. He may be silly now and then, but what matters is that he was a bona fide professional, in the best sense of the term. You should read the book, so you wouldn't have to guess. It's short, quick, and you might even like it.
He is a pro that ranks out of the top 1,000, has one (UCI) pro win on record accusing the only USA non-caught-doping (just like him) GT winner in the last 25 years of getting away with things. And then says, as a rank 1,000+ pro he will take a KOM that you'd have to be a top 60 climber to do. Apparently he saw the irony there too.
The attitude that "we'll those other 1,000 must be doping" I picked up a couple years ago at local races, was shown again in the article. While I don't trust the system is good enough to ensure clean riding, I also think a pro should not enter a sport they cannot "lose" without blaming others for getting away with things.
The Strava part...
As to Palomar, Chris was on a GT stage length ride that day, the year he won, and Palomar happened to be in the middle of it. There is a local appreciation of top climbs up that mountain. Swami's race up the Palomar Mountain, April 2008 Lemond @ 49 min is the loosely accepted clean record pre-Strava. Tony Rominger was reported to do 49 start of training. A rumor of a Floyd Landis of 45 min. (Source - local hear-say and local Pete Penseyres)
So if Giamond breaks 51:21 he would get a Strava KOM, but I'd like to see someone break that 49 before posting it, just out of respect for the non-caught-doping pros that won races.
https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider.php?id=129882
Last edited by Doge; 12-03-16 at 10:07 AM.
12-03-16, 04:02 PM
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Why bother doping for KOM's, when you can probably program a bot to register fake rides?
Why race for KOMs when you know you're competing agains people who follow other rules?
I prefer my own situation, usually somewhere between 1/3 and 2/3 of the pack, the pack including people who stopped for lunch in the middle of the segment. Statistics help make my ranking more significant.
Why race for KOMs when you know you're competing agains people who follow other rules?
I prefer my own situation, usually somewhere between 1/3 and 2/3 of the pack, the pack including people who stopped for lunch in the middle of the segment. Statistics help make my ranking more significant.
12-03-16, 04:43 PM
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I can't give an opinion on the Phil/Horner thing because I don't know enough about it.
I do think Phil seems like a pretty nice guy, down to earth, easy to talk to...I've never met him, but I would have no issue walking up to him and saying, hello. Same with Ted King.
They may not be the best or even close to the best in the sport, but I still think they've helped push the sport forward.
I do think Phil seems like a pretty nice guy, down to earth, easy to talk to...I've never met him, but I would have no issue walking up to him and saying, hello. Same with Ted King.
They may not be the best or even close to the best in the sport, but I still think they've helped push the sport forward.
12-03-16, 05:18 PM
#100
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I can't give an opinion on the Phil/Horner thing because I don't know enough about it.
I do think Phil seems like a pretty nice guy, down to earth, easy to talk to...I've never met him, but I would have no issue walking up to him and saying, hello. Same with Ted King.
They may not be the best or even close to the best in the sport, but I still think they've helped push the sport forward.
I do think Phil seems like a pretty nice guy, down to earth, easy to talk to...I've never met him, but I would have no issue walking up to him and saying, hello. Same with Ted King.
They may not be the best or even close to the best in the sport, but I still think they've helped push the sport forward.