all are true, when improperly used.

BTW, I started binge-watching Twin Peaks yesterday. It aged well.

It's true to an extent. You have to pick your poison and deal with its downsides.

Unlike in real life. ;)

You can't go wrong with either. Both can be built up into awesome bikes. First figure out your buget. Do you want custom or stock sizing? How exclusive of a builder do you want? If you want off the shelf that's easy but if you want a handmade forever bike do your research. There are so many custom builders out there. Many builders offer both steel and Ti frames. Talk to them, tell them your riding style and see what they recomend. Where do you live? Maybe talk to some builders in your area. Don't rush and have fun figuring it out.

This is my custom Ti from 2001. Just took this pic a couple days ago. Bike hasn't been ridden in 5 years because I got back into racing but it's still a beautiful bike.

http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/z...psj5jzxku9.jpg

Yep. Those are the stereotypes, but I've owned frames of each material that were the opposite of the stereotype.

Hi-Mod carbon fiber is fragile, but my Pedal Force RS frame is anything but fragile.
Cannondale frames from the 80s were crazy stiff, but a Vitus 979 frame is a noodle...

I got my steel Waterford in 1992. For the last 14 years it is a weekend bike but kept year round in a shed 15 feet from the Cheaspeake Bay salt water. I ride it all along the water and get it gritty with sand at times. It has no rust, at least on the outside.

Stainless is a great choice. Easier with which to work, pretty much the corrosion resistance of Ti, strong, light. Maintenance consists of an occasional spray and wipe down with T9 and you're good.

J.

What is T9?

Stainless is great, but it seems even more expensive than Ti. Stainless is also a bit more high maintenance than Ti, as it's not 100% corrosion resistant.

Also, since the Stainless steel has such a high Ultimate Tensile Strength, it's usually drawn out to extremely thin-walled tubes, which makes them pretty easy to dent.

For these reasons, I do think Ti is a more practical choice of materials than high-end stainless steel.

953 is very tough stainless. Probably not much different to work than Ti.

Boeshield

Boeshield T-9® | Corrosion Protection and Waterproof Lubrication

It sprays on and has some wax like properties. Works great on stainless in marine applications, for example.

J.

I guess, at least around here, the Ti frames are more expensive than stainless ones yet they have very similar properties.

I have a bike that is stainless, weighs 16.3 lbs (roughly 57cm size frame) and I can assure you it is not easy to dent.

J.

Really? Ti bikes can be had for under $2000. There are Ti frames for around a grand. Can you point me at a stainless steel bike cheaper than that?

all things being equal.

All Ti Bikes are not equal to all other Ti bikes. Same goes for stainless.

J.

Well I have one of those Ti bikes for under 2K, and it has all those things the pricey brands have, and sometimes more. For starters how about shaped top and down tubes. Curved and shaped seat and chain stays. Very nice welds. Just doesnt have the name, for which I could give a %¦<%`. More expensive often does not mean better.

When I had a custom frame built last year, I spent a lot of time looking at available Ti frames and custom frame builders in steel, TI and Stainless. Maybe it's my engineering background that makes me obsess about thsi stuff or something but what found was that, in general, I could get a lot more frame for less money in stainless than I could in Ti for a given set of requirements and workmanship. YMMV and I'm glad you're happy with your bike.

J.

okay, but please direct us to a low cost stainless bike. I can'tell find one.

Why? This whole thing started off with Moots being one of the choices as far as Ti goes.

Are we now looking for all budget metal frames?

J.

To prove that they exist

And really none of those are accurate

Ain't gonna happen. Stainless is available in very few stock bicycles, mostly custom. Ti is mostly an off-the-shelf item and some custom too. Hence, the price range of Ti is much wider than stainless and penetrates much further down on the low side.

Though didn't Soma have a stainless bike? Or someone like that? I think there was a problem of inadequate supply...or am I imagining all that.

You said "Ti frames are more expensive than stainless ones". That's a very different from an assertion about quality, and I'm not sure I believe it is true.

EDIT: OK reading your post you seem to be saying that a survey of local framebuilders revealed that you could get a Stainless frame built cheaper than a Ti frame, or at least you got "more for your money" for stainless, whatever that means.

Soma Triple Cross was Stainless steel and cost $2000 for the frame.

I'm not trying to suggest that my less expensive bike is better than a custom built for you frame, that expensive never buys you anything. Going custom, I certainly would not buy from overseas. But I am saying that the attitude of many that it cost less, or imported from Asia, therefore it must be inferior is often simply not the case. The same attitude prevailed with Toyota and other Japanese car makers in the 70's, Sony, Taiwan built Al bike frames etc. The list goes on and on.

My Ti frame was built in Taiwan and compares very favorable to US standard built Ti frames at a fraction of the cost. The bike I bought would have been 3.5-6 times more expensive for nearly comparable bike from one of the US Ti builders without nearly as much tube shaping as the Taiwanese frame etc. Would have loved to have bought US made, but literally multiple thousands of dollars difference in price :eek:

Side note. I love the ideal of a Stainless Steel bike. I have not seen one to my knowledge, and would love to ride one for a couple of weeks for comparison. :thumb:

I don't know about the Triple-Cross, but SOMA produced a stainless steel version of the Smoothie a couple of years ago. It was fillet brazed KVA MS2 and sold for $2,000.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7...ps0e1b28d6.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7...ps3159bfa5.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7...ps6a029dc6.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7...ps0c079a55.jpg

EDIT - Here's the KVA MS2 fillet brazed Triple-Cross.

http://cx.cxmagazine.com/wp-content/...oss-2-e_11.jpg