Are there any internet mail-order sources for individual aluminum frames that would correspond to the Chinese unbranded carbon frames like Workswell, Deng-fu and Hong-fu? Not knock offs of famous bikes, but unlabeled aluminum frames that would compete well with the best of the big name ones like CAAD 10 and 12, Trek ALR, etc. So we are talking about very light, stiff, but comfortable and very roadworthy/competent.

Oh, and don't forget cheap.

Nashbar has a nice looking aluminum frame but it doesn't come with the extras like a Chinese direct frame would. No fork, seat post, headset or bottom bracket.

I saw some at that alibaba website.

From what I understand making a really nice hydroformed alloy frames is more complicated and more expensive then carbon so i don't think there would be much money in it for these Chinese companies unless they were selling frames for the same price as carbon which probably doesn't make sense.

Planet X has a frameset for around $200 that looks ok

Planet X RT-58 Alloy Road Frameset | Planet X

You can get a Bowman or Kinesis Aithein for around $550-600 if you want something that is maybe better quality. And you can usually find used CAAD9 and CAAD10 on ebay for $250-350

I'd also consider a CAAD from eBay or Craigslist. They are very nice and the people who buy them are always upgrading to carbon fiber.

It's the carbon fiber that makes those Chinese brands possible. They need a fridge full of prepreg, a little autoclave, and a mold. A factory or factories for making aluminum bikes has a lot more expensive and powerful equipment. The tubes need to be shaped and heat treated and robot welded. And so I don't think you will see a Chiner equivalent to a CAAD that is unbranded. There are certainly plenty of inexpensive aluminum frames that are not quite so high-end, though. Nashbar has a few, and Bike Island sometimes has unbranded frames that are the same as their Motobecane/Gravity/Mercier/whatever.

Like this one (FGSS) https://bikeisland.com/cgi-bin/BKTK_S...ls&ProdID=2858

or like this one (CX) BikeIsland.com - Bicycle Parts, Accessories and Clothing at Affordable Prices with Free Shipping

Thanks guys. The Nashbar offering is too heavy and clunky for my purposes. Looking for a top line offering.

Aruminum..?

Have you considered an ALR? I know it's not within the scope of your OP, just wondering.

That is a different search. Sure I am considering an ALR, but that is in the realm of new or used brand name. This thread is about the no name substitutes.

What are you trying to build? I've been looking for some ALU frames but honestly it has been hard to justify the price tags. its been such a close call with the carbon frames that you mentioned that I've been having a thought time justifying it.
Also in that frame price range, let's say 4-500, the frame ends up accounting for only 20-25% of the bike price so I feel it makes more sense to spend 100 more on the frame and go with a full carbon build.
I've been considering the HF-FM079-F for a disc brake build.

I personally would not do business directly with a company based in China, should the order get lost, or the product is defective in some manner they could ream you bad because they do not have to abide by any American or Western law, no lawyer can help you, the Better Business Bureau can't help you, you're completely on you own and at their mercy.

There was a guy, I think on this forum, about 3 or 4 years ago bought a titanium bike frame direct from a supposedly well known Chinese company, the head tube came out ovalized and the fork would not fit, the Chinese company said he must have damaged the frame but send it back and they'll look at...he never got the frame back, never got back any money either, so the amount of money he spent for the bike and shipping it back he could have gotten a TI bike from a Western supplier and been good to go. It's one thing to deal with a Western Supplier who deals with a Chinese company because no matter what you'll get taken care of, but trying to work directly with the Chinese not so much. Of course some people have had very good luck buying direct from China but those that have problems with the product most of them get screwed.

you don't do business directly, you use ebay, Amazon or paypal. These entities have a buyers protection program.

You may have missed rpenmanparker's many other threads about his Chinese road bike.

Not the greatest tone

There are some here and on other forums that have done business directly with the Chinese companies. I don't think E-bay or Paypal will protect you if you have a warranty issue 8 months down the road. Amazon would probably tell you to send it back to Amazon and they'll take care of the problem for you. Paypal and EBay only protect you if the product is not received, and if the product is significantly not as described...not sure what they're meaning to significantly would be, but that's it, they'll do nothing for warranty issues that are not getting handled.

Well, it is a very very small risk that I would be willing to accept. There is a reason on why manufacturers offer lifetime warranties on frames, it is because the probability of a defective frame is insignificant. Unless you crash, but then most manufacturers only offer a discounted replacement.
When you consider the $2000+ price tag on a carbon frameset vs $500 from china, things would have to go wrong many times before you are at loss.

"There was a guy, I think on thus forum, about 3 or 4 years ago? " Lolzzz.............
This is, quantifiable, the worst information anyone will ever get on these forums.

David Chang Wants To Fuku You Up | Fast Company | Business + Innovation

"It’s also typically irreverent; the sandwich comes wrapped in foil that’s stamped with the word dericious. ("We know that could be offensive to some people," says Chang, who likes to poke at Asian-food stereotypes. "But it’s literally how my mom says it.")"

PC is so over-rated...

There are a bunch of what look like factory seconds but new cheap aluminum frames and framesets on ebay right now. Some in raw aluminum, so I'm guessing QC fails or something. Some are heavy but some not so bad.

That Planet X looks like a nice choice for an inexpensive aluminum frame that is probably nice raceable quality. I know there have been a few other small retailers selling similar but their names escape me right now.

Cheap and China is a fool's errand that will lead to tears.

Please return 80% of your household items before you start crying....

please enlighten us

Not so far. That Workswell -066 is top notch.

Yeah, rpenmanparker and rms13 have been riding their sub-$2000 sub-15-lb Chinese carbons bike towards those tears for several months now, and still haven't got there .... so I guess trying to get to "tears" is indeed a fool's errand.

Only tears of joy for me when I think about how much money I saved