Tire question
#1
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From: Apex, NC
Bikes: 2007 Iron Horse Victory 3.0, 2001 Raleigh SC40, 2011Fuji Newest 2.0, 1984 Lotus Challenger,1989 Schwinn World Sport,1973 Motobecane Grand Touring,1970 Schwinn Varsity,1991Paramount series 3
Tire question
I have heard a few times on GCN that 25 mm tires roll faster than 23s and 28 mm tires roll faster than 25s. How is this possible? I would think that a larger contact patch would produce more friction thereby slowing things down a bit. I must be missing something. Can someone explain this?
#2
Where the rubber meets the road: What makes cycling tires fast? - VeloNews.com
Scroll down to "Wider tires are faster" section, near the bottom of the page.
Scroll down to "Wider tires are faster" section, near the bottom of the page.
#3
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From: Seattle
I have heard a few times on GCN that 25 mm tires roll faster than 23s and 28 mm tires roll faster than 25s. How is this possible? I would think that a larger contact patch would produce more friction thereby slowing things down a bit. I must be missing something. Can someone explain this?
1-Ideally, the rubber of the contact patch isn't actually sliding against the ground, it's sitting statically on the ground.
2-Even if it was sliding on the ground, friction tends to increase with larger total forces, not larger contact regions.
Wider tires deform in a shorter, rounder, smoother region at the ground contact; as a result, less energy is wasted deforming the tire walls as the tire rolls and as it deforms from bumps.
Also, as you get toward bumpier and bumpier surfaces, lower PSI is important for low rolling resistance. Much better to absorb the bumps with tire deformation than let them transmit higher up, jostling the bike and rider around! And wide tires are able to handle lower PSI.
#4
A large contact patch doesn't increase friction for two reasons:
1-Ideally, the rubber of the contact patch isn't actually sliding against the ground, it's sitting statically on the ground.
2-Even if it was sliding on the ground, friction tends to increase with larger total forces, not larger contact regions.
Wider tires deform in a shorter, rounder, smoother region at the ground contact; as a result, less energy is wasted deforming the tire walls as the tire rolls and as it deforms from bumps.
Also, as you get toward bumpier and bumpier surfaces, lower PSI is important for low rolling resistance. Much better to absorb the bumps with tire deformation than let them transmit higher up, jostling the bike and rider around! And wide tires are able to handle lower PSI.
1-Ideally, the rubber of the contact patch isn't actually sliding against the ground, it's sitting statically on the ground.
2-Even if it was sliding on the ground, friction tends to increase with larger total forces, not larger contact regions.
Wider tires deform in a shorter, rounder, smoother region at the ground contact; as a result, less energy is wasted deforming the tire walls as the tire rolls and as it deforms from bumps.
Also, as you get toward bumpier and bumpier surfaces, lower PSI is important for low rolling resistance. Much better to absorb the bumps with tire deformation than let them transmit higher up, jostling the bike and rider around! And wide tires are able to handle lower PSI.
#5
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From: Long Beach
Bikes: Fitz randonneuse, Trek Superfly/AL, Tsunami SS, Bacchetta, HPV Speed Machine, Rans Screamer
Often repeated but this part is not correct. With decent tires, differences in Hysteresis losses due to contact patch shape are not nearly so significant as people think, but this is not my point.
Even running equal pressure, the wider tire has almost the same length contact patch. But you run a wider tire at lower pressure (or else you loose most benefit), in which case the length of the contact patch is significantly longer. The tire casing flexes more, but real world testing indicates this is not a significant factor.
Smooth steel drum tests with contemporary performance tires say there is slightly more resistance with wider tires, but textured drums (tread plate) and real world tests say wider tires are clearly faster in terms of complete system rolling resistance.
Even running equal pressure, the wider tire has almost the same length contact patch. But you run a wider tire at lower pressure (or else you loose most benefit), in which case the length of the contact patch is significantly longer. The tire casing flexes more, but real world testing indicates this is not a significant factor.
Smooth steel drum tests with contemporary performance tires say there is slightly more resistance with wider tires, but textured drums (tread plate) and real world tests say wider tires are clearly faster in terms of complete system rolling resistance.
#6
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From: Seattle
Ah, so it's almost entirely in the transmission of dynamic factors. Interesting.
#7
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From: Bay Area, Calif.
A large contact patch doesn't increase friction for two reasons:
1-Ideally, the rubber of the contact patch isn't actually sliding against the ground, it's sitting statically on the ground.
2-Even if it was sliding on the ground, friction tends to increase with larger total forces, not larger contact regions.
1-Ideally, the rubber of the contact patch isn't actually sliding against the ground, it's sitting statically on the ground.
2-Even if it was sliding on the ground, friction tends to increase with larger total forces, not larger contact regions.
Energy, or 'work', is equal to the applied force times the distance over which it acts. In the case of a tire on the road the energy lost to friction is equal to the frictional force times the movement of the tread in contact with the road relative to the road surface. We want the static friction to be high enough so there is essentially no relative motion of the tread vs. the road; i.e. no slipping of the tire and therefore essentially no energy loss.
#8
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From: Denver area (Ken Caryl Valley)
Bikes: 2022 Moots RCS, 2014 BMC SLR01 DA Mech, 2020 Santa Cruz Stigmata, Ibis Ripmo, Trek Top Fuel, Specialized Epic Pro, Pivot Les Fat
Overinflated tires are problematic but I find no difference between 23 vs 25 on flats or rolling ground. There is a slight weight penalty on long climbs, which I can feel after a few hours but nothing that drags me down much...timing is a bit slower for me. I don't use 28s so can't comment on the diff with those. Fast downhills are more confident on 25s and 25s can be inflated slightly lower, which makes them more comfortable. I'm going to use 25s on the Roubaix and 23s on the Tarmac. I currently have the same 25s on both.
#10
There isn't a huge night and day difference on smooth pavement. Rough surfaces require larger tires, larger tires require less pressure, less thought about route selection and are less prone to pinch flats. 23mm tires will force you to be more careful about the line you take, possibly making for a faster ride.
#11
Advocatus Diaboli

Joined: Feb 2015
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From: Wherever I am
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#12
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From: Middletown NY
Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix EVO w Hi-Mod frame, Raleigh Tamland 1 and Giant Anthem X
I have no idea about the rolling dynamics of a 25 or even 28 over a 23, but my hands and butt tell me the ride is smoother and therefore I can go faster and longer. A quality tire of 28mm inflated to 90 lbs is perfect for me.
#13
Here's the deal...
The [same tire] 28 inflated to the same pressure as a 25 has lower rolling resistance. The same thing with a 25 vs a 23. The thing is, however, most people might run a 28 at 90 PSI and a 23 at 110 PSI.
Also, the 28 will have more aerodynamic drag than a 23...obviously.
Just ride what you're comfortable with in the end. 23-28 is the range, I think 25 is the happy medium, and it just so happens that's what's on my road bike.
The [same tire] 28 inflated to the same pressure as a 25 has lower rolling resistance. The same thing with a 25 vs a 23. The thing is, however, most people might run a 28 at 90 PSI and a 23 at 110 PSI.
Also, the 28 will have more aerodynamic drag than a 23...obviously.
Just ride what you're comfortable with in the end. 23-28 is the range, I think 25 is the happy medium, and it just so happens that's what's on my road bike.
#15
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From: Denver area (Ken Caryl Valley)
Bikes: 2022 Moots RCS, 2014 BMC SLR01 DA Mech, 2020 Santa Cruz Stigmata, Ibis Ripmo, Trek Top Fuel, Specialized Epic Pro, Pivot Les Fat
#16
Mostly harmless ™
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,463
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From: Novi Sad
Bikes: Heavy, with friction shifters
Bad. Occasional pothole when returning home on a rainy night could ruin my day. Not worth the risk - especially since I'm not racing. 28mm quality tire (gp 4000, or 4 seasons) is very quick and light, not much penalty, just the comfort/safety bonuses.
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