INPD, I'm really curious as to how you arrived at the less than 19 lb. figure for your Breezer. Based on your build, my Breezer should be significantly lighter than yours, and I don't think mine weighs less than 20 lbs (though I wish it did).

My wheels come in at about 1/2 lb. lighter than yours and my seat tube is probably 4-5 oz lighter than yours. Call everything else a wash for now (identical groupsets) and my bike should be almost a pound lighter than yours. Using my not-very-accurate luggage scale my Breezer clocks in at over 21 lbs. Say my scale reads heavy by a pound and I'm at 20 lbs or so. My CAAD 10 is probably 3 lbs lighter than my Breezer, and I don't think it's under 17 lbs.

Back on topic, on flats and false flats I'm probably just as fast on my Breezer. I feel noticeably stronger when climbing steeper grades on my CAAD 10.

I will not deny that I'm more smarter [sic], witty, charming and just plain debonair on the Breezer. That is just plain fact.

Now you have me considering building a Breezer. I want to be more smarter.

What do guys have? Lead lining in the seat tube? My old Reynolds 531 bike is under 17 lb and that is with a 2,550 g frame and fork.

Here is my build as weighed before assembly. Both my luggage scale and a LBS Park scale put it under 19 pounds. What's odd is that Breezer list the Frameset as 6.25 pounds but mine is 5.75 pounds. I'm guessing 6.25 pounds was the original 2012 model.

Item Pounds
Frameset (includes fork and stem) 5.75
5800-Grupo 5.37
Saddle 0.550660793
SeatPost 0.550660793
Wheelset 3.854625551
Pedals 0.550660793
Bottle cage 0.176211454
Handle bars 0.660792952
Tires 1.013215859
Tubes 0.220264317

Total 18.69709251

I live on a pancake so no climbing involved in my comparisons.

Didn't read whole thread, so forgive me if I'm rehashing what someone else may have said.....

A 2 pound difference between bikes does not equate to a 2.5MPH difference. In fact there are few things (or combinations of things) about any two road bikes with only a 2 lb. difference in weight that could make such a difference. (A 12 lb. difference and knobby/soft tires, MAYBE!)

I'd say the difference is you.

I know that there have been plenty of times that I've clocked a 2.5 MPH difference on the very SAME bike (I only have one now), on the same route (no traffic lights...rural roads), and under the same weather/wind conditions. Sometimes it's a physical thing; sometimes it's a psychological thing. -For instance, I suck at climbing- but for some reason, I actually found it easier when I had a standard crank, as opposed to the compact crank I have now. There's no physical explanation for that, other than that I must be bat-feces crazy!

Our bodies are not machines, and couple that to the fact that they are controlled by something which is not a computer, means that we can be unpredictable, and things aren't always what they seem (que: Twilight Zone music)

That is some sophisticated scale you must be using. Accurate to the nanogram!

with, or without wheels

recent production mid-sized de rosa neo primato (columbus sl/slx iirc)
full chorus 11sp carbon group, compact rings, campag cables
kmc x11sl chain
mid 80s chorus titanium seatpost, uncut
<100g unpadded carbon saddle
100mm custom titanium stem
itm 7075g 40mm bars
50mm carbon clinchers on dt240s hubs, 1530g w skewers, no rim tape needed
25mm schwalbe tubeless w/ 40g sealant
carbon pedals (230g for pair)

~8.4kg with garmin mount and weigh-nothing carbon cages.
by deduction frame and fork about 2.8kg

could maybe get below 8.0kg if i swap to tubular and carbon cockpit and post, a but kill my aesthetics...the chase for that last 400g is difficult

With.

Kitchen scales that measures in grams but i converted to pounds.

Yes, but you can't fabricate significant figures that don't really exist. If the scale reads 28 g, that is 1.0 ounces, not 1.0000000 ounces. You don't let the calculator trick you.

has anyone mentioned yet: the tires on the BD Dawes. Also "feels just as fast" sometimes means higher pressure than optimal, which transmits more high frequency vibrations giving the impression of speed. I suggest letting some of the air out and trying again, and then swapping tires completely.

Yeah, I've wondered about INPD's bike weight, too. My M/L (54cm ST) sits on the scale, ready to ride with pedals (Mavic Race SL Ti 226g), 2 cages (Lezyne Carbon Cage 35g ea.) and Garmin GSC10 spd/cad sensor (25g), Barfly Garmin mount (19g), and a little plastic seat rail connector for a Scicon bag, at 18.79lbs.

My carbon Athena groupset is 4.79lb vs. 105 5800 at 5.5 (-322g)
My Argent wheelset is 1372g vs. 1746g (-374g)
My FSA SLK carbon post is 222g vs. 246g (-24g)
My Pro One 23c tires are 235g ea., plus 20oz sealant ea, so call it 500g vs. 557g (-57g)
My 3T Ergonova Pro 44cm bars are 272gm vs. 299g (-27g)
My SMP Dynamic is 265g vs. 249g (+16g)
My pedals Mavic SL Ti 226g vs 249g (-23g)

I also have 78gm worth of Lizardskins DSP 3.2 tape on there and a light KMC X11 SL chain at something less than 243gm (since I took out a few links). I've weighed the stock 100mm stem (with Ti bolts) at 115gm.

Now, I've never weighed my frameset, but looking at those numbers, mine should be in the area of 811g lighter, or 1.78lbs (if they're the same 54 ST size frame).

I suppose it could be that mine is MY'12, but we don't have any reason to think the frame is different in any way other than paint scheme, so either INPD's frame is smaller, or one of our scales are off (though I used published weights for everything except the total bike weight and stem). Bicycle Times mag weighed a MY'12 in the 54 ST size with Ultegra 6700 (5.15lbs, and lighter than 105 5800) at 20.05lbs, which lines up much better with my bike weight given the lighter components.

Oh no, it's devolved into weight-wienerism!

The Ideal Test Environment for measuring the actual performance advantage/dis-advantage of various bicycle hardware is the Multi-Use-Path.

Perfectly designed for the highest effort time trials with an ideal random mix of dog-walkers, joggers, baby strollers and the homeless A/B hardware comparisons can be easily performed with repeatable results and complete confidence.

Facts are Facts in the Caldron of Truth that is the MUP.

-Bandera

We've all been trolled, and we don't even realize it. Well played, sir.

Well, there hasn't been a Venturi thread in some time, which is weird...

Everything comes back to the Venturi (Praise be to God)!

I should have mentioned how I measured the bike. I measured it the standard way manufacturers do which is sans pedals (I know I listed them by mistake), sans bottle cage, pump, computers all that extra stuff.

I think there are possible a few other differences. The frameset (including frame, forks, headset and stem, essentially everything in the box) comes in at 5.75 pounds. Mine is definitely not MY'12 since the lettering is different. Perhaps its something else like the fork not the frame causing the difference?

I never actually weighted the 5800 groupset parts separately I got the total number from this website 2015 Road Groupset Weights - The Bike Lane so that part maybe over-stated.

So, are you asserting that the superior performance of the Venturi machine is due to Divine Intervention?

No wonder I never won a TT.......sandbagged by the effin' Almighty w/ his (not Her) ability to control aerodynamics to suit the Faithful vs. us Unbelievers instead of my inability to produce sufficient Watts over time.

As a highly active "Sinner" with a well developed Endurance in a wide variety of Sin how can my cycling performance due to a serious excess of Unbelieving be offset by purchasing new and more Blessed hardware?

Should my training/sinning ratio be revised or does an abject abasement to the Divine improve my "results" on the MUP?

-Bandera

It's starting to make more sense to me. Personally, I think weight of a particular bike should be stated as ready to ride. A bike can be ridden without bottle cages, computers & mounts, and saddle bags, but a bike can't be ridden without pedals. My pedals (5800) are advertised at 285 gm (10 oz.) That's significant.

Called it.

DSFDF

I like to compare my bikes to other bikes which are generally listed by manufacturers and reviewers without all that stuff. I can always add the weight of my ready-to-ride add ons (0.75 lb) to those standard weights.

We're both working with the same limitations in regards to weighing stuff. If I back out the "bits" (i.e. pedals, cages, mounts, sensors), that puts mine at 18lbs on the nose.

It would be easy/inexpensive to spec lighter bar tape and saddle, and probably seat post, too, in order to shave around 90gm and go 17.9 or so.

Anyway, if ours are the same size, and the estimated 1.7lbs variance in spec is not there, then yeah, we have to look at frameset differences. Seems unlikely, but it's possible.

^This I believe is the answer. IMO it's not possible to have such a large difference in mph with such minor differences in the bikes involved, no matter how the figures are tossed around and calculations are made. I've had large differences in mph myself on the same bike many times, and I always chalk it up to differences in how I feel that day.

I remember when I still had my BD bike, which was 5 lbs. heavier than the Klein which I still have- . I'd often turn in the exact same times on a ride as I did/do on the Klein. Actual performance differences between bikes are so subtle (unless we are counting mere seconds) that our physiology and psychology make a far bigger difference. Sometimes just thinking that a bike is "slower" will make us slower on that bike; or knowing that a bike weighs more than another will make it "feel heavier"- but if it were possible to do a blind comparison, in reality, we wouldn't even notice the difference in a few pounds, or a few millimeters in tire width, etc. But when our brains tell us "what should be", we often self-fulfill the prophecy.

The best solution, is not to weigh your bikes; and idealy, to ditch the bike computer. (I haven't gone as far as the latter, yet...)

I remember when I had my Venge- it "felt" really fast- but my times on it were always within the same range as what I'd do on the BD or the Klein- and we're talking at that point, a range in bike weights from 17-24 lbs.!

I don't know about that - my BD Dawes is a single speed but gearing is not really a factor on one of my commute routes. I'm about 2 mph faster on my Nashbar road bike.

Same tires, the Dawes is five pounds heavier (maybe more). Position is different. The Dawes is definitely slower, and it's almost certainly the bike.