1. Wind stop: need to prevent air particles coming in
2. Sweat evaporation: need to allow moisture particles going out


How could you achieve both using one fabric? The fabric has to be permeable only in one direction. I'm thinking about very expensive membrane with super high maintenance cost in water treatment.


BTW, Gortex has been used extensively in air treatment. Forming a moisture layer inside (the foul air emissions side) and allow the moisture to remove pollutants is the beauty of the fabric, for air pollution treatment purposes.
https://www.gore.com/products/gore-r...aste-treatment

My low-tech solution as a cyclist is just to leave zipper slightly/wide open while long climbing or sprinting, to prevent moisture from accumulating. Some wind stoppers also have built in vent.

Thank you for this description.

How old is this jacket? When did you get it?

Pretty sure I got it winter of 2013.

Thanks again. Really appreciate it.

--

I'd be interested to hear experiences on moisture management from anyone else who uses the current generation of Windstopper garments.


-Tim-

I own the Poggio jacket, which they no longer produce, and the Transparente jersey in it's previous iteration (ver. 2). Both have Windstopper X-lite on the front; the Poggio also has it on the back whereas the Transparente has a more breathable 'warmer' fabric on the back.

More than once while reading your posts I've thought to recommend the Transparente because it's a favorite of mine for dry, cool-cold conditions (at least Tucson cold, which means 40-50ish) and harder rides, where the breathable material on the back makes it pretty much perfect. I didn't chime in because they have revised it this year and I have no experience with the new version (ver. 3).

https://www.castelli-cycling.com/Pro...Z/p/451552516A

+1

If your over dressed you're going to sweat. There ain't no fabric or expensive jacket that can fix sweating.

If the first few minute when starting out for a cold weather ride... if you're not uncomfortably cool... you are likely over dressed. In the winter... I attach a rack and trunk bag. That way I can feel safe with my selection of clothing as I can always add/store something in the truck bag.

Most (not all) cycling jackets are designed to vent out rear pocket.... that is why the pocket is made of mesh. Unzip the front of the jacket enough to vent air over the body through the jacket... out the rear pocket.

My experience with garments with windblock on the front and vented/breathable fabric on the back has been excellent. As you said, "pretty much perfect."

Addressing lower temperature rides, below freezing, is really the goal of this whole exercise. If full Gore Windstopper was a viable alternative, which I'm not convinced it is, then it would be another tool in the toolbox.

Thanks again Bob. Really appreciate your on-topic feedback.


-Tim-

I could use some advice.

I'm leaving tomorrow for the Methow, going to spend most of a week Nordic skiing. It's a lot like road cycling, very high output aerobic activity.

I just broke the zipper on my Arc'teryx Accelero wind breaker. I've had it 7 years apparently, otherwise it looks like the day I bought it. This is exactly the right jacket to wear skiing. If I wear my GTX Pro Shell I'll overheat. If I just wear my base layer, the wind will be too much. Accelero jacket is just right. I have a spare but don't want to use it under a pack. And I don't think I can get it fixed tonight.

Is Gore One going to breathe well enough for XC skiing? And will it hold up well enough on the trail and when I crash? Finally is it as weatherproof as Pro Shell, can you take it backpacking? I don't bring my Accelero jacket backpacking most trips because it's not the right thing to have if I get caught in a bad storm. (We got hailed on this summer in Horseshoe Basin.)

I've heard great things about the Squamish hoodie. Given that I already have a Pro Shell jacket, am I better off with another wind breaker?

Exactly the approach that works best for me except you can dress to be cold for the first mile of your ride, but have a cup of hot coffee, tea, chocolate, or whatever right before you leave, and not be chilled at the start. A toasty drink will warm you from the inside for about five minutes, which is about as long as it takes for the exercise to take over.

I perspire just looking at the bike and the idea of riding without perspiration is foreign to me. Pit zips and pocket vents just don't cut it.

I need something that moves lots of moisture, hence the question about Windstopper and moisture management. That's the whole point of starting this thread, to see if there has been an improvement over the last few years in Windstopper's ability to move moisture away from the body.


-Tim-

If you are riding in dry conditions, you might not need a full shell.

What works for me in those conditions is a jacket that has windproof (Goretex Windstopper) in the front to block the wind and fabric in the rear.

Maybe... unlike myself... you don't need a windbreak?

I don't know about the temperatures you ride in, the winds in your area, your health, or age. If my old joints get chilled they ache (I am old and arthritic). But if it isn't raining... a windbreak might not be something you actually need. Maybe an Underarmor-type base layer and a pull-over wool sweater is all you need. Don't forget even moist wool still traps warmth.

I have several rain jackets, some specific for cycling and others not. By far, the most effective one is the Showers Pass Elite 2.1, which is made with eVent and Elite breathable fabrics. It is far more effective than my Goretex or Craft rain jackets. That is partly due to the fabric, but perhaps more importantly also because of its venting options. The SP jacket has large pit zips and back vents, plus you can open or shut the cuffs to any diameter with Velcro straps. Like any rain jacket I have tried, it is too warm for summer use, but I can cycle comfortable in it up until about 60 F (depending on my level of exertion). It is also my most effective winter jacket, whether it's raining or dry out. It is roomy enough that I can wear several bases layers under it if needed, but most of the time I am warm enough with just one long-sleeve base. I rode to work today in 20-degree temps and was perfectly warm (but not sweaty) wearing a thin poly base and a thicker wool long-sleeve pullover under the jacket.

Another disclaimer here. I haven't tested Windstopper stuff for a number of years so my information may well be very stale. I have not liked what I tested and owned myself. I found it way too easy to swamp out and thought it was useful only in a narrow range of conditions and at lower effort levels. I'm not a fan of Windstopper for high output activities.

The Gore One is light years better. Note that you have to use it with a base layer or you'll get sweaty and have your body heat conducted out through the thin membrane. Knowing what to expect is tough because there are so many variables that you need to adjust for.


This is absolutely true. For example, you need to have the right clothing under your jacket for it to perform properly. What the right clothing is depends on a wide variety of factors relating to you, conditions, and what you're doing.


People tend to focus on rain, but perspiration is the bigger enemy most of the time. Keep in mind that there is a limit to every fabric (and the air itself) to transmit/evaporate perspiration. For an extreme example, it is possible to work hard enough for sweat not to evaporate away in below freezing temperatures even if you're wearing nothing at all.

So you can use layering, vents, zippers, shooting air up your arms, changing effort levels, and other techniques to keep things balanced.

It definitely breathes well enough for XC skiing -- or at least way better than anything you've used. However, what they've made is really set up for cycling and running. It's not going to survive a hard crash and you'll probably tear it up if you do much bushwacking. I would not recommend even carrying the sort of daypack a lot of XC skiers take with it.

It is not nearly as weatherproof as Pro Shell. Pro Shell is awesome for extreme conditions. High winds with lots of stuff flying in the air, super cold temps, you name it. The Gore One is not the jacket for that kind of stuff.

I'm not supposed to talk about the stuff I do/see, but what I believe companies are aware that there is real demand for lighter weight breathable/waterproof garments that would be well suited for backpacking or backcountry skiing and I'm hopeful some good stuff will appear on the market in not that long.

If I had your specific problem, I'd put the Pro Shell in the backpack just in case you run into real weather and wear a windbreaker -- this sounds like it really has the properties you need. If you don't want to get another windbreaker you might consider donning a synthetic mid weight base layer over the other stuff you're wearing (light base plus merino?). I find synthetic more wind resistant than merino and it resists abrasion well. If/When that combo proves inadequate, you can break out your Pro Shell.

I think this is the main thing. For this reason, I've found it best for me to just have consistent rides on the really cold days. Be it consistently somewhat hard or easy - but consistent. That way I can dress/layer/vent in a manner to be comfortable. I don't like doing really hard efforts/intervals b/c no matter what I'm going to sweat enough to saturate some of the gear & likely be pretty cold during the recovery.

Gore Tex cannot allow the amount of moisture generated during vigorous cycling to pass through. My PI windshell trapped too much moisture. I've been riding in the winter for almost 40 years and when I switched to 3SP shirts from Sporthill I stopped having moisture buildup problems. The fabric allows some air flow and is quite warm without trapping moisture. On short rides moisture buildup is not a problem, but if you are out for a long ride it can be borderline dangerous. There are people who sweat more than others, so there is no single solution. The comparison to XC skiing is spot on. Sportthill just happens to be quite popular with XC skiers.

I would be another who says that gore-tex does what it's supposed to.
However....
It is meant to keep water (rain!) out, while still letting some sweat vapor out. You only really need that in cold+rainy circumstances.

For a lot of cold-weather bicycle riding, you don't need full gore-tex. You just need the usual windbreaker front and plain fabric rear stuff. And you will still sweat under your clothes--but if you're wearing all synthetic or wool, the sweat won't make you cold.

This depends on the circumstances I think.

If you are doing some outdoor activity where you may get stranded far from help, then you can be a little bit cool starting out, but you shouldn't be uncomfortably cold. (-or you should carry some more clothes...) If you get stuck such as with a mechanical breakdown, then you will be walking instead of riding and you can't depend on the high level of physical exertion to keep you warm.

How can I trust you when you are completely wrong? You can't condense something that is already liquid. Notwithstanding air temp. It makes no difference. That is all.

As for why use the jacket in hot dry conditions, of course I wouldn't. But unfortunately that is where it would work best. Go figure.

I think this thread can be closed now.

Whoa, Dude. We're just getting started.

Boyfriend loves him some RULES....

Fixed that for you. ;)

And what the heck, why shouldn't I post some irrelevancies....

The jackets I use the most, aren't made of Gore-Tex. One is a lighterweight Ground Effects jacket from New Zealand that is my go-to on randonnees. It serves both as a windbreaker, and a waterproof and breathable jacket, with hood no less. It does have pitzips. It has been durable so far, although I noticed a small amount of delamination after five years of quite a lot of use.

The cold-weather jackets are from MEC (Whoosh) and aren't made anymore. Work extremely well in dry cold weather, again with generous pitzips.

It's well known in both touring and randonneuring circles, that if you sweat, you are just going to have to put up with riding damp to wettish under the jacket. The essence of the jacket is to reduce saturation of clothing underneath to a limited degree irrespective of the technical fabric used, but I think it's mostly to provide a wind barrier to reduce the effect of evaporative cooling. In a curious way, I have found that jackets that evacuate vapour from the inside rapidly (eg, the MEC) can feel colder to ride when the temps drop.

Layering is one way to help reduce the chill factor. Despite the love affair many have with wool, and particularly merino, I have decided over many years of experience that the best solution for me is polypro against the skin. It's hydrophobic, and if there is another fabric over it, such as merino or polyester, then the outer "breathable" jacket, the chances of me feeling warmer are much better.

As to windproof jackets, the ones I use the most are microfibre. They aren't waterproof by any stretch, but they aren't meant to be or sold as such. The fact they are microfibre means they are as breathable as any other non-treated/waterproof material, but the close weave also means they are effective at keeping the effects of cold wind at bay.

Over the years, GoreTex has never seemed to deliver for cycling purposes. There are many who say it was never designed for heavy duty exercise, but primarily for Arctic/Antarctic use where the humidity is low and optimises the evacuation of water vapour from the inside. I know that because of that reputation, I have never considered it for any cycling garment (or in fact, because of its excessive cost and restrictive licensing rights for manufacture).

The new GoreTex fabrics may well be better, but by the sounds of its, the trade-off is durability. Again, not a selling point for me.

I'll just pass on another irrelevancy. It's about 50° out in my roller room at head height, probably 40° or less at the floor. An hour earlier, before I turned the heat on, it had been about 35°. The place leaks like a sieve. Usually I ride out there in a poly T-shirt, shorts, and short finger gloves.

Today, I went out in that gear except for long-finger gloves because the levers felt like ice. That felt OK until I started to sweat. As soon as I had water on my arms, it felt like it was freezing there. I went back inside and put on my new Voler LS winter jersey. That felt OK until I started to sweat again, and then I had the usual feeling I get when I'm wearing waterproof/breathable, i.e. like I'm going to blow up because I can't get rid of the heat. Sweat has to evaporate! That's how you get rid of heat. Just sweating inside a waterproof is the most miserable experience a cyclist can have, IMO.

What to do? I turned on the box fan because cycling gear is supposed to be used outdoors. As soon as the box fan went on, the sweat started to evaporate because this jersey fabric, while insulating, is not at all windproof. I did my Z4 intervals and felt fine the whole time from there on out. The jersey + wind kept my skin temperature where it was supposed to be.

I keep saying this. Either sweat has to evaporate or you have to let rain water in to cool down. I cannot figure out how anyone can ride hard in a waterproof without losing about half their watts to overheating inefficiencies. If you're trying to get it to evaporate, the best thing is no wind jacket at all and just correct layering. If it's raining, then you need a wind jacket of just the right porosity to let just enough water through to keep you cool. I find at any particular temperature that the insulation I'd wear in the dry will also keep me comfy in the rain if I add my wind jacket.