New to the cycling world... And have learned a lot, especially with this great forum. However...
I still don't get the catch on how important wheels are...

Some seem to say wheels are a critical part of the bike and always upgrade their bikes... Others say having a cheap alloy set will give you as good performance as expensive carbon ones..
Im sure there is a middle ground... But bias towards which side?

Ive seen that most of the bike manufacturers include wheels that cost about 10% of the bike.
So in a $3000 USD bike, the retail cost of the wheels set will be around 300-400. Is it worth upgrading to (for example) a carbon set?

The aim would be to gain stability and improve the overall feel of the bike... not necessarily go 0.1 MPH faster down the road.

Thoughts?

Heavier wheels or tires give more stability.

If it's windy, lower profile wheels give more stability.

You should try some different wheels on a demo program to see if you can feel a difference.

Upgrade to carbon no. You aren't saying how expensive of a bike you are buying. Maybe upgrading wheels on a $700 - $800 bike yes. The other part I picked up was you said you were kind of new back to cycling again. Why not just buy the bike that works for you ride the bike like crazy and then when or if the wheels fail do the upgrade then. If you just want the bling of new wheels somebody advised me recently then just go for it.

Zman

Look at rim outer mass more than material. Outer being rims, tires, tubes. The aero part matters too. That is number of spokes and rim profile.
Carbon clinchers have a lot more compromises in them than carbon tubulars.
For the money ~$400, I would not focus on any material.
If doing clinchers - as I expect you would be, see Shimano Ultegra rims.

The only thing in cycling that is a bigger scam than carbon wheels or superlight aluminum wheels is ceramic bearings.

They're all overpriced junk for fat old men who don't know the first thing about training.

How much experience do you have riding? What kind of riding do you do (e.g., flats vs climbing, etc.)? Maybe too early to be obsessing about changing wheels.

Do yourself a favor and go to November Bicycles and read the last 18 months of blogs.

Ha ha, I couldn't get away with saying that! Maybe not even with writing that! I literally LOL'ed.

What's the "instability" you're having problems with?
-Bike handles noodly when out of the saddle at low speed?
-Steering is twitchy at high speed?
-Steering jerks around too much during crosswind gusts?
-You've got a shimmy, steering starts wobbling on its own?

you can ask any number of people their opinions about such things, but until you put the miles in on multiple bikes with various types of wheels and tires yourself, you'll never know. it varies from person to person and for various reasons.

but i will say this, i've found precious little difference between middle of the road priced, or even DIY wheels and the expensive stuff. work on dropping five percent of your body weight if you really want to make or feel a difference in performance.

What bike and wheelset are you riding now?

The irony is that fewer spokes require a stronger and heavier rim and crazy spoke tension. I have 20+ year old wheels, with 32 slim spokes, that are as light as any reasonable (outside of exotica) wheel you can buy today. We are literally reinventing the wheel.

One thing I noticed on the stock wheels (PR-2?) on my former Giant defy was low spoke tension and obvious brake rub. Better wheels that that is definitely available, or an experienced mechanic could have improved on the poor factory assembly. I do how ever agree that there needs to be some reason to buy new wheels other than "just because" or imagined shortcomings. If possible try some "better" wheels before committing to the expense.

Stability and feel? No difference at all unless you are reducing weight considerably. If so, the 'feel' will change as in accelerating will feel a bit easier. Some wheels will make you 0.1mph faster but if you don't care for that then I wouldn't bother.

IMHO, most decent brand road bikes come with wheels that are durable and reliable. measurable improvements in performance are not going to be statistically relevant to 99% of us, though they make the difference between a podium finish at the highest levels of racing. we all get caught up in the upgraditis a little. and lets face it, the latest carbon rims do looks cool as hell. but...... just admit to yourself why you're getting them, if its just because you want them go for it, just don't try to convince others that you 'need' them or that you're noticeably faster with them.

If I were serious about getting faster I'd spend my "Zipp 404 money" in two other places instead, 1. a quality power meter (and the associated learning about how to use one properly) and 2. getting some formal coaching. This assumes you already have a bike and the fit is dialed in properly for you.

all that said, I'd still kinda like to have the cool wheels myself LOL

I agree it is different.
A lot of that is the whole Aero thing which while the rim gets most of the attention, the number of spokes is big factor too. I bought 16 spokes in carbon rims ~20 years ago (Nimble Fly's).
The higher tension also adds to ride/handling and I think is better than more/lower tension of the older alloy rim days.
But those Ultegra alloy wheels I suggested do take very high tension. The material is much thicker around the spoke hole.
Same true for some exotica carbon wheels where they are now molding around spoke hols rather than drilling. Now tensions in a set I have are 140kgf/spoke. That is high, but it makes a very light, stiff and responsive wheel. That is not what the OP is looking for, but I think the Ultegra's may be. Esp used.

As [MENTION=419048]Racing Dan[/MENTION] pointed out the spoke tension may be different. You can feel that between two similar moment of inertia wheels. The stability thing - I don't know where that would be different other than quality and precision of parts.

Wheels are certainly a critical part of a bike. Don't believe me? Try riding without them.

Wheels are low-hanging fruit for reducing the bike's weight and they're easy to swap from bike to bike. Some people swap wheels for different rides, a light set for climbing, an aero set for time trials, and so on.

Other than that I can't say that you could expect an appreciable difference in performance from wheels. I understand the impact of rotating weight on acceleration and handling, and you can "notice" a difference with lighter wheels, but whether what you notice is an actual gain in performance and handling, other than the bike being lighter overall, I am unconvinced.

I suspect this is the case with most "upgrades." If you didn't know something had changed, you wouldn't notice on today's ride that anything was different than yesterday's ride.

But because you know, you can "feel the difference."

The only difference I can feel is when I ride a bike which weighs two-thirds of what the bike I rode yesterday weighed. (That is a huge relative difference.)

If I jump from my commuter to my CF sport bike, I feel it. Speed difference is measurable .... barely, and only because I use GPS or a computer ... and that depends on which route I take.

One day I pulled all the bags off my tourer and took it out ... and went nearly as fast as my CF bike on my short route--on a bike ten pounds heavier. (Part of that is the 5 % downhill ... heavy bike makes a difference there, i found.)

Stability? Deepish carbon wheels blow around like crazy in the wind, but improve cornering dramatically. Where do you want to gain stability? You get "use" to being blown around, but it doesn't go away with practice. I'll put up with a bit of being tossed around to be able to safely take the inside line every time. I know others who feel the opposite. I"m also over 200 pounds, which effects both.

https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/1098371-true-confession

See this thread.

I'm convinced that GOOD aluminum wheels are all most people need. Better than cheap alum wheels in every way, but better braking than carbon wheels, less expensive, strong, stiff, and stable, and plenty lightweight for most normal people. (1400-1700 grams)...less worry about cross-winds, less worry about damage.

It's true. One time I bought carbon wheels and gained 80 pounds and 10 years, then I lent my bike to a friend and lost all the weight overnight and got young again. If you buy carbon wheels you'll go bald and your junk won't work anymore.

I think your observation may be a bit generous, probably because you are looking at retail prices for aftermarket wheels. Most of the stock wheels on $3K bikes are worth about $150, so a good quality alloy wheelset in the $500 range will be a definite upgrade in terms of weight, stiffness and possibly durability.

I agree with this. The first bike I bought new (in 2006) came with entry level, but reliable wheels. They were heavy, but they rolled just fine. After riding some friends' bikes with higher end aluminum wheels, I decided to get a set, and bought some good used wheels on ebay. The difference in feel on the same bike with the same tires was dramatic. The handling of the bike changed immensely for the better. It turned in more quickly and seemed to accelerate better out of slow corners. It almost felt to me like the bike wanted to wheelie compared to the stock wheels. The lighter, stiffer wheels made no measurable difference in my actual speed, but the improved responsiveness made riding that much more enjoyable.


Now, I also have a set of 45mm carbon wheels. While they are stiffer still than the aluminum wheels, they weigh almost exactly the same, so they don't feel any more responsive. I can feel the extra stiffness when riding, but they don't really alter the overall feel of the bike. They do move around when it's windy, and they don't brake as well from high speeds. But they sure look awesome!


So, I agree, for most people, decent aluminum wheels are a really good choice for all around riding.