Castelli: Absurd Sizing and Inconsistent Quality
09-29-17 | 05:03 AM
#26
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,286
Likes: 1
I was going to say: local shop has team jerseys from Castelli. Although they are both race type, one is standard race cut, and the other is what the shop calls their "climber's" jersey (lower collar, tighter, slightly longer sleeves, finer, mesh-like fabric). Tried them both. Regular race jersey fits fine in Medium - properly trim, but can be zipped up without really noticeable stretching. Climber's jersey in Large, the fabric definitely has to stretch in order for it to be zipped up. Kinda makes sense. Although quite slim, among competitive cyclists, I'm pretty average size, but among climbers, I'm on the taller side (hence slightly larger).
09-29-17 | 05:22 AM
#27
LBKA (formerly punkncat)
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,324
Likes: 1,016
From: Jawja
Bikes: Spec Roubaix SL4, GT Traffic 1.0
I used to love Castelli as a kid, when I was thin as a beanpole. I decided to try to get some new gear from them some years back 1)recalling that I liked them, and 2) because I really dig the scorpion logo
The sizing was, as all else have mentioned, a total joke. I couldn't have fit my sack in those pants without going up an octave...much less putting a leg in. I handed the shorts and shirt to my son. He looked at the sizing and made the comment that he couldn't wear "fat man" size. He tried them on and they were even too tight for him.
I still have the brand new jersey and shorts, unworn in a drawer around here somewhere.
The sizing was, as all else have mentioned, a total joke. I couldn't have fit my sack in those pants without going up an octave...much less putting a leg in. I handed the shorts and shirt to my son. He looked at the sizing and made the comment that he couldn't wear "fat man" size. He tried them on and they were even too tight for him.
I still have the brand new jersey and shorts, unworn in a drawer around here somewhere.
09-29-17 | 06:55 AM
#28
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,103
Likes: 96
From: Wilmington, DE
Bikes: 2016 Hong Fu FM-079-F, 1984 Trek 660, 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1, 2016 Islabikes Beinn 20 (son's)
I used to love Castelli as a kid, when I was thin as a beanpole. I decided to try to get some new gear from them some years back 1)recalling that I liked them, and 2) because I really dig the scorpion logo
The sizing was, as all else have mentioned, a total joke. I couldn't have fit my sack in those pants without going up an octave...much less putting a leg in. I handed the shorts and shirt to my son. He looked at the sizing and made the comment that he couldn't wear "fat man" size. He tried them on and they were even too tight for him.
I still have the brand new jersey and shorts, unworn in a drawer around here somewhere.
The sizing was, as all else have mentioned, a total joke. I couldn't have fit my sack in those pants without going up an octave...much less putting a leg in. I handed the shorts and shirt to my son. He looked at the sizing and made the comment that he couldn't wear "fat man" size. He tried them on and they were even too tight for him.
I still have the brand new jersey and shorts, unworn in a drawer around here somewhere.
09-29-17 | 07:06 AM
#29
Farmer tan
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,985
Likes: 30
From: Burbank, CA
Bikes: Allez, SuperSix Evo
Rapha, Assos and 7Mesh XL bibs all fit me fine. Castelli has to be sized way up and 2XL Sorpasso Wind bib tights fit OK.
2XL Nano Flex 2 bib knickers are absurdly small however, smashing my genitals and digging into my shoulders. I'm not fat but the 3XL Nano Flex knickers fit nicely. I understand needing to size up but 3XL? Really?
The problem is that the 2XL made in Romania are objectively better made than the 3XL which are made in China. Mesh bib fabric on the Romanian made product is noticeably softer and the stitching on the Chinese made product is downright poor quality.
This isn't about products made in China but about a company like Castelli which claims to be on the cutting edge of high-end gear. Given the price I simply expect better than this.
Romanian made on top, Chinese made on bottom...
Chinese on the left, Romanian on the right...
Lower quality materials, rediculous sizing and inconsistent manufacturing all point to a company more interested in cutting cost than living up to their marketing claims.
Back they go.
-Tim-
2XL Nano Flex 2 bib knickers are absurdly small however, smashing my genitals and digging into my shoulders. I'm not fat but the 3XL Nano Flex knickers fit nicely. I understand needing to size up but 3XL? Really?
The problem is that the 2XL made in Romania are objectively better made than the 3XL which are made in China. Mesh bib fabric on the Romanian made product is noticeably softer and the stitching on the Chinese made product is downright poor quality.
This isn't about products made in China but about a company like Castelli which claims to be on the cutting edge of high-end gear. Given the price I simply expect better than this.
Romanian made on top, Chinese made on bottom...
Chinese on the left, Romanian on the right...
Lower quality materials, rediculous sizing and inconsistent manufacturing all point to a company more interested in cutting cost than living up to their marketing claims.
Back they go.
-Tim-
I'm suspicious about the authenticity, now that you've shown that they also provide them with better stitching.
My Bellwether shorts with better stitching have lasted forever.
09-29-17 | 07:21 AM
#30
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,726
Likes: 9,738
From: TC, MN
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
If you can size up, there's no reason not to, but I've found that, particularly with some of the Italian brands, you run out of runway pretty quickly when they size super small. I wear an L in most t-shirts (though an M in some absurdly 'Merican-sized brands) and the largest sizes of some Euro jerseys are too sausage-casing-esque to fit me, even if they're labeled 3XL.
09-29-17 | 07:37 AM
#31
Thread Starter
- Soli Deo Gloria -
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 14,779
Likes: 743
From: Northwest Georgia
Bikes: 2018 Rodriguez Custom Fixed Gear, 2017 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2015 Bianchi Pista, 2002 Fuji Robaix
Sorry, I misunderstood. Thought you were comparing the Sorpassos (which fit fine I think you said) with the Nanos. And Sorpassos cost a good amount more than Nanos. . Price is generally related to quality. For 7Mesh, Assos and Rapha, who you also referenced, one is probably hard pressed to find a set of bib tights from any of these three makers for under $200, while the Castellis are easy to find well under $100. So I would say price is relevant to discussion if thread is about quality comparisons.
Yeah, I wasn't clear. Sorry about that. Size has little to do with my frustration but the quality of the two when compared side by side.
As for price, Assos T.Milleshorts_S7 are $159. 7Mesh sold the MK1 bibs for $100 after introducing the MK2. Rapha had a sale not long ago - Classic II bibshorts were $179 IIRC, maybe a bit more.
-Tim-
Last edited by TimothyH; 09-29-17 at 07:49 AM.
09-29-17 | 07:48 AM
#32
Thread Starter
- Soli Deo Gloria -
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 14,779
Likes: 743
From: Northwest Georgia
Bikes: 2018 Rodriguez Custom Fixed Gear, 2017 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2015 Bianchi Pista, 2002 Fuji Robaix
^^ This is the exact point of my post.
The Nano Flex fabric is unique but I have no doubt that it can be counterfeited. Of all the features however the main panels of the bibs look and feel identical as do the chamois. I cannot discern a difference in the Nano Flex fabric between the two.
The bib fabric and leg grippers are sufficiently different and the stitching is so far off that I do wonder.
More likely is a manufacturer who introduced a product with initial high quality and over time shifted manufacturing to less expensive location and lest costly technique and materials to save money - cheaper bib strap mesh, less time consuming stitching, etc.
Both are packed for return today.
-Tim-
09-29-17 | 08:00 AM
#34
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,103
Likes: 96
From: Wilmington, DE
Bikes: 2016 Hong Fu FM-079-F, 1984 Trek 660, 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1, 2016 Islabikes Beinn 20 (son's)
If you can size up, there's no reason not to, but I've found that, particularly with some of the Italian brands, you run out of runway pretty quickly when they size super small. I wear an L in most t-shirts (though an M in some absurdly 'Merican-sized brands) and the largest sizes of some Euro jerseys are too sausage-casing-esque to fit me, even if they're labeled 3XL.
09-29-17 | 08:13 AM
#35
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 45,236
Likes: 23,399
If you can size up, there's no reason not to, but I've found that, particularly with some of the Italian brands, you run out of runway pretty quickly when they size super small. I wear an L in most t-shirts (though an M in some absurdly 'Merican-sized brands) and the largest sizes of some Euro jerseys are too sausage-casing-esque to fit me, even if they're labeled 3XL.
09-29-17 | 08:14 AM
#36
Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 9,143
Likes: 1,736
From: Wherever I am
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX
Yeah, I wasn't clear. Sorry about that. Size has little to do with my frustration but the quality of the two when compared side by side. It is like they are completely different products.
As for price, Assos T.Milleshorts_S7 are $159. 7Mesh sold the MK1 bibs for $100 after introducing the MK2. Rapha had a sale not long ago - Classic II bibshorts were $179 IIRC, maybe a bit more.
-Tim-
As for price, Assos T.Milleshorts_S7 are $159. 7Mesh sold the MK1 bibs for $100 after introducing the MK2. Rapha had a sale not long ago - Classic II bibshorts were $179 IIRC, maybe a bit more.
-Tim-
A place like ChainReaction seems better about providing the model year with their clothing.
FYI, Castelli's best stuff seems to come out of Morocco.
09-29-17 | 08:40 AM
#37
Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 9,143
Likes: 1,736
From: Wherever I am
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX
Illustrative.. off of the Steepandcheap (CC/backcountry sister site). First is Black/Black color scheme, 2nd photo should be the Black/White color scheme (personally, I don't really see much difference). Same model year? If so, why would one be much more discounted than the other? Also.. notice the sewn in tag at the back collar.. can you spot the difference?
.
.
Last edited by Sy Reene; 09-29-17 at 08:45 AM.
09-29-17 | 08:52 AM
#38
Thread Starter
- Soli Deo Gloria -
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 14,779
Likes: 743
From: Northwest Georgia
Bikes: 2018 Rodriguez Custom Fixed Gear, 2017 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2015 Bianchi Pista, 2002 Fuji Robaix
Sy... Thanks for the info.
Change in location and downward revisions to the design are what I suspect.
Caveat emptor for everyone out there.
By the way, the melancholic me loves your signature.
-Tim-
Change in location and downward revisions to the design are what I suspect.
Caveat emptor for everyone out there.
By the way, the melancholic me loves your signature.
-Tim-
09-29-17 | 09:23 AM
#39
Chases Dogs for Sport
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,289
Likes: 147
But my Gabbas are size M.
Last edited by FlashBazbo; 09-29-17 at 01:11 PM.
09-29-17 | 01:44 PM
#41
Full Member
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 487
Likes: 54
From: Washington, DC
Bikes: Trek Domane 4.3
09-29-17 | 03:04 PM
#42
Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 9,143
Likes: 1,736
From: Wherever I am
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX
Why the resistance to just buying the next larger size? I don't wear *anything* size large these days. My 32" waist pants, which were snug this spring, have a few inches to spare these days. But the Castelli size large shorts fit and were more comfortable than the 4 other styles I tried (all of which were mediums, my typical size for bike shorts). Discounting a product because the size doesn't make sense to you is really odd behavior. Then again, my wife has been known to do the same... (want to see really oddball sizing? go look at some women's clothes)
09-29-17 | 03:19 PM
#43
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,103
Likes: 96
From: Wilmington, DE
Bikes: 2016 Hong Fu FM-079-F, 1984 Trek 660, 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1, 2016 Islabikes Beinn 20 (son's)
Methinks this issue is of course not with people who've tried on the clothing in a physical store, but those who ordered online, following the size charts posted and then have the P.I.T.A. process of having to return/exchange, because Castelli has a bad track record in providing consistent size charts. Making it worse, even if you know your correct size for one model clothing, it may not work for another model.
09-29-17 | 11:28 PM
#44
Junior Member
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
There is a huge difference between Castelli's race/team fit and club fit, that's for sure. I still end up buying small jerseys and small bibs for each at 5'10"
The bibs are pretty tough to get into, but they feel okay once pulled up. They're actually a bit loose around the thigh side panels...
The bibs are pretty tough to get into, but they feel okay once pulled up. They're actually a bit loose around the thigh side panels...
09-29-17 | 11:43 PM
#45
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,103
Likes: 96
From: Wilmington, DE
Bikes: 2016 Hong Fu FM-079-F, 1984 Trek 660, 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1, 2016 Islabikes Beinn 20 (son's)
09-30-17 | 12:22 PM
#46
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 609
Likes: 29
[QUOTE=Sy Reene;19896529]Methinks this issue is of course not with people who've tried on the clothing in a physical store, but those who ordered online, following the size charts posted and then have the P.I.T.A. process of having to return/exchange. QUOTE]
I agree 100%. This is why I stopped buying any Castelli. I pretty much have to order all my gear on-line so consistency in sizing within brand is beneficial.
I agree 100%. This is why I stopped buying any Castelli. I pretty much have to order all my gear on-line so consistency in sizing within brand is beneficial.
10-01-17 | 02:14 AM
#47
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,332
Likes: 373
Rapha, Assos and 7Mesh XL bibs all fit me fine. Castelli has to be sized way up and 2XL Sorpasso Wind bib tights fit OK.
2XL Nano Flex 2 bib knickers are absurdly small however, smashing my genitals and digging into my shoulders. I'm not fat but the 3XL Nano Flex knickers fit nicely. I understand needing to size up but 3XL? Really?
The problem is that the 2XL made in Romania are objectively better made than the 3XL which are made in China. Mesh bib fabric on the Romanian made product is noticeably softer and the stitching on the Chinese made product is downright poor quality.
This isn't about products made in China but about a company like Castelli which claims to be on the cutting edge of high-end gear. Given the price I simply expect better than this.
Romanian made on top, Chinese made on bottom...
Chinese on the left, Romanian on the right...
Lower quality materials, rediculous sizing and inconsistent manufacturing all point to a company more interested in cutting cost than living up to their marketing claims.
Back they go.
-Tim-
2XL Nano Flex 2 bib knickers are absurdly small however, smashing my genitals and digging into my shoulders. I'm not fat but the 3XL Nano Flex knickers fit nicely. I understand needing to size up but 3XL? Really?
The problem is that the 2XL made in Romania are objectively better made than the 3XL which are made in China. Mesh bib fabric on the Romanian made product is noticeably softer and the stitching on the Chinese made product is downright poor quality.
This isn't about products made in China but about a company like Castelli which claims to be on the cutting edge of high-end gear. Given the price I simply expect better than this.
Romanian made on top, Chinese made on bottom...
Chinese on the left, Romanian on the right...
Lower quality materials, rediculous sizing and inconsistent manufacturing all point to a company more interested in cutting cost than living up to their marketing claims.
Back they go.
-Tim-
10-01-17 | 03:56 AM
#48
pluralis majestatis
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,206
Likes: 5
From: you rope
Bikes: a DuhRosa
Issue I take umbrage with is size labeling. In the race aero jerseys I wear M. In standard cut I wear Small.
Why can't I order the same apparent-size for both garments and have 1 fit extremely tight as race/aero should be, and 1 moderately tight as performance garment should be ?
Same thing in normal clothing world where manufacturers straight up recommend people to size up or down...if your US11 shoes fit like US12...why not relabel it US12?
Why can't I order the same apparent-size for both garments and have 1 fit extremely tight as race/aero should be, and 1 moderately tight as performance garment should be ?
Same thing in normal clothing world where manufacturers straight up recommend people to size up or down...if your US11 shoes fit like US12...why not relabel it US12?
10-01-17 | 05:33 AM
#49
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,286
Likes: 1
Issue I take umbrage with is size labeling. In the race aero jerseys I wear M. In standard cut I wear Small.
Why can't I order the same apparent-size for both garments and have 1 fit extremely tight as race/aero should be, and 1 moderately tight as performance garment should be ?
Same thing in normal clothing world where manufacturers straight up recommend people to size up or down...if your US11 shoes fit like US12...why not relabel it US12?
Why can't I order the same apparent-size for both garments and have 1 fit extremely tight as race/aero should be, and 1 moderately tight as performance garment should be ?
Same thing in normal clothing world where manufacturers straight up recommend people to size up or down...if your US11 shoes fit like US12...why not relabel it US12?
Castelli sizing actually makes a bit of sense to me; different designs are sized (range and fit) to correspond the types of cyclists for whom they are designed. Expecting them to include lineman-size for their pro designs is like expecting Riddell to include jockey-size for theirs. Seriously, among pro cyclists, 185 lbs is XL, and not so many of those 185 lbs are in the upper body, so for an average-sized or broad-chested american man to expect a pro jersey to fit is kind of ridiculous. But then they have their recreational designs, and if you consider the sizes of recreational riders, even the largest pro riders would barely be larger than Medium.
10-01-17 | 06:24 AM
#50
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 609
Likes: 29
Umbrage? Sorry to hear that.
Castelli sizing actually makes a bit of sense to me; different designs are sized (range and fit) to correspond the types of cyclists for whom they are designed. Expecting them to include lineman-size for their pro designs is like expecting Riddell to include jockey-size for theirs. Seriously, among pro cyclists, 185 lbs is XL, and not so many of those 185 lbs are in the upper body, so for an average-sized or broad-chested american man to expect a pro jersey to fit is kind of ridiculous. But then they have their recreational designs, and if you consider the sizes of recreational riders, even the largest pro riders would barely be larger than Medium.
Castelli sizing actually makes a bit of sense to me; different designs are sized (range and fit) to correspond the types of cyclists for whom they are designed. Expecting them to include lineman-size for their pro designs is like expecting Riddell to include jockey-size for theirs. Seriously, among pro cyclists, 185 lbs is XL, and not so many of those 185 lbs are in the upper body, so for an average-sized or broad-chested american man to expect a pro jersey to fit is kind of ridiculous. But then they have their recreational designs, and if you consider the sizes of recreational riders, even the largest pro riders would barely be larger than Medium.
I agree with what you say about the typical sizing of cyclists & possibly some complaining. However, I'm about 135lbs with not a lot of fat. At my size, I'd expect to wear the same size regardless of cut/design. The only difference for cut/design should be the tightness of fit by design. However before I gave up on Castelli, I had some items in S and some in L. They just make it almost impossible to order on-line with any confidence that the item will fit.