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Summer Base Layers?

Old 06-19-18, 10:19 PM
  #1  
TimothyH
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Summer Base Layers?

We haven't had a good summer base layer debate thread in a while.

I just ordered two Craft Cool Mesh sleeveless and love them, so much so that I paid full retail. Lost a lot of weight and my L and XL are kinda baggy. They don't work as well when they are baggy.

One has to be careful because there are three season base layers which look exactly like summer base layers but they don't work as well when the furnace is on high. I own two of these and they are very comfy under bib straps. True summer base layers however, are designed for the heat. I love the heat. It is going to be 95 later in the week - bring it. Backcountry gives free two day shipping and I can't wait to use them.

They also look pro under a jersey. Tell me I'm wrong.


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Old 06-19-18, 10:58 PM
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Nothing personal, but if it wasn't used underwear, I would offer to buy the larger ones you shrank out of.

Meanwhile, linkie?
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Old 06-19-18, 11:35 PM
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Castelli core mesh 3 FTW
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Old 06-20-18, 01:14 AM
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You are wrong.
The only thing on a bike that has the ability to look pro is the rider.
Replace accessories with intervals.
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Old 06-20-18, 02:36 AM
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Originally Posted by evan326
Castelli core mesh 3 FTW
I got one of those wife beaters. Doesn't seem to work in the heat.
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Old 06-20-18, 03:50 AM
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I wear a Pearl Izumi thermal transfer sleeveless base layer under casual shirts year round to control sweat. Helps avoid sweat marks on the good shirts.

But on most bike rides in summer it's too hot for layers, although I'll sometimes wear thin long sleeve jerseys on sunny days for UV protection.
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Old 06-20-18, 07:34 AM
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?? still fail to see the logic behind this. Seems like marketing to me. My summer "baselayer" is the lightest jerseys I can find. I can't imagine putting on anything else underneath, seems counter-productive.
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Old 06-20-18, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jamesdak
?? still fail to see the logic behind this. Seems like marketing to me.
Do you wear one of these? They work in a similar fashion.

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Old 06-20-18, 08:02 AM
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I love Craft's LS baselayers. However, I never could get myself though to spring the money for sleeveless tank base layers. I seem to do fine with the "Bpbtti" brand (yes, that's the nonsensical spelling) of sleeveless base layers off of Amazon ($20 for a 2-pack).

Last edited by Sy Reene; 06-20-18 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 06-20-18, 08:22 AM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup
Do you wear one of these? They work in a similar fashion.

I think that the confusion, at least for me, is that a cap like this isn't going underneath an additional layer, so the cap is more like a summer jersey - helping to manage and dissipate sweat and cooling in the process. So what does a summer base layer do better, when used in combination with a jersey, than a good jersey alone? I could see how a mesh undergarment might provide more room for air circulation, but I would think that'd only be an improvement if the top layer didn't breathe too well on its own. At the same time, if you've got a nice, breathable waffle-knit jersey, will putting something under it impede its ability to wick sweat away?

I'm sure that these questions are answered best by trying one, but I'd kinda like to wrap my mind around how they work before taking a $$ leap of faith.
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Old 06-20-18, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
I'm sure that these questions are answered best by trying one, but I'd kinda like to wrap my mind around how they work before taking a $$ leap of faith.
For riding in this area, a summer base layer keeps me cooler by helping the body stay moist. When it's 110 degrees(with 8% humidity) like it was yesterday, the 18mph wind passing over you drys the jersey so quickly that you never get any cooling effect. A baselayer helps to keep the body moist, and cooler than when just wearing a tight cycling jersey. Most people doubt it, until they try it.

I've been cycling in Phoenix/Las Vegas summers since 1995, and have figured out what works.

FTR, I doubted sweat caps worked until last summer, but now I won't ride without one.
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Old 06-20-18, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster
You are wrong.
The only thing on a bike that has the ability to look pro is the rider.
Replace accessories with intervals.
Well, what I said was look pro. I didn't say anything about actually being pro or riding like a pro. Pro's stand still and ride slowly at times too.

I don't consider a summer base layer an accessory but an essential.


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Last edited by TimothyH; 06-20-18 at 09:06 AM.
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Old 06-20-18, 09:08 AM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by evan326
Castelli core mesh 3 FTW
I have wanted to try one. I'll bet they work great.

I've a three season base layer, very comfy under bibs but not for very hot weather. It is fun to wear though and adds a punch of color similar to a bold tie with a plain shirt.

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Old 06-20-18, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by wgscott
Nothing personal, but if it wasn't used underwear, I would offer to buy the larger ones you shrank out of.

Meanwhile, linkie?
No offense taken and you don't want these. Georgia red clay wreaks havoc.

https://www.backcountry.com/craft-co...eless-mens?s=a

https://shop.craftsports.us/194378-c...ight-sl-m.html


-Tim-
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Old 06-20-18, 09:31 AM
  #15  
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I've always thought part of the reason for disagreement on the value of using a base layer in the summer is that summer conditions vary so much. If you ride where the humidity is high, you've got very different physical conditions than I do, where it's usually dry -- and sometimes crazy dry, like RH < 4%.

Cooling is a product of moisture being drawn from the skin through evaporation, so whatever fosters that process should help. Here, in the hot and dry of Tucson, adding a layer does not help, at least if the jersey fits well and the material sheds moisture well. So for me, no base layer when it's really hot.
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Old 06-20-18, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup
For riding in this area, a summer base layer keeps me cooler by helping the body stay moist. When it's 110 degrees(with 8% humidity) like it was yesterday, the 18mph wind passing over you drys the jersey so quickly that you never get any cooling effect. A baselayer helps to keep the body moist, and cooler than when just wearing a tight cycling jersey. Most people doubt it, until they try it.

I've been cycling in Phoenix/Las Vegas summers since 1995, and have figured out what works.
Originally Posted by GuitarBob
Cooling is a product of moisture being drawn from the skin through evaporation, so whatever fosters that process should help. Here, in the hot and dry of Tucson, adding a layer does not help, at least if the jersey fits well and the material sheds moisture well. So for me, no base layer when it's really hot.
Ok then, so we're all in agreement?
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Old 06-20-18, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene
Ok then, so we're all in agreement?
I was thinking the same thing.

Of course it doesn't get really hot in Tucson. Ask anyone that lives in Phoenix.
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Old 06-20-18, 09:49 AM
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Heh, I noticed that too

Tucson is modestly cooler than Phoenix, but still bloody hot. Predicted high for Friday for Tucson is 109 F and for Phoenix is 111 F. Yikes.

I didn't challenge @noodle soup and his interest in staying 'moist' because whatever works... but it doesn't make sense to me.
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Old 06-20-18, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by GuitarBob
Heh, I noticed that too

Tucson is modestly cooler than Phoenix, but still bloody hot. Predicted high for Friday for Tucson is 109 F and for Phoenix is 111 F. Yikes.

I didn't challenge @noodle soup and his interest in staying 'moist' because whatever works... but it doesn't make sense to me.
Yup, whatever works, though it seems to me that if there was someone or company motivated to do so, there probably could exist some scientific test that could be conducted that yields a real answer.
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Old 06-20-18, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by GuitarBob
Heh, I noticed that too

Tucson is modestly cooler than Phoenix, but still bloody hot. Predicted high for Friday for Tucson is 109 F and for Phoenix is 111 F. Yikes.

I didn't challenge @noodle soup and his interest in staying 'moist' because whatever works... but it doesn't make sense to me.
Tuscon being cooler is mostly a joke.

The reason I say that staying moist helps is because swamp coolers need water to work. If the cooler runs dry, it doesn't work. It's the same thing for the jersey. I've found that a cycling jersey drys out too fast, and a base layer helps me stay wet.

YMMV
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Old 06-20-18, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene
Yup, whatever works, though it seems to me that if there was someone or company motivated to do so, there probably could exist some scientific test that could be conducted that yields a real answer.
A couple of different mechanisms at play; I think the most important is evaporative cooling. Lifted from the web:

evaporative cooling
  1. reduction in temperature resulting from the evaporation of a liquid, which removes latent heat from the surface from which evaporation takes place.

Cooling effect works best (largest temperature drop) when the air is driest, which is why it doesn't work so well where it's humid.
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Old 06-20-18, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup
Tuscon being cooler is mostly a joke.
Sure, but when it's hot, I'll take every degree I can get
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Old 06-20-18, 10:01 AM
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Actually, just came across this tidbit in a cyclist.co.uk article, which to me offers the most sensical take on the matter:
"By his own admission, Simon Baynes of sportswear manufacturer Craft is ‘sitting on the fence on this one’. In his opinion it’s entirely dependent on the jersey material.

‘We make a jersey based on the properties of our Cool Mesh Superlight base layer, designed in conjunction with Fabian Cancellara and others, so when the jersey is constructed in this way it’s not necessary to wear an additional wicking layer.’"

IOW, if you're wearing an ultralight summer mesh type jersey, that's already built for ultimate wicking, there is maybe no sense in a base. OTOH, if you're wearing a regular medium or lightweight SS jersey, then a purpose-built wicking base does make sense.
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Old 06-20-18, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by GuitarBob
Cooling effect works best (largest temperature drop) when the air is driest, which is why it doesn't work so well where it's humid.
Next month is gonna suck, but it's still better than having to deal with cycling in freezing temps.
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Old 06-20-18, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by GuitarBob
A couple of different mechanisms at play; I think the most important is evaporative cooling. Lifted from the web:

evaporative cooling
  1. reduction in temperature resulting from the evaporation of a liquid, which removes latent heat from the surface from which evaporation takes place.
Then again, you have a cooling effect of wind hitting a wet garment, vs. wearing a dry garment. Wouldn't there be something to argument that best option is to have a clothing setup that keeps your trunk just a little damp, (but obviously not dripping)?
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