Originally Posted by Sy Reene (Post 20403967)

For me, probably 95% of the scuffs are from switchback/hairpins on a combo pedestrian/cycling ramp and path to get over the George Washington Bridge NYC/NJ. It looks like a lot, but it's accumulated over a couple years of rides. Anyone else here do the GWB ramp and can speak to this?

Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 20404262)

I wouldn't want a bike designed not to have any overlap and then it wouldn't handle well at speed.

Originally Posted by Kimmo (Post 20404967)

To my mind, toe overlap is epic fail; it just shouldn't be a thing that's tolerated. Aside from messing with low-speed turns, it really interferes with track-standing at the lights. Lucky for me I only get it on bikes that are too small for me.

But for women, kids and shorter guys, I reckon the situation blows. 650C front wheels should totally be a thing on smaller bikes. I don't think 11t is the answer for gearing, either - if you want 11t on 700C, where are you on 650C? And it makes the gaps between gears unnecessarily wide anyway.

Another reason for smaller front wheels aside from toe overlap is crazy-short head tubes, which are hard on the headset and frame, and get to a minimum length and then leave the stack height potentially too high for smaller riders wanting an aggressive position.

Originally Posted by caloso (Post 20403833)

Unless your bike is a fixed gear and you're constantly doing low-speed U-turns, I don't see this as a real issue. If you need to turn the bars that far, learn to coast through the turn.

Originally Posted by rgconner (Post 20406489)

Amazingly, I have noticed most riders do not lean the bike at all when they turn.

Don't have to turn the bars nearly as much if you just lean the bike over a bit.

Originally Posted by Kimmo (Post 20404967)

To my mind, toe overlap is epic fail; it just shouldn't be a thing that's tolerated. Aside from messing with low-speed turns, it really interferes with track-standing at the lights. Lucky for me I only get it on bikes that are too small for me.

But for women, kids and shorter guys, I reckon the situation blows. 650C front wheels should totally be a thing on smaller bikes. I don't think 11t is the answer for gearing, either - if you want 11t on 700C, where are you on 650C? And it makes the gaps between gears unnecessarily wide anyway.

Another reason for smaller front wheels aside from toe overlap is crazy-short head tubes, which are hard on the headset and frame, and get to a minimum length and then leave the stack height potentially too high for smaller riders wanting an aggressive position.

Originally Posted by rpenmanparker (Post 20406656)

You guys forget that I ran a poll thread a while back on this topic, https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...-question.html, that showed fairly conclusively that toe overlap was more prevalent in smaller frames and less so in larger. The frame geometry differences are more significant than the foot size differences.

Originally Posted by Sy Reene (Post 20406779)

Careful with wording lest people conclude what you're saying incorrectly.. your poll showed that more than half of the respondents with larger frames had toe overlap; less than half of larger-framed bikes did not have toe overlap (25 vs 19). So for larger frames, toe overlap was more prevalent than no toe overlap.

Originally Posted by rpenmanparker (Post 20406942)

In smaller frames the score was 53 yes to 7 no. A whopping 88% of the frames had overlap. In larger frames the score was 25 yes to 19 no. Only 57% had overlap. So you are right, but so am I. The fraction of overlapping was much higher in smaller frames. If I had split large and small at 55-56 cm instead of 54-55, the larger frames might well have had more noes than yeses. The split I chose was just arbitrary. A distribution by size, cm by cm from say 46 to 63, would surely show the weighting of overlap in smaller sizes.

Originally Posted by caloso (Post 20403833)

Unless your bike is a fixed gear and you're constantly doing low-speed U-turns, I don't see this as a real issue. If you need to turn the bars that far, learn to coast through the turn.

Originally Posted by rpenmanparker (Post 20406656)

You guys forget that I ran a poll thread a while back on this topic, https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...-question.html, that showed fairly conclusively that toe overlap was more prevalent in smaller frames and less so in larger. The frame geometry differences are more significant than the foot size differences.

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Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 20404262)

It's especially problematic with fixed gears, not because of the geometry but because you can't re-position your feet. Mostly not a big deal except for slow-speed maneuvers like in parking lots and driveways. You learn to deal with it - I wouldn't want a bike designed not to have any overlap and then it wouldn't handle well at speed.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ie...=w1152-h864-no

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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker (Post 20408583)

Originally Posted by rpenmanparker (Post 20408583)

Originally Posted by rgconner (Post 20408797)

Correct, which is why they turn like freight trains and often have to dab their foot down to make the turn.

Or worse, they STOP, bringing the whole group to a halt.

Originally Posted by Kontact (Post 20409473)

Who are you talking about that ride in groups and puts their feet down to turn? I've never seen anyone ride a bike that way outside a nursery school.

Originally Posted by Litespud (Post 20409465)

I think we're talking about low speed maneuvers, which is pretty much the only time that the wheel is turned far enough over for toe overlap to be a factor. At such low speeds, leaning is not part of the turn.