And also, my favorite:

Elrath, an avid cyclist, says he rides a carbon-fiber bike—but it’s one he built himself, adding additional material at high-stress junctions. He knows others were built with far lower standards.

Hmmmm...

As for all the people afraid of CF who are now happy in their fears .... glad you are happy.

I continue to ride CF bikes and bikes with CF parts ... cheating death and risking disaster at every opportunity.

Funny how many people say stuff about how they have had metal frames fail,, so they don't trust CF. I have never had a CF frame fail ... so i should not trust my metal bikes?

Maybe some folks are so eager to be justified in their beliefs, they accept any sort of propaganda ... but to me, this is all propaganda. scant fact, spun and distorted and squeezed into inapplicable contexts for the not particularly hard-to-define potential benefits of certain vested interests.

I have had two CF seat posts fail on me. One was a no-name Chinese model ... . the other was a Bontrager Nebula. This proves that Trek is secretly a no-name Chinese CF manufacturer? For some of the folks who post on this site, there is already more than enough evidence.

Anyway ... as always, it boils down to "Ride what you like."

Have you watched the "Road Bike Party" videos? Perhaps some of those bikes are for sale.

Of course, not all the jumps were successful... and there was a lot of editing in the videos.

Someone needs to post that cool video of the guy who would cut cross sections of entire CF frames from different manufacturers and discuss the good and bad in each.

This is an awful lot of assumption on your part. The "standard-less" company was not named and the omission struck me as rather convenient - there's the implication that it's a company that any Schmoe might come across, but the fact that it's Chinese, unnamed and has little-to-no QC makes me believe that's it's one of those companies that sells knock-offs or generics via ebay and alibaba. Dollars to donuts we're not talking about a manufacturer that sells direct under their own name (Workswell, Hong-Fu, etc), let alone a manufacturer of brands that you'd find in an LBS. "So many here" don't entrust their lives to these types of companies; to the contrary, the vast majority advise against buying from them.

ETA: also, aren't the bulk of the quality manufacturers in Tiawan or the southern parts of the mainland? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Mandarin (he said that he needed a Mandarin translator) isn't the primary language in those regions. Mandarin is further north and west.

Every day, tens or hundreds of millions of people around the world ride on carbon fiber bikes, and survive the experience. If it was as bad as people say, the roads and MUPs would be carnage.

True, but how does one avoid this? Refuse to buy used CF bikes? Are they effectively disposable?

CF bikes can be ultrasonicly tested.

BTW, all bikes are effectively disposable.

I personally wouldn't buy a used carbon bike. There are tests (ultrasound, x-ray), just tapping it with a coin, but I'm not an incredibly trusting person when it comes to making deals with strangers.

After a single owner? My question is about resale and the used market.

Part of the value of a bike (currently) is that it can be sold.

mandarin is indeed the Northern language ... but it is also the language of Taiwan. And as was noted .... the "unnamed Chinese company" could have been one of the who-knows-how-many which start up, crank out some cheap crap, dissolve or simply rename themselves to avoid taxes/liability/customer complaints, and simply sell the same cheap crap under a different name .... and honestly some of the cheap stuff----stems and such---are probably as good as the better known cheap Chinese stuff.

Also ... I mean, a company like DengFu or Workswell could fake their test videos, or make the videos and simply never test .... but since they have had the same names for years, i figure they'd have been sued if they were liable.

People who buy really cheap stuff, way below market price, are taking their own risks. "Is this brand-new Ultegra group for $14.99 legit, do you think?"

CF bikes can be ultrasonicly tested, but the vast majority of CF damage that I’ve repaired, was visible without testing. We have found damage that wasn’t obviously visible, but it was close to obviously damaged areas.

“JRA, and the bike assploded” wrecks are very rare. It’s true that they are possible, but they rarely happen.

As fro used CF bikes .... Caveat Emptor. i don't have a portable ultrasound machine, and the coin test is really technical .... never misses an incipient failure .... certified by the Cat in the Hat, i believe.

it depends entirely on the seller, the look of the bike, your feeling about the whole situation, and the price of the bike.

One good point about CF, no easy way to patch and repaint without it being obvious. if someone can pull off a repair you can't see it is probably a good enough repair.

But ... the resale value as part of the bike's value? maybe for some folks. Almost everyone I know buys bikes for life, and understands that any resale value is pure bonus.

Seriously, how much does one rationally expect to make on the Second sale of a used bike?

But still .... ride what you like.

Frankly, if PMooney is happy on his custom metal, great. he is a font of wisdom, he seems like a decent guy, and he loves cycling. if he doesn't trust CF, what's that to me? I support Workswell, and I have a few stems and bars from Toseek .... no complaints whatsoever. Broke a Toseek seat post, and a Bontrager post .... but i realized that at my weight CF was not suitable for a post with over a foot of exposure. I also bought and use with joy some no-name aluminum bars.

"Hey ... do you think this $200 Pinarello frame is legit?"

It's an absurd defense and no prices won't increase significantly.

I didn’t see this point made here, but I agree 100%.

FTR, the coin test is a bit of a joke. It can confirm obvious damage, but that’s about it.

I'm good with that.

Why do you use such a vile word? Just say it sucks.

Did you buy them new?

What does that even mean with a horse?

Maybe it's a rocking horse.

In my day they were made out of wood. New wood, not this questionable origin 2nd hand wood.

I don't think CF is absolutely less durable than metal, but it's pretty clear that one of the real problems is that incipient failure is not apparent. Everything looks fine until all of a sudden it doesn't. Also, the construction makes all the difference - perhaps more than the material. Bikes frames aren't made with cast aluminum, but if they were, you'd frequently see them failing catastrophically, too.

Which gets me to wondering: how does the failure rate of frames assembled from carbon tubing compare with the failure rate of molded frames?

OK, me too, ****.

My thoughts exactly. Who knows the history of the bike? A previous crash could have weakened the fork so that it would eventually fail.

Interesting question that I doubt anybody will give you a straight answer to.

Keep in mind that most, or all frames are assembled in pieces that are epoxied together. And I don't believe the epoxy joints are failing, at least with carbon/carbon joints . Carbon/metal joints are more prone to failure.

So, in general structure, there may not be a great difference between a tube and lug constructed frame like a Colnago C40/C50/C60 or Parley and the monoque construction used by many other manufacturers.

Perhaps the greatest difference is shaped tubes allowing engineers to put weight and strength where they think it is needed, not where it isn't needed. Which is good in theory.