Road Cycling ďIt is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.Ē -- Ernest Hemingway

Light Bicycle Wheels

Old 05-15-19, 02:25 PM
  #401  
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but to keep this on topic ... I will be finishing the bday build in the next day or so.

Vredestein Fortezza Senso all weather in 25mm. --oh and if anyone is curious how they went on ... "snug" might be an understatement. Took me like 10min per tire. They look really good on, though

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Old 05-15-19, 07:53 PM
  #402  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
I know just enough to know what I don't know. And that includes not depending on manufacturers and marketers for technical expertise. For the rear wheel/front wheel question, I do understand that rear discs are used rather than front discs because front discs impair steering. But the relative effects of rear wheel and front wheel profile on overall drag is not something I've seen discussed by independent experts (and I don't count cycling journalists as independent experts. I prefer reading what the engineers have to say, preferably publishing in the peer-reviewed literature). If somebody has a pointer to something pertinent, I'd appreciate it.

On a tangential subject, the tendency to wider tires that marketers are selling ignores the importance of having a narrow tire in the front where the width of the bluff body matters. Most of the advantages of a better ride from a wider tire comes from the rear. Thus, quoting Hambini "From an aerodynamic perspective, the width of the rear tyre has little effect but the width of the front tyre has much more impact and therefore a 23mm front tyre is recommended irrespective of whether the wheel was designed for 25mm tyres. At speeds above 30km/h, it is more beneficial to have 23mm tyres than 25mm front tyres for aerodynamic benefit."
So every manufacturer and professional/national team has it wrong?

Iím gonna go out on a limb and say that you are the one that has it wrong.
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Old 05-15-19, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
So every manufacturer and professional/national team has it wrong?

Iím gonna go out on a limb and say that you are the one that has it wrong.
It wouldn't be the first time.
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Old 05-15-19, 10:42 PM
  #404  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
Yup, reductio ad absurdum. As in how well does a tire corner when it is 1 meter wide?

There's a sweet spot in there and we already know that it's between, say, 23 and 28 mm. But if we are going to fuss about carbon rims for their aerodynamic properties, we shouldn't forget that the profile of the nose (to use an analogy from aircraft) plays a big role and for a bike, the nose is the front tire.

Further quoting Hambini (same page as linked above) "It is vitally important to install tyres that are slightly narrower or inline with the brake track of the wheel rim. A ballooning tyre will impact the drag significantly."
Yes we should. If we're going to fuss about carbon rims and their aerodynamic properties, we should forget all rules of thumb, and rely on measurements instead.

One good test is worth a thousand expert opinions. Even Hammurabi's.
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Old 05-16-19, 08:12 AM
  #405  
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Another quick update for those that ride tubeless.

seems like when I installed the conti 5000ís I didnít use enough sealant (which upon looking at my bottlenwould seem to be the case, probably used less than an ounce in each wheel).

at any rate, I noticed that in between rides I was losing a lot of air, like 30lbs over 2-3 days, pumping a lot before each ride. I eventually took the time to put the bike on the stand and put a dipstick in my valves and realize that for the first time ever my Sealant had completely evaporated.

Put more orange seal in and now all good, but moral of the story is that the stock tubeless tape job seems to lose more air with these wheels when dry than others Iíve had.
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Old 05-16-19, 08:20 AM
  #406  
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Originally Posted by robbyville View Post
I noticed that in between rides I was losing a lot of air, like 30lbs over 2-3 days, pumping a lot before each ride. I eventually took the time to put the bike on the stand and put a dipstick in my valves and realize that for the first time ever my Sealant had completely evaporated.

Put more orange seal in and now all good, but moral of the story is that the stock tubeless tape job seems to lose more air with these wheels when dry than others Iíve had.
Your wheelset came with the tape installed?
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Old 05-16-19, 08:42 AM
  #407  
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Originally Posted by robbyville View Post
Another quick update for those that ride tubeless.

seems like when I installed the conti 5000ís I didnít use enough sealant (which upon looking at my bottlenwould seem to be the case, probably used less than an ounce in each wheel).

at any rate, I noticed that in between rides I was losing a lot of air, like 30lbs over 2-3 days, pumping a lot before each ride. I eventually took the time to put the bike on the stand and put a dipstick in my valves and realize that for the first time ever my Sealant had completely evaporated.

Put more orange seal in and now all good, but moral of the story is that the stock tubeless tape job seems to lose more air with these wheels when dry than others Iíve had.
I'd sooner suspect that wrestling tight tires on you lifted the tape edge (I've done it). Mine are still holding air fine. Granted I'm running 40mm tires with 40PSI of air or so.

Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Your wheelset came with the tape installed?
It is an option during the build selection to install tape and valves.
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Old 05-16-19, 09:03 AM
  #408  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Your wheelset came with the tape installed?
yep, comes that way when buying through North American distributor

Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
I'd sooner suspect that wrestling tight tires on you lifted the tape edge (I've done it). Mine are still holding air fine. Granted I'm running 40mm tires with 40PSI of air or so.
Perhaps, but I donít think so since Iíve not had this Happen before and Iím pretty good with mounting mybtubeless tires. I rarely run the sealant dry it has happened every now and again over the last five years
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Old 05-16-19, 09:03 AM
  #409  
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post


It is an option during the build selection to install tape and valves.
I understand that it's an option, but mine did not come taped from the factory. LB sent them un-taped, and included a roll of tape, along with the valves.
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Old 05-16-19, 09:30 AM
  #410  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
I understand that it's an option, but mine did not come taped from the factory. LB sent them un-taped, and included a roll of tape, along with the valves.
Hmmm, maybe cost-cutting? Maybe the difference between ordering a bespoke set versus straight from the NA warehouse?

Dunno.
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Old 05-16-19, 09:36 AM
  #411  
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
Hmmm, maybe cost-cutting? Maybe the difference between ordering a bespoke set versus straight from the NA warehouse?

Dunno.
I was glad that they weren't taped at the factory.
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Old 05-16-19, 10:11 AM
  #412  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
I was glad that they weren't taped at the factory.
You ordered yours direct from China if I remember correctly? Mine wasnít an option I donít believe from NA distributor at least I donít remember that way.
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Old 05-16-19, 10:14 AM
  #413  
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Originally Posted by robbyville View Post
Another quick update for those that ride tubeless.

seems like when I installed the conti 5000ís I didnít use enough sealant (which upon looking at my bottlenwould seem to be the case, probably used less than an ounce in each wheel).

at any rate, I noticed that in between rides I was losing a lot of air, like 30lbs over 2-3 days, pumping a lot before each ride. I eventually took the time to put the bike on the stand and put a dipstick in my valves and realize that for the first time ever my Sealant had completely evaporated.

Put more orange seal in and now all good, but moral of the story is that the stock tubeless tape job seems to lose more air with these wheels when dry than others Iíve had.
maybe I should have clarified as well. The tires ran with very little air loss these last couple of months. Iíd maybe put in 10-15 lbs once per week, pretty much on par with those that run tubes. Just the last two weeks where it must have evaporated and left me filling every two days, hence my comment about the factory tape job.
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Old 05-16-19, 10:18 AM
  #414  
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Originally Posted by robbyville View Post
You ordered yours direct from China if I remember correctly? Mine wasnít an option I donít believe from NA distributor at least I donít remember that way.
That's correct. I should check the sealant level on mine soon because it's been about 7 weeks.
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Old 05-16-19, 11:46 AM
  #415  
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So small word of caution -- the brake pads LB provides are "Shimano" compatible, except when they're not:

Top is stock pad (Campagnolo Potenza, uses Shimano pads), blue is the one from LB. Notice the LB pad is more of a wedge shape. Doesn't fit completely in the carrier. Shrug, just ordered some SwissStops anyway.

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Old 05-16-19, 12:11 PM
  #416  
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Originally Posted by superdex View Post
So small word of caution -- the brake pads LB provides are "Shimano" compatible, except when they're not:

Top is stock pad (Campagnolo Potenza, uses Shimano pads), blue is the one from LB. Notice the LB pad is more of a wedge shape. Doesn't fit completely in the carrier. Shrug, just ordered some SwissStops anyway.

Good to know. I have their pads coming with my order. I guess I'll find out whether they fit Shimano (DA 7900) brakes.
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Old 05-16-19, 12:16 PM
  #417  
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I"m debating whether I trim them to fit. Can't suppose it'd hurt?
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Old 05-19-19, 01:24 PM
  #418  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
Hmmm. I ordered my wheels 9 days ago and they said that shipping would occur in 12 days, but according to their tracking information, the rims are still in the "material prepare" and "molding" steps. Delivery might take longer than expected, it seems.
Still waiting. Order was placed on April 25. One rime is "finished", the other is in "painting", so it should be close. But it looks like shipping will be closer to a month from the time of order. I guess I wouldn't feel so impatient if they had not upped my expectations for fast shipping time.
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Old 05-19-19, 06:53 PM
  #419  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
It wouldn't be the first time.
Lol, so true!

Originally Posted by robbyville View Post
Another quick update for those that ride tubeless.

seems like when I installed the conti 5000ís I didnít use enough sealant (which upon looking at my bottlenwould seem to be the case, probably used less than an ounce in each wheel).
I installed 25mm gp5k on my 56LB with ZERO sealant, they work just fine! I'll only add some when I get the first flat.

Originally Posted by superdex View Post
I"m debating whether I trim them to fit. Can't suppose it'd hurt?
I use those pads on Campy Skeleton non series (the cheapest one) probably the same carrier. They were a bit tight, they would fit if I pushed hard but I took a knife and made the grooves just a bit deeper. Not sure yours are tight in the same place. But that was a 2min fix, and they are working wonderfully well. Both the pads and rims show no signs of wear after 2500km.
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Old 05-19-19, 06:57 PM
  #420  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
I'm not sure that this is right. An aerodynamic profile can maintain laminar flow and inhibit initiation of turbulent flow. But once the flow is turbulent, the game is up. I haven't seen any data to suggest that an aerodynamic profile can actually take turbulent flow and force it to become laminar. If there are any aeronautical engineers peering at this thread, maybe they could clarify?
Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
If you are right about using a deeper front wheel than rear wheel, every manufacturer has it wrong. I doubt that's the case.
I'd say equal or deeper rear rim has a lot to do with looks.
Choose the deepest front that you can handle. If you can afford only one wheel, get a front one first (poor man's setup).
Then for the rear you just match the front, or if available get the deepest one because that won't affect handling anyway.

I'd have something like Venn Var 77 on both wheels but LB only makes 56 so far. If they did an 80x30mm rim and I could only have one set I'd get 56/80, and as soon as money allowed, get another front wheel, so when there's not much wind I'd go 80/80, and windy days swap the front wheel only.

Then, last thing, I'd buy a 56 rear one for hilly rides. Or maybe not. And yes, that 56 I use for climbing as well, they are light enough at 1460g.

Anyway, 56's are great as a pair already, but as soon as LB has something deeper I'm ordering.
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Old 05-20-19, 06:53 AM
  #421  
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For those who have had these wheels for a couple of weeks now: how are they holding up? How true are they staying after a few weeks of riding?

Post the conditions you have been riding in as well: Bad roads, lots of bumps? Wet weather?

Thanks!
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Old 05-20-19, 08:39 AM
  #422  
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Originally Posted by maartendc View Post
For those who have had these wheels for a couple of weeks now: how are they holding up? How true are they staying after a few weeks of riding?

Post the conditions you have been riding in as well: Bad roads, lots of bumps? Wet weather?

Thanks!
3 weeks of riding them, about 700kms, on decent roads, but we have a lot of crappy 'speed breakers', which are small steep humps in series. I hit them at reasonable speed, and wheels have held up and remained true. I like them so far. A lot.
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Old 05-20-19, 09:11 AM
  #423  
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Originally Posted by maartendc View Post
For those who have had these wheels for a couple of weeks now: how are they holding up? How true are they staying after a few weeks of riding?

Post the conditions you have been riding in as well: Bad roads, lots of bumps? Wet weather?

Thanks!
I have the 56mm hoops and DT350 cl disc hubs, with almost 2k miles on them so far. The wheels are still perfect(spokes are evenly tensioned), and the hubs now spin freely. At first there was quite a bit of drag in the freehub(tight seals), and it took about 400 miles before the seals wore in..

The roads in the Phoenix area are usually good, but a few sections of road(usually at intersections) are quite torn up. With 30mm Schwalbe G-One Speed tires @60psi, I roll right through the roughest pavement without any discomfort.
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Old 05-21-19, 07:40 AM
  #424  
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Originally Posted by Ericoschmitt View Post
I installed 25mm gp5k on my 56LB with ZERO sealant, they work just fine! I'll only add some when I get the first flat.
I have no experience with tubeless, but isn't the point to have some sealant in there to seal up the small punctures?


Originally Posted by maartendc View Post
For those who have had these wheels for a couple of weeks now: how are they holding up? How true are they staying after a few weeks of riding?

Post the conditions you have been riding in as well: Bad roads, lots of bumps? Wet weather?

Thanks!
Three centuries on mine, riding 200+mpw, not sure how many miles I've put on them, but a lot, and quickly lol I have nailed several potholes at 30+mph, and I've had one low speed crash, still true, no issues at all. I'm 185lbs with decent power and I ride hard, they're doing great!!
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Old 05-21-19, 08:04 AM
  #425  
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Originally Posted by Rides4Beer View Post
I have no experience with tubeless, but isn't the point to have some sealant in there to seal up the small punctures?
Well... Yes. But if the tires seal without any sealant, while you don't get a puncture you don't have to have sealant in there drying up without any use, because when you finally get a puncture, if its long enough, you have forgotten that the sealant was dry in there... So you might have to unscrew the valve core and add some anyway. That or check like.. monthly I guess.

But I gave up on that. I carry a 60ml sealant bottle around in my saddle bag, even if there's already sealant in the tires. As well as a Topeak survival box, tube, patches, hammer, anvil, welding machine, everything. Ok, only true up to the patches. You never know, I rather have it all inside a saddle bag and never worry.

So on my gravel bike, which does have some sealant inside, I stopped checking if it's dry. I will only add some the day I get a flat that doesn't seal because there's no liquid. Following the same thought, I haven't added any to my road bike yet since the tires are new.

I will add during races, and then suck it all off with a syringe through the valve after the event. During a training ride I don't mind getting a flat and fixing it in a couple minutes, plus it won't spill on my frame and my ass during the ride - I can wait it work before resume riding. And probably, after that I'll suck the excess off when back at home.

I once opened my tubeless tires and scrapped all the dry sealant off it after a few months. There was some 60g of dry latex there already and I'm a weight weenie... So why bother with that? Just ride without sealant if there's no hole to be fixed.
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