Jean_TX

My bike slid out while cornering on a really rough chip-seal road. The roads in my area are all coated with this despicable chip-seal, so I’m thinking about replacing my Conti 4000S tires with something that has better cornering grip – both wet and dry.

I’ve read Jan Heine’s rationale for tires with some tread having better cornering grip (https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/...nt-stick-well/ ), and I’ve seen mentions in VeloNews about some treaded tires cornering better in testing.

Has anyone gone from slick road tires to road tires with some tread and found that the cornering is more secure? If so, what brand of tires are/were you using?

TIA

fietsbob

problem with chip seal is all you are using is the tips of the stones for grip.

some of the smoothest miles of roads I' ve been on is in Northern Ireland,
and when I remarked on it , I was told 'Its for the Motorcycle Races'..

namely the Northwest 200 I was on my Touring bike on long wearing utility tires from Finland..


might need a fatter tire for a larger contact patch & it may not fit your bike frame..
Mr Heine sells Tires He has made for his company now called Rene Herse

79pmooney

Have you tried the Vittoria G+ and G 2.0s? Or even the Vittoria Controls? Or the older (now I believe discontinued but should still be around) Open Paves? Dry roads and chip-seal - the regular G+ are sweet! Good in the wet but not the old Vittoria Open Paves.

I rode the Open Paves as my winter and rain tire for years, especially on days with wet mountain descents. The G+ are not as good n the wet but far better for not picking up road debris, roll faster and last far longer. The 2.0s are supposed to be the next step up. The Controls, also G 2.0s, are supposed to be the next generation grippy tire.

The G+ tires are completely the step up that Vittoria promises in their ads. The graphene, as used by Vittoria is a game changer. I always said that tire properties (rolling resistance, cut and flat resistance, grip, reliability, weight and cost added up to a immovable number. The manufacturer could tailor certain characteristics but always at the cost of others. G+ raised that immovable number. Soon all the major tire manufacturers will be on board and we will all win. The G+ (and I presume the G 2.) are expensive but they outlast the comparable earlier tires by a lot.

Now, if you really want the best cornering, get those tires as tubulars. I ride clinchers with tubes. The 2.0 are tubeless ready. I hear from a BFer who knows race tires well that these tubulars are the same step up that good tubulars have always been. (In my early clincher days I lost grip and crashed on a wet downhill corner I knew well that training tubulars would get me around no sweat every time. An innocent young woman heard me say "f***!) in a really loud voice as I started to slip and knew exactly what I was in for. Didin't see her until the word was out. The crash was just what I knew it would be.)

When my new roof is paid off, I'm going tubular. Back to the tires I rode 20 years and love.

Ben

Aubergine 

datlas 

Dean V

There is nothing wrong with the grip of GP4000s. You are not going to gain anything significant from switching to a different tyre.
As always you just need to ride according to the conditions.

MinnMan

OP - can you specify your tire width and pressure? As @Fiestbob said, the size of the contact patch is key.

CliffordK

The Michelin Protek Cross Max are some of the grippiest of the tires that I've used, but they don't come in extremely narrow widths. I was impressed in their sure footedness on slushy pavement.

I think the Marathon Plus tires (available in 700x25) are also pretty grippy.

Unfortunately, neither of those are super sporty tires. Although, they would represent a class of tires with moderate (deep) thread, and a fairly soft (and quick wearing) rubber compound.

I'm still experimenting. I like my Gator Hardshells. Long wearing, but not necessarily grippy.

I can't say about dealing with loose gravel, but most of the chipseal around here is pretty well packed.

Iride01 

It's going to be more in your riding technique and awareness about what your tires are actually going over at the moment you turn than the tire itself. Wider tires run at the proper pressure for your riding weight will probably make more difference than tread pattern.

Bandera

Rough chip seal roads require a reasonably supple tire (as you already have) fitted in the widest width that clears your F/F and inflated to the lowest pressure that does not cause pinch flats for the best compliance/handling. Trial and (inevitably) error will reveal your best pressure F&R , but the tried & true Berto method will get you there or about w/ the least guess work.

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/...ure-take-home/

Calm confident bike handling on our lovely chip seal at pace comes only with lots of seat time, a proper machine's fit/tire set-up, relaxed/firm control inputs, looking where the machine needs to go and letting it go there.
No magic brands or models of tire here, just personal preference derived from decades of experience riding the chip seal at pace.

-Bandera

canklecat

Ditto, the tire pressure recommendation. Makes a big difference in handling and secure feeling, without feeling sluggish. Takes some experimenting to find the right pressure. I'll usually start out new tires at or near maximum pressure, then bleed out a bit during stops on the first couple of rides until it feels right. Then I'll check the pressure later at home and use that. For me, at 155 lbs, it's usually well below max pressure.

If you don't mind spending a bit more, the Specialized Turbo and Roubaix tires might be the ticket. I've ridden a set of older Specialized tires with a tiny bit of tread and texture, with their thinnest puncture shield, and those tires are sweet. Comfy on chip seal but smooth rolling and grippy. The set is so old the gumwalls are crackled (might be faux-gumwall, I'm not sure), but the tires are in good shape overall. I'm saving them for special occasions.

I've been satisfied with Conti's low priced Ultra Sport II on both road bikes in 700x23 and 700x25. No problems on typical Texas chip seal, smooth asphalt, striated concrete, etc. -- but I do watch carefully for sandy debris. That's what'll git ya -- those little patches of sand and tiny bits of gravel. I've had a few yikes moments but no crashes. Yet.

But if you're not happy with the Conti 4000s the Ultra Sport 2 wouldn't be any better.

Alas, the only way I've found to get sure footed grip on fast turns with loose sand and tiny gravel patches is to switch to tires with some texture, a little file tread like the Continental Sport Contact II (renamed the Contact Speed, but the same tire). They're grippy and puncture resistant, but I found the ride harsh at full pressure and sluggish at lower pressure. I tried 'em for a few months over the winter but they're back in the closet after 500 miles. No punctures, no slips even in rain, and they do wear well. But they felt slow and were slow. You get what you pay for. I'll keep 'em for an errand or commuter bike.

The best combo of sure footed grip, comfort on chip seal and remarkably fast ride is the Continental Speed Ride. But it's available only in 700x42. Too bad because it rides much better than the $20 price would indicate. But I love those tires on my hybrid.

The next closest thing is the Continental Cyclocross Speed, now named the Speed King CX. Great tire but only in 700x35 or x32, I think -- Continental hasn't updated the specs section since renaming the tire. If I had a gravel, CX or endurance bike, those are the tires I'd put on 'em for all around use, including rural paved roads like chip seal.

jpescatore

Another vote for tire width and pressure being more important on dry roads than tread. After I moved to 32mm tires and 80 psi, I've had fewer flats and less need for tread on my road bike tires. On wet roads, different story - but lots of chip and seal around here and I don't see difference on dry roads between my new Continental GP5000s, the Bontrager AW3s before them or even the stock completely slick R2s the bike came with. I weighe 230 lbs, so the sheer force of gravity is helping me...

For my touring bike where I might be forced to ride in worse weather, I use Schwalbe Marathon's - if you want tread on your tires but still decent rolling resistance, those are my choice.

popeye

A good craftsman never blames his tools.

caloso

I agree with 79pmooney: the new Vittorias are pretty amazing. That said, the tires you have now are excellent.

GlennR

Adjust your tire pressure.

rubiksoval

I race pro/1 crits on GP4ks. I've found nothing better wet or dry, and my races routinely involve very aggressive 30+ mph cornering.

If you need better grip with those, I'd suggest checking tire pressure, bike position, and how you're setting up for a turn.

Sy Reene

A general question, in the sense that most bike tire companies actually seem to differentiate the "grip" capability of their upper level tires.
Eg Various snapshots below,
Michelin the Power competition best at Dry grip. the all-Seasons pretty great all round
Conti's "competition" tire, has an obvious texture you don't see in eg. the 5000s
Vitttoria's heatmap shows the Corsa Control best at grip
So it does seem, that if priority is grip, there tend to be better choices from the manufactures than the normal all-rounders that people all recommend.

canklecat

That Continental Competition tire has the same tread pattern as the Contact Speed (formerly the Sport Contact II), so it should grip well. But it's extremely expensive and specialized, and the rolling resistance site indicates it doesn't perform much better than the much less expensive Sport Contact II, although it's difficult to compare tubs and clinchers, and the demands of racers vs we mere mortals.

I notice the rolling resistance site tested the Sport Contact II at the 700x37 size. Mine are the 700x32, wire bead. It's possible the narrowest 700x28 in folding bead might be a reasonable compromise in weight and rolling resistance in a puncture resistant and durable tire with good grip. I can definitely vouch for the grip and puncture resistance.

rubiksoval

I bought a pair of the powercomps two years ago since they were considered comparable to the gp4ks but 30g or so lighter. I was doing this big crit in Ohio and when I tried to jump across to a break, I hit a turn at 33 mph, had my front wheel stutter as it lost traction, and ended up sitting up and going off onto a sidewalk. Last race I used that tire on. Back to the gp4ks and nary a problem since.

rubiksoval

It's not difficult to compare. Conti tubulars are significantly slower than others because they use butyl tubes. At least for sale to the public. The discerning eye may notice that pros use the competition ltd., which is not available to the public, which has latex tubes and much better rolling resistance.

Jean_TX

Thanks for replying to my request for "grippier" tire suggestions. I hadn't thought of the Vittoria tires, but after reading your posting I looked at their website and the tires are definite candidates when I replace my current tires.

Jean_TX

Thanks for your suggestions. I just looked at the tires you mentioned and they seem more rugged than what I'm looking for on my "fast" road bike, but they would be great for my "sorta" gravel bike.

Jean_TX

Thanks for your tire suggestions. The Specialized tires you mentioned look like good candidates for my use. My bike has very little rear tire clearance and the Conti tires would probably be too wide.

Jean_TX

Thanks for posting the informative snapshots! They provide info I can use . (The tread on that "Competition Tire" is surprising.)

rubiksoval

What's surprising? You're totally missing the point of your problems.

Look at race car and race motorcycle tires:

https://www.dunlopracing.com/product/slicks/

Completely slick and cornering at 100+ mph.