Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Rainman slaps Garmin

Old 06-13-19, 04:43 AM
  #26  
Sy Reene
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Originally Posted by dalava View Post
Life360 can track you by your wife if you carry a phone with you anyway. I tried the LiveTracking on Garmin but stopped using it for the exact reason you described - who wants to stop in the middle of group ride.
I've never tried Garmin's livetracking. I guess I don't see the point of using a service from the device, that's going to have to route thru and rely on the phone anyway? Just run an app directly on the phone and skip the extra point of possible failure. fwiw, the RoadID app seems to work fine and is simple.
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Old 06-13-19, 04:44 AM
  #27  
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DCRM is right in stating that most Wahoo folks bought the Bolt or Elemnt because of issues with Garmin. When researching which computer I should by for my wife and I. All of the issues people bring up about Garmin software totally turned me off and we went with Bolts and we couldn’t be happier. Outside of one issue where an update reset our main screen settings it’s been flawless.
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Old 06-13-19, 06:17 AM
  #28  
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Add me to the list of those who dumped Garmin and moved to Wahoo due to software issues. The unit I had simply never worked correctly. Garmin seems to be especially bad when using a Mac. No issues using the Wahoo.
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Old 06-13-19, 06:39 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by dalava View Post
I fail to grasp the point of this post. Far as I can see, this has not turned into a Garmin bug rant vs "I've never had a problem with my Garmin" thread.
My point is that the topic doesn't deserve a 3800 word manifesto.

It is old news, Garmin isn't going to listen and it's entire purpose is to create controversy and thereby drive page views.


-Tim-
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Old 06-13-19, 07:12 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
My point is that the topic doesn't deserve a 3800 word manifesto.

It is old news, Garmin isn't going to listen and it's entire purpose is to create controversy and thereby drive page views.


-Tim-
isn't that how he keeps his page going? He has to keep on posting to say relevant.....guys gotta eat
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Old 06-13-19, 07:32 AM
  #31  
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I see no controversy. Garmin has had a shoddy track record with regards to their software pretty much ever since they started making bike computers. Everybody knows it. And they could get away with it for a long time, because as far as GPS units were concerned, they were the only game in town. Well, Garmin is in the middle of an ocean of competitors now. Wahoo has only been in the game for a few years and already has superior software to Garmin. Bryton makes rock solid computers for less than half of Garmin money.

But Tim is right. Garmin won't listen, because they don't care. They have more options for runners and golfers than they do for cyclists. They make their real money on GPS units for airplanes and boats.
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Old 06-13-19, 08:17 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
My point is that the topic doesn't deserve a 3800 word manifesto.

It is old news, Garmin isn't going to listen and it's entire purpose is to create controversy and thereby drive page views.


-Tim-
It really depends on your point of view.

If you have decided "Garmin isn't going to listen", sure then it is of no value to you.

But for me, DCRM calling out Garmin on their software issue is very important precisely because he's got the audience, and I hope that Garmin may listen this time. Certainly Garmin hasn't listened to people like you and me historically.

To all those who ditched Garmin for Wahoo or others, it may work fine for cycling, but as an ecosystem of apps and multiple devices for multisport, e.g. triathlon, Garmin is still pretty much the only game in town.
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Old 06-13-19, 08:40 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
My point is that the topic doesn't deserve a 3800 word manifesto.

It is old news, Garmin isn't going to listen and it's entire purpose is to create controversy and thereby drive page views.


-Tim-
Kinda like many of your threads here I kid!!!
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Old 06-13-19, 09:01 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by dalava View Post
To all those who ditched Garmin for Wahoo or others, it may work fine for cycling, but as an ecosystem of apps and multiple devices for multisport, e.g. triathlon, Garmin is still pretty much the only game in town.
Have you looked at the Polar Vantage?

https://titaniumgeek.com/polar-vanta...garmin-killer/


-Tim-
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Old 06-13-19, 09:29 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Have you looked at the Polar Vantage?

https://titaniumgeek.com/polar-vanta...garmin-killer/


-Tim-
Yes... they are like 10 years behind in watches
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Old 06-13-19, 10:11 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
I've never tried Garmin's livetracking. I guess I don't see the point of using a service from the device, that's going to have to route thru and rely on the phone anyway? Just run an app directly on the phone and skip the extra point of possible failure. fwiw, the RoadID app seems to work fine and is simple.
The point of doing it that way is to leave your phone's GPS off while you ride since you're running one anyway. To save your phone's battery.
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Old 06-13-19, 11:24 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
The point of doing it that way is to leave your phone's GPS off while you ride since you're running one anyway. To save your phone's battery.
In theory and if it worked correctly, you would have zero need to do any manual adjustments to a phone. The Garmin should pair once and stay paired and re-connect each and every time the phone and device see each other, for both the section that uses BT for Garmin Connect Mobile as well as the BLE that ports text messages, etc... Live Track, which is DC’s main beef, uses BT up to Connect and onward as an e-mail to a desired follower to allow a track. The BT connection that Garmin uses is flaky and Garmin seemingly doesn’t care, is one major complaint.

My 1000 seemed to do the BT BLE connection every time with no need for any manual input on my iPhone. Since the prior iOS update, that function will longer do an automatic connection. I reported it via a tech call to Garmin and that wanted me to jump thru hoops to provide them with logs off the device etc... I’m guessing it’s a known issue at Garmin and they just don’t want to provide the technical resources to resolve such issues, which is what DC is getting at, that Garmin seems to see this end of the business as small change.

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Old 06-13-19, 11:26 AM
  #38  
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Classic Garmin: My 1030 uploaded immediately to my iPhone at the end of my ride on Tuesday and Wednesday. Today, even after an hour, my Garmin Connect app says, "What ride? What 1030? tough crap."
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Old 06-13-19, 11:56 AM
  #39  
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My phone is my lifeline, but the battery life rapidly degrades when GPS is left on, so I consider LiveTrack a core feature of my Edge 520. I've had numerous LiveTrack issues with the 520 since I bought it last year, probably hit with every single outage that affected anyone else. It boggles the mind that Garmin have broken it so many times. I kept APK backups of versions of the Connect app that worked, except a few months back they changed it to require backend access to the LiveTrack contacts, and there hasn't been a stable version trustworthy enough to keep since. After maybe a month of it continuously being broken, the most recent version seems to work, but I have no expectations for how long that will be.

Most of my bike sensors are Wahoo, so I don't any ties that would keep me with the Garmin ecosystem for future purchases. I wouldn't have picked the 520 for my head unit had I not gone with what a coworker used -- it turned out he didn't use any features on his (not even navigation), which is exactly the opposite of how I use mine. Really it was just that single point of reference and the color screen that swung me to Garmin over Wahoo.
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Old 06-13-19, 12:20 PM
  #40  
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My Edge 800 works better now that I upgraded the firmware. The thing that boggles my mind is if the unit crashes, any data collected is just gone. I rode 375 miles (plus 8 bonus miles) over the weekend. I tried to reset the unit at 300 miles, but it just beeped at me. That was a bit annoying. When I got to about 10 miles from the end of my ride, the unit locked up.

I tried using data recovery software on the sd card, but I don't seem to have had any joy.

The thing that really confuses me is that now I want an 830. I spent $300 on this piece of junk, that really has only worked right about 20 percent of the time. And that's being generous. It has the software quality of a freshman comp sci student project. Now I'm proposing to spend another $300 on a new piece of junk which will no doubt also fail me.
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Old 06-13-19, 12:32 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
This will inevitably turn into a Garmin bug rant vs "I've never had a problem with my Garmin" thread.

What I find more interesting however, is that rainmaker would post a 3800 word essay/analysis of Garmin's business practices complete with custom photography, pie charts, whitty quips and in depth analysis as if this is somehow a topic worthy of such an epic work.

I don't think a paid consultant would provide a quality analysis such as this.


-Tim-

Garmin knows pretty much everyone will read his reviews on whatever device they plan to purchase.

He is in a position to catalyze some change, and not being on a payroll allows him to say what he thinks, rather than what he thinks they want to hear.
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Old 06-13-19, 12:44 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I do think DCR is right on this one. I've seen it many times on this forum. The main reason people buy Wahoo, etc, is because they're tired of their Garmin.

He gets units early from Garmin and info too. I'm a little surprised he'd publish this.
I think even DCR is a bit tired of the paying Public Beta tester culture. Maybe DCR calling them out will change what they do. Some of the GPS products are much better maintained--their marine SatNav systems for example.

Of course....Garmin's map of my neighborhood has had a non-continuous street for over a decade and they haven't fixed it. Not only on Edge units, but also car in-dash.
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Old 06-13-19, 03:20 PM
  #43  
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I had a Garmin GPSMAP 492 color chart plotter on my boat for years and was very happy with it. Much better and more user-friendly interface than the Raymarine unit I replaced. So Garmin does have it in them. Maybe it's easier when not so constrained by size, weight, and limited battery power available. The chart plotter had a simple wired NMEA output to send course and position data to my radar display, but no Bluetooth or other finicky wireless technology to cause problems.
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Old 06-13-19, 04:09 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
The point of doing it that way is to leave your phone's GPS off while you ride since you're running one anyway. To save your phone's battery.
I guess, and am the first to admit I don't have a grasp of the technology, but couple questions: 1) With a garmin doing tracking, is keeping a constantly open BT connection with the phone and transmitting location to it using up the garmin's battery faster?; and 2) For the tracking to get to wherever in the cloud that the person (spouse at home) is going to view progress, isn't the phone constantly having to transmit data somewhere over the mobile data connection (using up some amount of extra battery anyway)? I get that this uses less battery than GPS though.

FWIW, using RoadId type of phone app has not been an issue with my 2yr old iPhone SE even on 6 hour trips. Screen is off of course and phone is just tucked in a jersey pocket. YMMV
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Old 06-13-19, 04:47 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
I guess, and am the first to admit I don't have a grasp of the technology, but couple questions: 1) With a garmin doing tracking, is keeping a constantly open BT connection with the phone and transmitting location to it using up the garmin's battery faster?; and 2) For the tracking to get to wherever in the cloud that the person (spouse at home) is going to view progress, isn't the phone constantly having to transmit data somewhere over the mobile data connection (using up some amount of extra battery anyway)? I get that this uses less battery than GPS though.
1. Yes. With my 520+ it is two way, GPS data to the phone, some phone data to the 520 (call and text notifications). Yes the Garmin is transmitting which does draw battery power, I don't know how much.
2. Yes the phone is transmitting the location data it receives from the Garmin to the phone network via the data connection. I've not noticed any appreciable difference on my phone battery. The phone is always communicating with cell towers anyway, the Garmin app and the data transfer certainly take some power but doesn't appear to be a lot, at least in my case.

My phone's GPS OTOH does significantly increase battery draw.

I have an iPhone 7 FYI.
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Old 06-13-19, 05:24 PM
  #46  
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Things that drain phones the most: screen, GPS, and transferring massive amounts of data (especially over weak signal). Bluetooth connections and kilobytes of data are far down the list.

My 520 lasts about 10 hrs with navigation, plus a small USB battery pack can add plenty more run time in a pinch. Because I have one of the last flagship phones with a replaceable battery, my phone probably could last that long with GPS turned on if I used its massive replacement phone battery, but I wouldn't get anywhere close with the OEM battery than loses 15% an hour just idling.
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Old 06-13-19, 05:33 PM
  #47  
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until pretty recently wahoo didn't even have an interval builder which was a nonstarter at my time of purchase between the 520 and bolt. I'm using the 520 now and my GF uses a bolt and both are flawless
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Old 06-14-19, 07:45 AM
  #48  
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I'm new to cycling (at least the tech part of it). All the negative comments about Garmin software have meant that I'll be buying a Wahoo instead. So it's lost them at least one sale.
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Old 06-14-19, 12:03 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
I think even DCR is a bit tired of the paying Public Beta tester culture. Maybe DCR calling them out will change what they do. Some of the GPS products are much better maintained--their marine SatNav systems for example.

Of course....Garmin's map of my neighborhood has had a non-continuous street for over a decade and they haven't fixed it. Not only on Edge units, but also car in-dash.

Using the public to beta test their products is a business decision they have made.

Garmin has chosen to sell products which don't meet the implied warranty of merchantablity.

If they listen then good for them. If they don't then good riddance. Either way, there are many of us who choose not to do business with companies who intentionally sell products which they know have a good chance of not working as advertised. DC Rainmaker can be tired of it be we who have chosen other products have nothing to be tired of because we refused to play that game.

I don't know why people continue to put up with being treated like this.


-Tim-

Last edited by TimothyH; 06-14-19 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 06-14-19, 01:06 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Using the public to beta test their products is a business decision they have made.

Garmin has chosen to sell products which don't meet the implied warranty of merchantablity.

If they listen then good for them. If they don't then good riddance. Either way, there are many of us who choose not to do business with companies who intentionally sell products which they know have a good chance of not working as advertised. DC Rainmaker can be tired of it be we who have chosen other products have nothing to be tired of because we refused to play that game.

I don't know why people continue to put up with being treated like this.


-Tim-
TBF, Wahoo had almost an entire lineup of KICKR Core trainers fail and tried to cover it up, everything from electronics to bearings and people getting multiple duds
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