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-   -   Noob Question about Bike Lanes (https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/1191602-noob-question-about-bike-lanes.html)

Metallifan33 01-10-20 08:03 AM

Noob Question about Bike Lanes
 
So, I'm planning my ride for the weekend, and there's this pretty sweet 20 mile loop near my house that has a bike lane for almost all of it. There's a .5 mile stretch that doesn't.
Being a noob who so far has only stuck to riding in my neighborhood, I'm a bit anxious about riding on a road with no bike lane (I stay conservative on where I ride given my experience level). The speed limit here is 45 MPH.
My question is, would you guys ride on the shoulder here?
Do you take the speed limit of the road into consideration?
I notice there's a bigger shoulder on the opposite side (should I ride wrong way there?).
Or am I being a wuss and should I just shut up and ride on the shoulder?
Just wondering as I don't know anyone who cycles unfortunately.

FWIW, there's a double yellow, so technically, a car wouldn't be able to pass me.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...658470d49c.jpg

WhyFi 01-10-20 08:14 AM

Looks like good visibility and it's only a half-mile, I'd just ride it. I'd prolly haul ass, but I'd ride it.

Caveat: I have no knowledge of the traffic. If someone familiar with the road were to say that it's a heavily traveled road and/or not terribly courteous drivers, then I might reconsider.

MoAlpha 01-10-20 08:25 AM

There appears to be no shoulder there, just an 8" strip with a raised curb and unrideable stuff on the other side. You really need to give keep a safe margin from that stuff, in case you need to avoid an obstacle when there's a motor vehicle to your left, to name one scenario. Others will have different opinions, but what I would do is ride at least 3' away from that raised strip and deep enough into the carriageway to make it clear that you are not intending to split the lane and that anyone intending to pass is going to have to move left across the center line. It may feel dangerous, but it's the safest way to handle the situation in my opinion and I bet drivers are going to be understanding and polite on the whole. Going the wrong way on the other side is a ****ty option under any circumstances and I wouldn't consider it on a road like this with great sightlines and light traffic.

As a new rider in this situation, you are at no greater risk than a veteran. Enjoy and let us know if you don't survive!

Metallifan33 01-10-20 08:29 AM


Originally Posted by MoAlpha (Post 21278151)
As a new rider in this situation, you are at no greater risk than a veteran. Enjoy and let us know if you don't survive!

Lol! Thanks! Upon further review, it's a lot shorter of a stretch than the .5 mile I was thinking. It's more of a quarter mile if that.

msu2001la 01-10-20 08:34 AM

What's up with the trail on the left? I'd probably ride that.

WhyFi 01-10-20 08:34 AM


Originally Posted by MoAlpha (Post 21278151)
There appears to be no shoulder there, just an 8" strip with a raised curb and unrideable stuff on the other side. You really need to give keep a safe margin from that stuff, in case you need to avoid an obstacle when there's a motor vehicle to your left, to name one scenario. Others will have different opinions, but what I would do is ride at least 3' away from that raised strip and deep enough into the carriageway to make it clear that you are not intending to split the lane and that anyone intending to pass is going to have to move left across the center line. It may feel dangerous, but it's the safest way to handle the situation in my opinion and I bet drivers are going to be understanding and polite on the whole. Going the wrong way on the other side is a ****ty option under any circumstances and I wouldn't consider it on a road like this with great sightlines and light traffic.

As a new rider in this situation, you are at no greater risk than a veteran. Enjoy and let us know if you don't survive!

+1. Yeah, I didn't mention that, but as above, give yourself a margin/don't encourage a squeeze. This is probably most important when there's oncoming traffic at the same time as being overtaken.


Originally Posted by Metallifan33 (Post 21278159)
Lol! Thanks! Upon further review, it's a lot shorter of a stretch than the .5 mile I was thinking. It's more of a quarter mile if that.

Good sprint training opportunity. ;)

Metallifan33 01-10-20 08:40 AM


Originally Posted by msu2001la (Post 21278162)
What's up with the trail on the left? I'd probably ride that.

Interesting that you brought that up, as it reminds me of another question I had.
To answer yours, I would take it but it doesn't join back to the road for another 3 miles at which point I'd have to cross over a median to get back to the right side.

If there is a Paved (cement) trail along a route, do you guys ride on the paved trail or on the road? Here is a pic a bit farther down the road with the paved trail on the right. My issue with the paved trail is I don't want to be zipping by at 20 mph with kids and strollers on it.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8238756ae4.jpg

MoAlpha 01-10-20 08:40 AM

Let me add that I'd love have that road to ride on.

datlas 01-10-20 08:44 AM


Originally Posted by MoAlpha (Post 21278179)
Let me add that I'd love have that road to ride on.


Originally Posted by Metallifan33 (Post 21278177)
Interesting that you brought that up, as it reminds me of another question I had.
To answer yours, I would take it but it doesn't join back to the road for another 3 miles at which point I'd have to cross over a median to get back to the right side.

If there is a Paved (cement) trail along a route, do you guys ride on the paved trail or on the road? Here is a pic a bit farther down the road with the paved trail on the right. My issue with the paved trail is I don't want to be zipping by at 20 mph with kids and strollers on it.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8238756ae4.jpg

Agree with comment above. Looks perfect.

If the trail is mostly empty, I would ride it. If the trail is full of walkers and kids, etc. I would ride the shoulder.

bbbean 01-10-20 08:46 AM

Take the lane. Position yourself in the center of the lane, ride predictably, and obey all applicable laws. It's safe and legal.

https://cyclingsavvy.org/road-cycling/

MoAlpha 01-10-20 08:47 AM


Originally Posted by Metallifan33 (Post 21278177)
Interesting that you brought that up, as it reminds me of another question I had.
To answer yours, I would take it but it doesn't join back to the road for another 3 miles at which point I'd have to cross over a median to get back to the right side.

If there is a paved trail along a route, do you guys ride on the paved trail or on the road? Here is a pic a bit farther down the road with the paved trail on the right. My issue with the paved trail is I don't want to be zipping by at 20 mph with kids and strollers on it.

Road.

Metallifan33 01-10-20 08:48 AM

Yeah, I should add, it is an official bike lane.

noodle soup 01-10-20 09:01 AM


Originally Posted by Metallifan33 (Post 21278125)
So, I'm planning my ride for the weekend, and there's this pretty sweet 20 mile loop near my house that has a bike lane for almost all of it. There's a .5 mile stretch that doesn't.
Being a noob who so far has only stuck to riding in my neighborhood, I'm a bit anxious about riding on a road with no bike lane (I stay conservative on where I ride given my experience level). The speed limit here is 45 MPH.
My question is, would you guys ride on the shoulder here?
Do you take the speed limit of the road into consideration?
I notice there's a bigger shoulder on the opposite side (should I ride wrong way there?).
Or am I being a wuss and should I just shut up and ride on the shoulder?
Just wondering as I don't know anyone who cycles unfortunately.

FWIW, there's a double yellow, so technically, a car wouldn't be able to pass me.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...658470d49c.jpg

I ride on this road nearly every Saturday. That little section near Paloma Parkway is never very busy, and motorists are aware that cyclists are frequently in that area.

noodle soup 01-10-20 09:03 AM


Originally Posted by bbbean (Post 21278193)
Take the lane. Position yourself in the center of the lane, ride predictably, and obey all applicable laws. It's safe and legal.

https://cyclingsavvy.org/road-cycling/

Don't do this.

noodle soup 01-10-20 09:10 AM


Originally Posted by Metallifan33 (Post 21278125)

FWIW, there's a double yellow, so technically, a car wouldn't be able to pass me.

That's not the law here.

"a person driving a motor vehicle may cross the center lane double yellow line if necessary to pass a bicycle and no traffic is approaching from the opposite direction."

https://www.azleg.gov/legtext/51leg/...ls/hb2545p.htm

Metallifan33 01-10-20 09:11 AM


Originally Posted by noodle soup (Post 21278216)
I ride on this road nearly every Saturday. That little section near Paloma Parkway is never very busy, and motorists are aware that cyclists are frequently in that area.

I was wondering if you did!
Good to know that it's not busy (I've only driven it once and didn't notice many cars... it's not like there's a lot of stuff out there).
So do you just ride on the road for the short stretch?
Maybe I'll see you on Saturday ;)

Metallifan33 01-10-20 09:11 AM


Originally Posted by noodle soup (Post 21278229)
That's not the law here.

"a person driving a motor vehicle may cross the center lane double yellow line if necessary to pass a bicycle and no traffic is approaching from the opposite direction."

https://www.azleg.gov/legtext/51leg/...ls/hb2545p.htm

Ah... good information.

noodle soup 01-10-20 09:12 AM


Originally Posted by MoAlpha (Post 21278179)
Let me add that I'd love have that road to ride on.

It's a very popular section of road for cyclists.

topflightpro 01-10-20 09:17 AM

I suggest riding at least a third of the way out into the lane.

This will improve your visibility to motorists, and it will encourage them to cross into the other lane to pass you. I have found that if I am far to the right, motorists will try to pass me while staying in the lane or when cars are oncoming in the other lane. This results in a close and dangerous pass.

By moving farther out, it forces the driver to cross the yellow line, and I have found that in most cases, once motorists commit to crossing, they tend to go really far over the yellow line.

noodle soup 01-10-20 09:24 AM


Originally Posted by Metallifan33 (Post 21278231)
I was wondering if you did!
Good to know that it's not busy (I've only driven it once and didn't notice many cars... it's not like there's a lot of stuff out there).
So do you just ride on the road for the short stretch?
Maybe I'll see you on Saturday ;)

:thumb:I have an 8" reddish grey goatee, so I'm easy to recognize.

Paloma Parkway and DV is 20 miles into our route. We usually travel east on Dove Valley, South on Cave Creek, and then head back west on Deer Valley..

noodle soup 01-10-20 09:27 AM


Originally Posted by topflightpro (Post 21278243)
I suggest riding at least a third of the way out into the lane.

This will improve your visibility to motorists, and it will encourage them to cross into the other lane to pass you. I have found that if I am far to the right, motorists will try to pass me while staying in the lane or when cars are oncoming in the other lane. This results in a close and dangerous pass.

By moving farther out, it forces the driver to cross the yellow line, and I have found that in most cases, once motorists commit to crossing, they tend to go really far over the yellow line.

+1.

This gives us enough room, and forces the motorist to cross the double yellow to pass, without pissing off motorists at the same time.

MoAlpha 01-10-20 09:27 AM


Originally Posted by Metallifan33 (Post 21278198)
Yeah, I should add, it is an official bike lane.

Road.

Metallifan33 01-10-20 09:32 AM


Originally Posted by noodle soup (Post 21278259)
:thumb:I have an 8" reddish grey goatee, so I'm easy to recognize.

Paloma Parkway and DV is 20 miles into our route. We usually travel east on Dove Valley, South on Cave Creek, and then head back west on Deer Valley..

Nice! I'm planning on doing that exact thing. How is the stretch Southbound on Cave Creek around Jomax (where the shoulder narrows a bit?) People drive fast on Cave Creek, so I was a bit concerned about that... but it's encouraging to know other cyclists do it!

noodle soup 01-10-20 09:56 AM


Originally Posted by Metallifan33 (Post 21278274)
Nice! I'm planning on doing that exact thing. How is the stretch Southbound on Cave Creek around Jomax (where the shoulder narrows a bit?) People drive fast on Cave Creek, so I was a bit concerned about that... but it's encouraging to know other cyclists do it!

Cave Creek is fine until you get south of Deer Valley, then it becomes a business area, and the road is often congested..

bbbean 01-10-20 10:15 AM


Originally Posted by noodle soup (Post 21278217)
Don't do this.

Your logic is overwhelming.


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