If I wanted another steel frame I would be tempted to find a NOS or new-ish vintage steel frame, the characteristics I am looking for in steel were available in the old "Italian Masters"
I love my old Columbus tubed-"white-lable" Rossin Record I think it was made in '78 or so (?)

Ordering one of these through the local dealer has been on my mental to-do list for a while now. Reynolds 525 and chromoly fork, which is good enough for me because I'm (still) far from being a competitive cyclist and still have way too much body fat to shed to have the luxury of worrying about shaving a few grams off of the frame here and there. There's a bare frame in two color scheme, or complete options with Tiagra or 105. I'm particularly interested in the Tiagra model because I could easily convert it into a flat bar bike; I had been considering the 105 model earlier, but now that flat bar shifters apparently no longer are part of the 105-7000 range, Tiagra 4700 seems to be the next best option; the market seems to have dried up on old 5800 flat bar shifters (I searched far and wide,) and I'm not even sure if those old 5800 shifters would work with 7000 derailleurs anyhow. So here we are.

I have a 35 y/o or so Simoncini; it was my first real bike. I love it so I bought a Cinelli Supercorsa that I ride all the time. But now my new XCr will take over.


Simoncini, my first real bike

I've had an Independent Fabrication frame since 2007, and I thnk it's wonderful.
I also highly recomend Peter Mooney, a frame builder in Belmont, MA.

https://www.peter-mooney.com

The stainless one looks like it was made by Cicli Barco. It has the same seat tube clamp design that is unique to Barco XCr bikes. You can also see it on the Cinelli XCr. It is an English company but their bikes are handmade in Italy. They do not say that they make them.

+1 Marinoni. Check out the SL at their website marinoni.qc.ca

I like the value there, but then I look at what you had mentioned - Ribble. Full 105 build on a Reynolds 725 frameset for around $1,200 USD. Pretty amazing value.

I'm leaning towards this combo:

Soma Smoothie
https://www.somafab.com/archives/product/smoothie

Whiskey no 7 straight fork
https://whiskyparts.co/forks/no7-rd-straight

The geo of the regular Soma Smoothie matches me best I believe at a 52CM. I am coming from a 2015 Specialized Roubaix SL4 Expert. On longer rides I feel like I am just too stretched out in front.
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/ro...expert/p/65415

Debating between the regular Smoothie and the ES (endurance Smoothie), but I am not sure about the geometry of the ES.
https://www.somafab.com/archives/product/es

Groupset - I would go for Shimano 105 R7000,
https://www.merlincycles.com/shimano...et-118524.html

Wheelset - thinking of going DT Swiss - Merlin's has a decent deal. Lightweight clinchers:
https://www.merlincycles.com/dt-swis...0c-108391.html

Seatpost I can throw in my current FSA Carbon SL-K (i think that is what it is)

Bars and stem can be aluminum tbh i'm good with that.

I can fit 28s as per Soma, so that's cool.

Any input would be greatly appreciated. TY

Oh for sure- the Jamis is a strong value and the Ribble is a screaming value.

Looks like a neat project! Below is some details on fork options between the two frames.

If you get the regular Smoothie, then the Whiskey No7 fork or Ritchey WCS fork would work well since both align with the Axle to Crown and caliper reach the frame was designed around.
https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=93690 Whiskey no7 straight is $370 retail and $314.50 plus free shipping with discount
https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=94801 Ritchey WCS in 46mm rake is $300 retail and $339.96 plus free shipping with discount
https://www.interlocracing.com/shop/...rbon-road-3564 There is also this IRD Mosaic fork which is a house brand of Merry Sales, who also owns the Soma brand. Its has carbon forks and a metal steerer, but has multiple rakes and is less expensive at $240.

If you get the Smoothie ES, then the Whiskey no7+ fork would work well since it is built for longer reach brakes with the Axle to Crown a bit longer than the regular no7 fork.
https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=89493 Whiskey no7+ straight is $420 retail and $357 plus free shipping with discount.
https://www.somafabshop.com/shop/pro...3&category=975 IRD Mosaic has a longer reach fork in multiple rakes for the Smoothie ES too. Again, carbon forks and a metal steerer and it costs $300 retail and can be found for $240 online. The tire clearance is limited to 28mm though.

The Universal Cycles discount codes currently in effect are thru 3/16. They change every week and are easily available by just signing up for their online newsletter.
CatKindle10: 10% off orders over $100
CatKindle15: 15% off orders over $300


As for sizing, I have no idea. You mention a 52cm Smoothie, but not the size of your Specialized. If you have a 52cm Specialized, then the Smoothie will stretch you out more.since reach is longer and stack is lower between the two 52cm frames. List what your current frame size is and it could help clarify.

Is shimano shipping from the UK again? In any case I'd up the budget a bit to get silver Centaur. I prefer campy shifting and the look of silver components on a steel frame.

Merlin has been an exception for some reason. I doubt its because they are too small to be noticed, so the Merlin owners probably have something on the heads at Shimano.
joking...kind of.

thanks for providing the links! Yes sorry. I do have a 52cm Roubaix. Didn't see the reach measurement.

I thought given the top tube being shorter on the Smoothie, I would be okay.

The 52cm Smoothie has 17mm less stack and is 9mm longer reach than your Specialized Roubaix. It will stretch you out more, assuming you use all the same components.
The 51cm Smoothie ES has 2mm less stack and 1mm less reach than your Specialized Roubaix, which is nearly the same. Additionally, the BB drop, HTA, STA, and chainstay lengths are all almost identical to your Roubaix. Your Roubiax has 59mm of trail when using 25mm tires. The Smoothie ES with the no7+ fork and 32mm tires would have 65mm of trail. This would mean steering feels slightly less twitchy/fast with the ES. It would also mean the bike would feel slightly more stable at speed(because the fork would 'self correct' a little bit more and want to go straight the faster you ride). The difference is only 6mm of trail and that isnt massive, but it can be noticed.

You could make up for the feeling of being too stretched out by swapping the stock 90mm stem on your Roubaix to an 80mm stem on the Smoothie ES, and also swap the 75mm reach Roubaix drop bars for something with less reach like the Whiskey no7 6f bars that have 67mm of reach or the Zipp Service Course 70 with 70mm or reach.
https://whiskyparts.co/handlebars/no.7-6f-drop-bar
https://www.zipp.com/bars/service-course-sl-70/

Those changes would bring you back 15-18mm and since the Smoothie ES has a slightly slower steering feeling, a shorter stem wouldnt make it too twitchy...it would actually cancel a bit of the slower steering and make it closer to what you currently have.

This is great information. Certainly appreciate the time you took to write it up. In that case, the regular Smoothie 52CM is too big for me. What about a 48CM? Only thing I would be worried about is the seat tube length being too short.

I never thought of a shorter handle bar reach. this is also great. Will check out the ES and update you later today. Appreciate it!

Lovely looking group set. thanks for the suggestion. Will take into consideration. I've always had Shimano, that's why I am leaning towards the new 105.

Everyone has Shimano. They own the OEM business. Pretty much the only opportunity to get campagnolo is to build your own bike. I built up a steel frame with Athena a few years ago because I wanted a silver groupset and now I doubt I'll ever go back to Shimano.

I have the concentration of a moth at work today, so why not focus on something that actually interests me- steel tubing and bike geometry!

The 48cm Smoothie has 12mm of less reach than your current bike, but it also has 17mm less stack. Basically, to get the bars on the Smoothe to be the same as your Roubaix, you would need more spacers. Not the most elegant look, but if its within the established safe limit(about 40mm of spacers or less), then so be it. There would be a good bit more saddle showing too on the 48cm frame.
I have no idea what your current setup looks like, so I certainly couldnt say one fits better than the other, but based on what you have said so far, it would see the 51cm ES would fit best since almost all the measurements are effectively the same as your current bike and you could get the bars 3/4" closer with just a stem and bar swap.

To compare to a similar frame(double butted heat treaded tubing that is 8/5/8 in butting), the Black Mountain Cycles road frame in size 54 with the Whiskey + fork is 564mm of stack and 372mm of reach. Compared to your Roubiax, the wheelbase is within 1cm of length, the trail is a very close 62mm(32mm tire) compared to 59mm for your bike(25mm tire), the chainstay is 1cm longer than your Roubaix, and you will sit 'in' the bike a very little bit more than 'on' the bike since the bottom bracket drop is 75mm.
The Black Mountain frame will have your bars up 18mm higher(you could just use 18mm less of spacers to even that out if you want) and the bars will be 7mm closer to you. when compared to your Roubaix So if you used the Whiskey short reach bars with that, it would be 15mm less reach compared to your Roubaix without even changing your stem. Steering would basically be the same as you currently have, since 3mm of trail difference is very minimal. And the ride feel would would be a little more smooth due to the 1cm longer chainstays.




So many options and subtle differences to consider, right?

I have a lot of seat post showing on my Roubaix. Your input makes a ton of sense. I would like to eliminate seat post but with the Black Mountain Frame at a 54cm, I think I’ll have no seat post showing given the seat tube length.

**nvm did a bad calculation on the mm difference**

Although, I would like to gave my bars a tad bit higher for a more comfortable position on longer rides. My lower back hurts after 20 miles on my current setup.

thanks again.

The Campy shifting is totally different from the others. The upshift and downshift levers are separate and make sense. The upper levels allow you to shift multiple gears with one swipe, up to 5 gears up and 3 down.

I have bikes with Athena, Chorus and one with Super Record. I will never buy anything other than Super Record again. Life is too short to by ****ty bikes.

Roadini's just went on pre-order for eight-hundred bucks. I haven't really been following the geometry discussion, but the roadini let's you really jack up the bars if that's what you're looking for.

My new custom Cicli Barco XCR custom with brushed stainless steel, a Barco Viva stainless fork with a carbon steering tube, Campy Super Record 12 sp. and WR Compositi carbon parts. HED Belgium wheels and White Industries T11 hubs and Vittoria Corsa Control tires. If you look closely you will note the Campy direct mount brakes, lighter and far more beautiful than discs, but better working than regular rim brakes.

Gianluca Barco (info@ciclibarco.it)is quite fluent in English and very responsive and helpful in the design, fitting, options and production. They have a huge number of choices and options in both TIG and lugged stainless steel with stainless forks and lugs of all types. He works carefully with you on measurements. He also got me a good price on many of the carbon and Campy parts.

My custom frame cost 3,320 Euros ( $3,600) including shipping. But, it has a lot of options like name plate, Italian shield, nickel head badge, direct mount brakes, multi-color paint, the Viva fork, the carbon steering tube and Chris King headset. The base price for a Barco custom XCr TIG welded frame with a curved stainless fork is 2,620 Euros ($2,900) including brushed or polished finish, one paint color, interior or exterior brake cables, and a number of other no-cost options. A stainless steel XCr lugged frame is 100 Euros more.

The bike weighs 18 lbs. 14 oz. with pedals for a size 58.5 frame. It rides very smoothly and feels alive. Also the production quality and paint is flawless. Cicli Barco won the "Best of Italy" and other awards last year at Bespoked, the British version of NAHBS. https://bespoked.cc/awards.html.

For an independent review of the Barco XCr frame look at this: https://www.cyclist.co.uk/reviews/66...rco-xcr-review

And, most importantly, Barco makes handmade steel frames for about 20 other Italian bike companies to put their own name on. The odds are extremely high that any brand name Italian steel frame is probably made by Barco, although not to the quality control levels of bikes with their own name on it. Of course, there is a huge mark up by the other bike company. The Cinelli XCr stainless frame is made by Barco but has none of the options and quality finish that mine has but it costs $4,800.

Just so you know, XCr refers to Columbus XCr stainless steel tubing. It is a relatively new product, only about 10 years old, that features very high-tech metallurgy and is triple butted. The tubes are almost paper thin but quite strong. It also happens to be the most expensive tube set in the world, currently over $800 just for the raw tubes.

Thanks for posting. Stunning bike! I may have to go the Barco route one day.

Actually there is only one custom steel bike builder unless you have one living within a mile of your home (surprisingly, many people do):

The is Waterford Precision. These are the people that built the Waterford Schwinn Paramount that was used by the old Schwinn factory racing team. After Schwinn dropped out, the team decided to make their own name bikes.

https://waterfordbikes.com These bikes are custom fitted and custom made for any and every demand from arabesque lugged touring models to spectacularly light TIG welded custom tubing road racing bikes that are at the UCI minimum weight with a set of DuraAce Di2 mounted and a good set of wheels.

I have seen many of these and am bowled over with their sheer quality and detail.