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Bought my carbon bike 18 years ago now, time for new? or how to refresh it?

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Bought my carbon bike 18 years ago now, time for new? or how to refresh it?

Old 07-08-20, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
More advice: check Youtube for Hambini and Durianrider. Foul-mouthed and often juvenile, but they fundamentally have their heads screwed-on straight. The legacy of Sheldon Brown and Jobst Brandt?
Sheldon Brown was a wealth of knowledge, and Jobst Brandt knew how to build a solid wheel, but Durianrider is a tool, and Hambini isn't exactly unbiased.
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Old 07-08-20, 02:12 PM
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That 1" to 1 1/8" conversion is pretty interesting! How would I tell for sure that mine is 1" (older, I guess?). What I gather is that if I don't do this, I'm stuck looking for vintage forks?

Would some disassembly of the headset + calipers measurement be needed?

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Old 07-08-20, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by supernova87a
That 1" to 1 1/8" conversion is pretty interesting! How would I tell for sure that mine is 1" (older, I guess?). What I gather is that if I don't do this, I'm stuck looking for vintage forks?

Would some disassembly of the headset + calipers measurement be needed?
Trek used 1" threaded steerers through 2000.

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Old 07-08-20, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup

Both of these statements are simply false

The credibility and depth of your argument here spurred me on to do some research. So I have some weights for Campagnolo Super Record here, including the battery and rotors. Note that the component manufactures sometimes 'miss' these in the weight tally for some inexplicable reason. Campy 160mm rotors and bolts are 274 grams. The battery and wiring combined is about 170 g.


So according to Campy, Super Record 12 EPS comes in at 2,255 grams. The disc gruppo is 2,505 g. Rim brake mechanical is 2,014 g.


These are pretty porky weights - Campagnolo Super Record 11 was less than 2kg.


These weights do not include the extra frame reinforcement and weight required by discs. Check the relative weights of rim and disc brake carbon forks - the disc brake forks, because they have to accept braking forces at the ends, have to be beefed up substantially.
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Old 07-08-20, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
The credibility and depth of your argument here spurred me on to do some research. So I have some weights for Campagnolo Super Record here, including the battery and rotors. Note that the component manufactures sometimes 'miss' these in the weight tally for some inexplicable reason. Campy 160mm rotors and bolts are 274 grams. The battery and wiring combined is about 170 g.


So according to Campy, Super Record 12 EPS comes in at 2,255 grams. The disc gruppo is 2,505 g. Rim brake mechanical is 2,014 g.


These are pretty porky weights - Campagnolo Super Record 11 was less than 2kg.


These weights do not include the extra frame reinforcement and weight required by discs. Check the relative weights of rim and disc brake carbon forks - the disc brake forks, because they have to accept braking forces at the ends, have to be beefed up substantially.
So Campagnolo is porky. Shimano 9000 Di2, is lighter than mechanical 9000.

I'm not trying to talk the OP into a new bike, but a 2021 trek Emonda with Ultegra Di2 and hydraulic disc brakes weighs 2 pounds less than his 5500.
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Old 07-08-20, 03:28 PM
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Having recently found my only roadie out of commission, I'm a big fan of having a backup bike. I'd rebuild this one with R7000 (for compatibility with 11-speed) and give it a thorough cleaning and rebuild/ regrease at the same time. Then also get a newer bike, again with 11-speed. Then you have N+1.
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Old 07-08-20, 03:29 PM
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thats a classic... before every bike started looking the same... now every bike seems to be ok with looking just like every other bike... and the bike is not festooned with branding.... i would not want to upgrade... i think it would be nice to perhaps get more relaxed gearing and ... wheel set... but i like box section rims so... im not even sure that a new wheel set is needed.
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Old 07-08-20, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup
So Campagnolo is porky. Shimano 9000 Di2, is lighter than mechanical 9000.

I'm not trying to talk the OP into a new bike, but a 2021 trek Emonda with Ultegra Di2 and hydraulic disc brakes weighs 2 pounds less than his 5500.
The 2020 Emonda with a decent mechanical group and rim brakes will be less than 15 pounds, or substantially lighter than the 2021 disc versions.

I know, because I recently 'came into some money', and I had $15k budgeted to treat myself to an Emonda. But the all local rim-brake versions are gone/unobtainable, plus the bizarro Trek seatmast and T86 bottom-bracket turned me off. Looks like a Kestrel or a Wilier is in my future.

More advice to the OP: don't get locked into transitory weird proprietary standards. The bike industry loves to spawn new 'standards' for no other reason so as to lock you into their service network and supply chains - for all time. Which in current bike industry terms, replacement parts are only available for a few years, and then on to the next shiny bauble. After that you'll be forced to grovel before your local dealer for a replacement bottom bracket or cassette. As heard in my local shop: "10-speeds are like 10 years old. We can't get replacement parts for this."

BSA bottom brackets are great.
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Old 07-08-20, 03:41 PM
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All you folks saying this is a classic bike, Have you ridden one? I’ll grant you the Trek OCLV frames have a place in bike history, in part because of Armstrong. They moved CF frames forward.

However, from a riding point of view, these bikes are not like classic steel or even now older titanium frames. I test road the OP’s model before I got my Merlin. It had a totally dead feeling, and an uncomfortable ride. For ride quality, it couldn’t hold a candle to a good 1990’s titanium frame, and it just pales in comparison to a modern CF frame. So if you want a piece of bike history, fine, but for a quality ride, your money can be much better spent elsewhere.
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Old 07-08-20, 03:46 PM
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I have a Calfee Tetra that I got back in 2004, so it's going on 16 years now?

I've changed the gearing and wheels on it twice now I think? It started life with 10-speed Campy and it's 11-speed Shimano now. I've had two professional bike fits during that time (well, the first one when I got it and another one seven or eight years ago). I was never particularly concerned with speed, watts, etc. -- I ride because it's fun and gives me A+ ratings from my doc during annual checkups, etc.

I keep hearing that new frames are lighter, stiffer, more comfortable, etc, but I sure weigh more than I did 16 years ago and I can still ride a century comfortably, so... why bother?

Basically, I subscribe to the theory that there is absolutely nothing wrong with your bike as pictured. The grease in various areas (bottom bracket, hubs...) is probably gone. A bike fit if you're sore -- guaranteed that you don't move the way you did 15, 20 years ago. Some new handlebar tape... I bet it feels like new.
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Old 07-08-20, 04:12 PM
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I think you could make a super cool resto-mod type build with that frame and modern components (groupset, wheels, finishing kit etc), but that could end up costing you as much as a new bike depending on how crazy you went, but it would certainly be unique. I think you have two options:

1. Go test ride a few new bikes (modern components, standards etc) and see if they get you excited to ride more. If they do, shop around more seriously for a new bike, if they don't blow you away or really make you want to get out and ride, then keep what you have.

2. Clean up and tune up your current ride, replace any items that are worn or in need of replacement (I would recommend the widest fastest rolling tires you can stuff into the frame) and then just ride it and see where you feel the bike is lacking or not meeting your needs or expectations. Then proceed to upgrade/modify to address those issues.
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Old 07-08-20, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by KevinF
I have a Calfee Tetra that I got back in 2004, so it's going on 16 years now?

I've changed the gearing and wheels on it twice now I think? It started life with 10-speed Campy and it's 11-speed Shimano now. I've had two professional bike fits during that time (well, the first one when I got it and another one seven or eight years ago). I was never particularly concerned with speed, watts, etc. -- I ride because it's fun and gives me A+ ratings from my doc during annual checkups, etc.

I keep hearing that new frames are lighter, stiffer, more comfortable, etc, but I sure weigh more than I did 16 years ago and I can still ride a century comfortably, so... why bother?

Basically, I subscribe to the theory that there is absolutely nothing wrong with your bike as pictured. The grease in various areas (bottom bracket, hubs...) is probably gone. A bike fit if you're sore -- guaranteed that you don't move the way you did 15, 20 years ago. Some new handlebar tape... I bet it feels like new.
Your Calfee is also six years newer, built using a different technique than the OPís Trek, and custom built by a guy who knows how to dial in a CF frame. Having ridden the OPís Trek model, and owning a Calfee, Iím pretty confident in my bet that your Calfee rides much better than an early Trek.

And as to the why bother point, the OPís bike is functional, and beyond basic maintenance, he doesnít need to bother. However, if heís going to throw money at upgrades, then thereís likely better ROI on a newer bike.
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Old 07-08-20, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup
Sheldon Brown was a wealth of knowledge, and Jobst Brandt knew how to build a solid wheel, but Durianrider is a tool, and Hambini isn't exactly unbiased.
https://road.cc/content/news/shockjo...rces-it-272869

Hambini is also a sexist turdstick, so there's that.
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Old 07-08-20, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
The 2020 Emonda with a decent mechanical group and rim brakes will be less than 15 pounds, or substantially lighter than the 2021 disc versions.
A 2021 SLR 9 is under 15 pounds with Dura-Ace Di2, hydraulic discs and the capability to run 28mm tires. Yes, rim brakes would be lighter by almost a pound, but braking performance would suffer.

As for the OP's bike, I'd probably leave it as is, and replace worn out components.

Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
And as to the why bother point, the OP’s bike is functional, and beyond basic maintenance, he doesn’t need to bother.
I concur.

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Old 07-08-20, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
The 2020 Emonda with a decent mechanical group and rim brakes will be less than 15 pounds, or substantially lighter than the 2021 disc versions.
My 2015 SLR with eTap and Zipp 303s is under 15# and that includes bottle cages, pedals and Garmin.
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Old 07-08-20, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by SSRI
A test ride on a modern Carbon rig will likely give you the nudge that is needed to get a new bike. (if your budget allows).
The ultimate question is how much do you want to spend. It will still be cheaper to upgrade you current ride to a modern 11 speed group.
A light set of wheels ($?? 200 - sky is the limit) will make the most difference. An one inch threadless fork ($? 75-150) set up will make you front end stiffer. An 11 speed group can be put together for under 500.00.
You can always sell off your old 9spd group and classic mavic lace ups to re-coup some cost.
Vintage ride are cool, but my Tarmac SL4 "feels" livelier then my Kestrel 200sci. You will have to ride one to see if it is worth it to you.
A $200 set of wheels is not going to be much of an improvement. Threadless fork means fork headset and stem, so for quality worth doing, more like $300 plus.
and the current group is Ultegra. So upgrading to the same level would be around $700. And these are internet prices assuming you do your own work. And my guess is the OP is talking about the LBS doing these things.

So $1000 for a wheel set that would make an arguable difference, $700 for a group set, and $300 for a fork conversion and your at $2000. Pay LBS prices and labor, likely over $3000.
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Old 07-08-20, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
A $200 set of wheels is not going to be much of an improvement. Threadless fork means fork headset and stem, so for quality worth doing, more like $300 plus.
and the current group is Ultegra. So upgrading to the same level would be around $700. And these are internet prices assuming you do your own work. And my guess is the OP is talking about the LBS doing these things.

So $1000 for a wheel set that would make an arguable difference, $700 for a group set, and $300 for a fork conversion and your at $2000. Pay LBS prices and labor, likely over $3000.
Huh. So, by the Theory Of Compensatory Cashflow*, he now has $3000 to spend on a new bike!

*"Compensatory Cashflow" works like this: if you ever considered, even for a moment, spending money on something, but then didn't, you now have that money to spend elsewhere! As in, "There's the $1000 we saved by not buying that new fridge. We can use that!" (I stole this idea from Calvin Trillin)
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Old 07-08-20, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by noOriginalNames
2. Clean up and tune up your current ride, replace any items that are worn or in need of replacement (I would recommend the widest fastest rolling tires you can stuff into the frame) and then just ride it and see where you feel the bike is lacking or not meeting your needs or expectations. Then proceed to upgrade/modify to address those issues.
+1 I'd definitely ditch the Gatorskins.

I might even replace the stem + ergo bars, with a quill stem and modern compact reach handlebars.
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Old 07-08-20, 04:53 PM
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I knew this would get bogged down in a turdfest of opinions.

1. Yes, I own a bike shop. I don't sell bikes though. I have made a name by not being the guy that tells everyone to get a new bike. I just fix what's broken.
2. If the OP goes and buys a new bike I don't get a freekin thing from it, and could care less.
3. Bikes at the mid to higher end don't generate crap for revenue in this industry so no...the only one trying to sell anyone on expensive new bikes is the OEM. The shop would be just as happy and actually turn a profit if they just sold you another $1500 bike.

Old bikes can be amazing and beautiful. Some can just be turd piles.

That carbon frame rides like crap. There are sooooo many better frames out today that you could buy from just about anyone. It was great at the time but it isn't worth really talking about.

9spd Shimano sucked. Bad. All over the place. If I had to place all of the decent Shimano road groups on a scale of good to bad the whole 9 speed generation would fall in second to last - last being occupied by that crappy first generation of Shimano turning the cables inside the levers. Using 9 speed levers is akin to turning 45 and making the mistake of trusting a fart. Worn out or well used 9 speed is just....no.

Quill stems and threaded fork is just as technologically irrelevant parts wise now as Dave is implying new BB standards will be in a few years. Last fork I had to clean up threads on I had to drive around the greater western Chicago burbs just to find a shop that still had some tools. They literally gave them to me.

Carbon layups don't have an infinite life. That frame has already lost a ton of what little good ride feel it actually had.

Wheel materials, tires, frame capacity, etc.

Seriously - sell this thing to one of the people on here that is nostalgic about this and then go buy something old that was actually really good in steel or ti. Put some modern components on it and really lose yourself in how much better it all really has gotten.

Honestly after having worked on almost nothing but the tech we had in the 80's, 90's and early '00s for the last 4 months as everyone has decided to go ride their bikes again has just driven home that the vast majority of it, even the decent stuff, has been so eclipsed.
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Old 07-08-20, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Huh. So, by the Theory Of Compensatory Cashflow*, he now has $3000 to spend on a new bike!

*"Compensatory Cashflow" works like this: if you ever considered, even for a moment, spending money on something, but then didn't, you now have that money to spend elsewhere! As in, "There's the $1000 we saved by not buying that new fridge. We can use that!" (I stole this idea from Calvin Trillin)
Not the point at all. My point is ride and enjoy what you have. But think hard about putting cash in a old, relatively poor riding frame, because you could end spending close to the cost of a nice new bike, and still have a comparitively poor riding bike.
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Old 07-08-20, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
Not the point at all. My point is ride and enjoy what you have. But think hard about putting cash in a old, relatively poor riding frame, because you could end spending close to the cost of a nice new bike, and still have a comparitively poor riding bike.
It's a joke. See my signature line.
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Old 07-08-20, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
It's a joke. See my signature line.
actually kinda realized that after I posted
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Old 07-08-20, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
actually kinda realized that after I posted
'SOkay. Of all the things to take seriously on this forum, I am not one.
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Old 07-08-20, 06:32 PM
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Thanks for all the comments! I remember why I loved visiting here in the first place.

I definitely will go to the LBS and look at test riding some new bikes anyway, along with asking them about some of the upgrades to mine.

I also did a bit of poking around locally. Maybe something like this? https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/bik...154747465.html or https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/bik...154658838.html
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Old 07-08-20, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by supernova87a
Thanks for all the comments! I remember why I loved visiting here in the first place.

I definitely will go to the LBS and look at test riding some new bikes anyway, along with asking them about some of the upgrades to mine.

I also did a bit of poking around locally. Maybe something like this? https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/bik...154747465.html or https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/bik...154658838.html
What size bike do you need? One of those is a 60cm, the other is a 56cm. There's no way that both of them fit you.

I would stop looking at bikes on CL, and go to a shop and figure out what fits.
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