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Question about pro sprinters

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Question about pro sprinters

Old 09-15-20, 10:20 AM
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cheesesandwich
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Question about pro sprinters

Why do they have problem on climbs? They put out alot of power during the sprints but struggles in the mountains. Someone like Caleb Ewans weight no heavier than other climbers, Others I would have thought its because of their body weight but the power that those legs can do should even things out.
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Old 09-15-20, 10:24 AM
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wrong forum. Belongs here: https://www.bikeforums.net/professional-cycling-fans/

short answer: explosive short bursts of power are physiologically different from long efforts at high power/weight.
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Old 09-15-20, 10:32 AM
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Different types of muscles.

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Old 09-15-20, 10:36 AM
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It's basically the same reason that Usain Bolt would never win a marathon.
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Old 09-15-20, 11:23 AM
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Pro sprinters are a lot faster than most amateur racers on the climbs. Maybe twice as fast as recreational club riders. However, if they are not going to contest the GC or KOM, they are not going to go all out on the climbs. They want to save their energy for the sprints.
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Old 09-15-20, 11:42 AM
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If they changed the rules and required that you complete the Tour to retain your sprint victories............................watch how those sprinters would magically sprout wings!

Cipollini would cash out on cue once it went to the mountains for example.
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Old 09-15-20, 11:43 AM
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Just out of idle curiosity, does anyone have a idea of what kind of wattage a pro sprinter is capable of generating?
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Old 09-15-20, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by bmcer View Post
Just out of idle curiosity, does anyone have a idea of what kind of wattage a pro sprinter is capable of generating?
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/r...blowing-359140
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Old 09-15-20, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by bmcer View Post
Just out of idle curiosity, does anyone have a idea of what kind of wattage a pro sprinter is capable of generating?
This might give something in the range.

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Old 09-15-20, 11:53 AM
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They aren't slow, especially not at the World Tour level. They're just not quite as fast as the fastest climbers in the world. If the climbers are riding at or beyond threshold, then of course those with lower sustained W/kg are going to blow their doors off if they tried to keep pace.

I believe it was Michael Woods (EF) who mentioned during TdF commentary he did on FloBikes how literally every World Tour rider are among the best in the world at riding in all conditions and are the best in the world at one type (sprinting, flats, breakaways, rolling, etc). He mentioned being at one-day races wheezing up a steep climb only to turn and see Andre Greipel spinning calmly, breathing out his nose.

I'm told (since I don't pay attention to this sort of thing) that many Strava climbing segment KOMs in my area are still owned by Tyler Farrar, a sprinter and the last American to win a stage at the TdF, even though he stopped syncing his rides years ago.
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Old 09-15-20, 12:06 PM
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That is in-freaking-credible. On a good day, I might get to half that for maybe 10 seconds.
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Old 09-15-20, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by surak View Post
They aren't slow, especially not at the World Tour level. They're just not quite as fast as the fastest climbers in the world. If the climbers are riding at or beyond threshold, then of course those with lower sustained W/kg are going to blow their doors off if they tried to keep pace.

I believe it was Michael Woods (EF) who mentioned during TdF commentary he did on FloBikes how literally every World Tour rider are among the best in the world at riding in all conditions and are the best in the world at one type (sprinting, flats, breakaways, rolling, etc). He mentioned being at one-day races wheezing up a steep climb only to turn and see Andre Greipel spinning calmly, breathing out his nose.

{snip}
That'a great image. Mainly because we've all been there and can relate, I guess.
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Old 09-15-20, 12:33 PM
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I don't mean to say they are slow. But at times they they have to work very hard to be in the time limit of the race. But the videos and sprinter vs marathoner make sense,
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Old 09-15-20, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by bmcer View Post
Just out of idle curiosity, does anyone have a idea of what kind of wattage a pro sprinter is capable of generating?
Same as good amateur sprinters.

Just at the end of absolutely mind-boggling hard races and lead-outs.
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Old 09-15-20, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by bmcer View Post
Just out of idle curiosity, does anyone have a idea of what kind of wattage a pro sprinter is capable of generating?
In the sprint itself around 2 kilowatts. This is why they can only hold it for seconds.
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Old 09-15-20, 12:44 PM
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[QUOTE=rubiksoval;21695620]Same as good amateur sprinters.

/QUOTE]

Is that right? The strongest guy I ride with regularly hits 1200 or 1300 watts on his sprints, but that's 5-10 seconds. He's a cat 3 on his way to cat 2, but that's a LONG way off from 1000+ watts for more than a minute. What are typical 1 minute watts for an amateur cat 1/2 crit sprint?
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Old 09-15-20, 12:48 PM
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I watched the power meter of a Cat 1 hitting 1600 watts coming out of a turn and accelerating up the straight. If he had a 10% calibration error that still put pro sprinters up to 2 kilowatts for a short period of time.
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Old 09-15-20, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Same as good amateur sprinters.
Is that right? The strongest guy I ride with regularly hits 1200 or 1300 watts on his sprints, but that's 5-10 seconds. He's a cat 3 on his way to cat 2, but that's a LONG way off from 1000+ watts for more than a minute. What are typical 1 minute watts for an amateur cat 1/2 crit sprint?
No one's doing 1000 watts for a minute in a sprint at the end of a race, but stuff like this:

hitting 1,480w on his way to his maiden Grand Tour victory at the 2018 Giro.
With average of 1070w over the 17-second sprint,


and this

average power of 1,100w for the 16-second sprint that concluded the stage, hitting a max of 1,310w
and this

The Colombian surged ahead of Sagan with a 1,200w effort for 22 seconds, hitting a maximum output of 1,440w.
are the type of sprint performances you can find even in cat 3/4 races (except for the 1200 for 22 seconds, that's tough) from the better sprinters.

The difference, as mentioned, is when and after what they occur.


Looking at one minute power of a cat 1/2 in a sprint doesn't really tell you anything unless it's a super long, drawn-out uphill sprint, as everyone is trying to draft and negotiate packs/corners/etc for most of that last minute.
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Old 09-15-20, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by RiceAWay View Post
I watched the power meter of a Cat 1 hitting 1600 watts coming out of a turn and accelerating up the straight. If he had a 10% calibration error that still put pro sprinters up to 2 kilowatts for a short period of time.
Hardly any pro sprinters are anywhere close to 2,000 watts at the end of the race. Griepel is probably the hugest and most powerful and is one of the only guys close to that.
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Old 09-15-20, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
No one's doing 1000 watts for a minute in a sprint at the end of a race, but stuff like this:
Yeah, thanks. I misread the article. Unfortunately, the article describes some averages "for his entire sprint" without specifying all the durations.
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Old 09-15-20, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
Yeah, thanks. I misread the article. Unfortunately, the article describes some averages "for his entire sprint" without specifying all the durations.
Probably ~15ish-20ish seconds, give or take a bit. Much more than 200 meters out and they're likely to get overtaken.
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Old 09-15-20, 04:50 PM
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At the same time, imagining say a 130 mile flat stage, what type of rider wins? Isn't answer who can sustain the most avg wattage over the longest period of time? So if sprinters do badly on climbing stages but better on flat stages, if the climbs were longer would the sprinters win?
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Old 09-15-20, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
At the same time, imagining say a 130 mile flat stage, what type of rider wins? Isn't answer who can sustain the most avg wattage over the longest period of time?
No.
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Old 09-15-20, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
At the same time, imagining say a 130 mile flat stage, what type of rider wins? Isn't answer who can sustain the most avg wattage over the longest period of time? So if sprinters do badly on climbing stages but better on flat stages, if the climbs were longer would the sprinters win?
The guy who wins a flat stage is often the one who sustains the least avg wattage, not the most.
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Old 09-15-20, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post
The guy who wins a flat stage is often the one who sustains the least avg wattage, not the most.
Hmm.. even though most everyone finishes with the same time.
And remembering the OP's premise that the climber and the sprinter weigh the same.
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