I crashed today making a sharp turn, so I was wondering if I'm missing something:

I was on a cement road and had to make a pretty sharp turn, but the road was slightly dusty and I was probably going too fast. As I started the turn I was tracking too wide and it didn't feel like I would be able to adjust the turn without sliding out; I drifted off the road into some dirt. As expected, that's when I went down.

How much further can you lean in after you feel like you can't lean in any more? Aside from paying closer attention to speed, is there something technical I can do to avoid this in the future?

bk (tool with a sore shoulder/chin)

Unless your tires skid you can lean more.
It's all just confidence and experience.

haha, sounds like Pereiro going wide on a turn during stage 12 of the Tour...

i really never 'test' my lean... when i lean hard for a turn, i approach a point where my mind instinctively wont allow myself to try to lean harder... i can picture it, but something just prevents me from actually doing it

especially when the conditions are less favorable (dusty)... i wont be able to bring myself to turn sharply...

the best way to take a turn is always to approach it wide, slow down BEFORE turning, and then head for the apex

from experience from a motorcycle
1. counter steer: push right go right etc
2. target fixation: if you are looking at that ditch you will probly end up in it. always focus on the furtherest point you can see on the turn. its quite noticable when you watch motogp.
that being said... im also having issues with my 20 mph+ turning lol

These are great points in terms of technique (I can really see the concept of Target Fixation at work in my 5yr old who just got off the training wheels). But you need to practice them and recalibrate your "Leanometer".

I'd recommend finding a wide open parking lot and practice cornering. Find an object, such as a lamp post and practice turning around it over and over. Push yourself more each time and become comfortable with the lean, countersteering etc. It's really a comfort level and knowing the maximum you can push yourself and your bike when it comes to cornering.

And if you're afraid of falling when cornering, go find a field and turn until you fall a couple times. It's a lot nicer then falling on asphalt and you'll get a better idea of what it feels like just before you're about to fall.

I'd also recommend reading up on a little high performance driving technique. How to identify the braking point, turn-in point, apex, and trackout line of a turn will help immensely. 3 seasons of autocross and a couple of track days translated directly to my cycling technique

Lean-o-meter.
Haven't heard that one before!

It's funny... you can probably follow a pack of riders through a turn at 30mph without trouble, but go through it on your own, and you can't push 24mph.

1. Pick your line and stick to it. Don't turn 3 or 4 times in each corner.

2. Once you visually scan the surface for debris, look beyond it.

3. Don't put a death grip on the bars. Let the bike breathe under you.

4. Inside pedal up. Always.

5. Practice practice practice.

Ironically, though most riders will ride Criteriums all summer, they won't work on their cornering ability because "it's too dangerous".

Counter steering and leaning more doens't do jack if you're tires aren't getting the grip they need from the road surface. Next please.

One thing to work on is picking your line through the turn. If you pick the right line, you won't need to lean as much. I know that's easy to say, and hard to explain how to do, but it's something to be mindful of. Avoid picking a line that forces you to do all your hard turning and corrections on the exit of the turn.

Edit: Sorry for repeating a previously posted answer. This is what happens when you click "reply" then go to the bathroom and finally remember to click "submit" a half hour later.

Make sure both you and the bike have the same lean, so your body remains in line with the bike. Beginners have a habit of sitting upright while tilting the bike under them, or flopping over while keeping the bike upright - both methods more intuitive, but less effective. Countersteering is the best way to get a good lean quickly.

Also, make sure you put your weight on the outboard pedal - really press on it. That puts your weight between the wheels, which distributes the force better. Keep your weight off the saddle. The saddle is further back, so leaving your weight on it increases the chance of the back wheel flying out. Pressing on the outboard pedal also keeps the inboard pedal up.

Turning hard on a slippery surface, like loose dirt or water, is pretty much a lost cause. Go straight through those parts, and resume your turn when you get back on firm ground. If that's not possible, prepare to fall.

If you practice in a parking lot, wear some tough old blue jeans so if you go down, you have some protection. I owe my worst road rash to an empty parking lot. Experiment with left turns first, so that if you do go down, you won't add a bent derailleur to your road rash - as I did.

I seem to recall a magazine article that recommended straightening the outside leg and putting more weight on it.

Ironically I used to practice mine in a Cemetery.

" Beginners have a habit of sitting upright while tilting the bike under them."

Exactly a technique used by lots of folks in crits when you have to tighten a turning radius. Weight the outside hand and straightened leg...you can easily adjust the bike angle.

"or flopping over while keeping the bike upright"

Also a technique used for pedalling through corners where you would otherwise bottom out...

There's no single answer as it depends on speed, turn radius, road surface, material, wet or dry pavement, etc... For a beginner, the most important thing is making the largest (safest that you can) arc through the turn, and relaxing while turning... being gripped because you're nervous or scared leads to too tight a grip on the bars, stiff upper body, non-responsive posture, and poor reflexes/ability to adjust to small changes. The best way to learn to corner is to corner...as always, see if you can find an experienced cyclist who is known to be a good descender to help you out with some pointer. Check out some of the Tour de France descents as well...textbook stuff.

The only real way to learn cornering is to go out and corner. I do have my second road rash from a corning accident in a parking lot, new asphalt and a 90 degree corner at over 25 MPH... slide city... and a bent deraileur bracket. I am not going to repeat what others have said but when you use the proper techniques you can fly around tight corners at 28+ MPH in the right conditions with little problem.

Like decending... just go do it...

zsheesh I had an interesting near accident the other night...

I was making a right turn onto a side-street and there was water in the little valley running parallel to the main street and crossing the street I was turning onto. The traffic from the side street had splashed the first 6 feet or so of the side street with this water and that area was extra slippery.

I wasn't expecting this and made my right turn just as fast as I normally would have, leaning hard into it, and as I turned, both wheels began to slide out from under me! If I wasn't giving that turn my full attention I'm sure I would have gone down, and into the lane of opposing traffic from the side-street. I'm going to be extra careful around water now!

Just pay attention, and pick your turning strength for the conditions.

Oh, make no mistake....

You also need to practice your cornering skills on WET PAVEMENT.
Unless you want to be one of those riders who always runs back to the car when it rains at a crit.

On second thought, take that approach...especially all of you Midwesterners.

If you have to practice, do it the nascar way, that way, you don't risk screwing up your drive train that much.

Leave the entry to the turn as late as possible.

Check this guy out: he's clipped in (old-school style) and doesn't seem too worried. And he's almost at a 45 degree angle.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/

My own experience riding BMX (lots of hard turns on less than ideal surfaces), motorcycles, racing autos, and riding my road bike: make the turn as wide an arc as you can, and make it a constant arc, like a portion of a circle. That will allow the highest speed through any given turn. The point made above about focusing on the farthest point throuh the turn is very useful.

Also, if your back end starts to wash out, you can countersteer and save yourself from going down, but it's a very quick and delicate movement. If your front end starts to wash out, the only thing you can do is try to get more vertical and ride a wider line out of the turn, although this is sometimes impossible due to the suddenness of front end washout.

But I guess none of this really has any meaning until you've experienced it.

dude, why do you bother?

with 1/100th the effort it took for you to bang out this post, you could have just hit "back" and moved on.

your badass attitude on the boards must make everyone think you're really cool
bk

yeah i haven't done anything like this. It will definetly help. I think I was just going too fast for the conditions, because i'm pretty comfortable with "theory."

I definitely need more experience too, since my lean-ometer doesn't seem very responsive.

thanks all,
bk

What I've noticed is that if your tires are going to give it's from making a correction, because if you have to change your line halfway through there's a moment where you are cornering far more than everywhere else, people seem to slip at exactly this point. So if you look far enough uproad and enter at a reasonable speed and don't change your line you should be able to go right through without any trouble. Maintain a constant turn being the key.

The other one I've seen people do is try to bleed off a lot of speed while in the turn. If you're going to break don't break a lot, this chap locked up his rear wheel, which let it slide out from under him, he corrected by straightening up, and taking less of a curve, would have worked if he were further around the corner and there wasn't another rider and a curb where he went. Ouch.