What the hell is with SUVs?
07-20-05 | 10:39 AM
#52
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Hate to say it, but there's something much more cultural going on here. After riding a great deal in other countries, IMH experience, US drivers are by far and away the most senselessly agressive toward bicycles, SUV or not. Imagine how much worse it would be if Lance were not in the public conscience more these days. It'd be great if he did a public service commercial for everyone.
07-20-05 | 10:48 AM
#53
Gotta add a big "Amen!" about the pickup trucks. Around here it's not just airhead housewives on car phones weaving their Suburbans through traffic at excessive speeds trying to get to their nail appointments. We also get the bozo-rednecks in their giant dualie pickups, with their wrap-around shades, talking into their Nextels.
God save me from Ram pickups.
God save me from Ram pickups.
07-20-05 | 10:49 AM
#54
Toughen the pluck up!
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From: So Fla
Bikes: 1990 KHS Sled; 2004 Specialized Sirrus Pro; 2005 Cannondale Saeco Replica
While I can understand why some people need SUV's in places where they have lots of snow or live on unpaved roads, and we should not generalize, here in the land of sunshine (SoFla) we actually have the highest percentage of SUV's anywhere. The generalizations are largely true although there are a fair number of bikers who have 'em so they can transport their bikes.
I ride a motorcycle and bike alot and am very sensitive about vehicles and have developed response criteria to other vehicles in my impact zone. First, there is no doubt that around these parts at least SUV drivers feel that somehow size - or perhaps the lack of it - means that you have rights on the road no one else has. In my experience a woman talking on a cell phone in a SUV is the biggest red alert. Second level red alert are young women in general talking on a phone especially those in BMW's. Third level are Mercedes drivers but that's probably 'cause one almost flattened me yesterday.
I ride a motorcycle and bike alot and am very sensitive about vehicles and have developed response criteria to other vehicles in my impact zone. First, there is no doubt that around these parts at least SUV drivers feel that somehow size - or perhaps the lack of it - means that you have rights on the road no one else has. In my experience a woman talking on a cell phone in a SUV is the biggest red alert. Second level red alert are young women in general talking on a phone especially those in BMW's. Third level are Mercedes drivers but that's probably 'cause one almost flattened me yesterday.
07-20-05 | 10:50 AM
#55
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From: Sacramento, California, USA
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50 plus posts and no Canyonero reference? Allow me then:
Canyonero
Can you name the truck with four wheel drive,
Smells like a steak, and seats thirty five?
Canyonero! Canyonero!
Well, it goes real slow with the hammer down
It's the country-fried truck endorsed by a clown
Canyonero! Canyonero!
Hey, hey!
Twelve yards long, two lanes wide,
Sixty five tons of American pride!
Canyonero! Canyonero!
Top of the line in utility sports,
Unexplained fires are a matter for the courts!
Canyonero! Canyonero!
She blinds everybody with her super high beams
She's a squirrel-squashin', deer-smackin' drivin' machine
Canyonero! Canyonero! Canyonero!
Whoa, Canyonero! Whoa!
Originally Posted by The Simpsons
Canyonero
Can you name the truck with four wheel drive,
Smells like a steak, and seats thirty five?
Canyonero! Canyonero!
Well, it goes real slow with the hammer down
It's the country-fried truck endorsed by a clown
Canyonero! Canyonero!
Hey, hey!
Twelve yards long, two lanes wide,
Sixty five tons of American pride!
Canyonero! Canyonero!
Top of the line in utility sports,
Unexplained fires are a matter for the courts!
Canyonero! Canyonero!
She blinds everybody with her super high beams
She's a squirrel-squashin', deer-smackin' drivin' machine
Canyonero! Canyonero! Canyonero!
Whoa, Canyonero! Whoa!
07-20-05 | 10:57 AM
#56
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I find for the most part that as a cyclist, riding my bike like I'm driving my car, saves me a lot of grief and crap from motorists. There will always be a**holes. However playing the Devil's Advocate I can see why from a motorists and cyclists point of view why drivers get angry with cyclists.
For example I had some guy on his bike pass me while rolling through at every stop sign, creeping through every red light, and in general just riding like a tool. These infractions were not done "by accident", they were done on purpose and without care. While I waited until the light was green or I had right of way only to pass this fool again. Then there was a guy who was trying to tell me to be more aggressive on my bike as he passed a car turning right on the right. Real smart.
All this was done in the presence of motorists whom I was sharing the road with just sat there and watched like I did. I bet I was thinking the same thing they were. "Fracking sh*thead is going to get himself killed one day riding a bike like that!"
As far as I'm concerned it works both ways. Aggressive, penis evny, sh*tforbrains drivers need to smarten up no matter what they drive. "I belong here so p*ss off" Cyclists on the otherhand, across the board, need to behave better on the roads as well.
For example I had some guy on his bike pass me while rolling through at every stop sign, creeping through every red light, and in general just riding like a tool. These infractions were not done "by accident", they were done on purpose and without care. While I waited until the light was green or I had right of way only to pass this fool again. Then there was a guy who was trying to tell me to be more aggressive on my bike as he passed a car turning right on the right. Real smart.
All this was done in the presence of motorists whom I was sharing the road with just sat there and watched like I did. I bet I was thinking the same thing they were. "Fracking sh*thead is going to get himself killed one day riding a bike like that!"
As far as I'm concerned it works both ways. Aggressive, penis evny, sh*tforbrains drivers need to smarten up no matter what they drive. "I belong here so p*ss off" Cyclists on the otherhand, across the board, need to behave better on the roads as well.
__________________
"No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs. We should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed, and love of power." -P.J. O'Rourke
"No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs. We should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed, and love of power." -P.J. O'Rourke
07-20-05 | 11:02 AM
#57
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Originally Posted by wannaride
While I can understand why some people need SUV's in places where they have lots of snow or live on unpaved roads,
...although there are a fair number of bikers who have 'em so they can transport their bikes.
...although there are a fair number of bikers who have 'em so they can transport their bikes.
I can put a fully assembled (front wheel on) bike in the rear of my Toyota Prius as easily as in the rear of my Ford Explorer. I can put two bikes with wheels removed in the the rear of my Prius and find it better to take the wheels of the bikes if I put two in the rear of the Explorer so they don't get tangled together.
Al
07-20-05 | 11:05 AM
#58
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Originally Posted by jimx200
Oh, what a timely post: last week a guy driving his suv, tried to push me into parked cars. So close, after passing me, he almost hit cars parked ahead. I caught him at the light and said "do you realize you almost hit me"? He said "too bad a**hole", spit, and sped off. I again caught this buttwipe at the next light, reached in, grabbed this dickhead by the throat and told him to get out and he and I were going to have a little come to Jesus meeting. Bastard than turns his wheels to drive me into curb, and then drove off screaming on his cell phone to police that he had been assaulted. He followed me for 3-4 miles and trying to get a cop to come. I waited 3 times and when I would ride to him, off he goes. I wish the cops would have arrived, I would have pressed charges. My gf said to just ignore and ride away..sorry, no turning the other cheek for me...too much Irish blood. I keep looking for this guy, I really want to nail his fat suv attitude with a big right. Sorry for the rant, but this guy still makes me white hot.
07-20-05 | 11:06 AM
#59
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A lot of blanket stereotypes in this thread. I currently drive a 2 door sports coupe and plan on buying a SUV in a couple of years. My driving record is perfect now, and it will be 10 years from now when I drive a SUV.
Why do I want a SUV? More space, more capacity(dog, bikes, etc).
Why do I want a SUV? More space, more capacity(dog, bikes, etc).
07-20-05 | 11:13 AM
#60
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Originally Posted by CardiacKid
Could it be you get yelled at, etc more often because you ride in the gutter to pass people at stoplights that have just spent 10 minutes going 20 mph below the speed limit to pass you. Yeah I know it is legal, but that doesn't make it right. Ie, it is legal for that SUV to pull all the way over to the right to keep you from passing, but it pi$$es you off.
07-20-05 | 11:15 AM
#61
genec
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Originally Posted by As You Like It
I truly belive that a lot of SUV drivers have absolutely no concept of how very much space their car/truck monsters take up.
Most SUV drivers only drove regular cars up until they had an SUV. They never had to drive a pickup for towing or a minivan for kid hauling. They never drove a real Jeep offroad. Very likely they never even had to drive a 1970s sedan, from when advertising copy touted how much larger the current year's model was from the previous. Suddenly, they're 35 with three kids and feel that they are not nearly dorky enough to pop for that Volvo, so they get the Ford Explorer instead. Then they have to learn a brand new style of driving, because their new, huge vehicle is taller, longer, and wider than what they're used to, and is an entirely different beast from the sedan or station wagon they really ought to be driving.
A lot of people seriously mis-judge their placement when they drive a tall vehicle, many people don't understand how much more space a big, heavy vehicle needs for stopping, and most people don't have any clue as to how clumsily SUVs handle, especially at speed.
I agree that there are a lot of "Raaaar, I own the road" jerks out there, but I think there are probably a lot more SUV drivers who are just not very good drivers anyhow, who think it is cool to drive a BIGA$$ TRUCK, when it really is way too much vehicle for them.
When I was finishing up at college, I was in the midst of moving from my first apartment, and my dad let me drive his 1979 International Scout for a weekend, because I could pack way more into it than I could my 1959 VW Beetle. It just about scared me to death driving that behemoth of a Scout (which was a precurser to today's SUVS). I had a crazy difficult time telling how much of a lane of highway I was taking up--it felt like the truck filled up the whole road. Left front corner looked like it was hanging over the center lane, right front looked like it was about to drop off the road. I drove that thing like a timorous granny because I could hardly judge where I was with it, and I really didn't want to end up having or causing a wreck.
I think maybe a lot of novice SUV drivers experience this, but instead of being freaked out by it, like I was, they think it feels pretty tough and hardcore, like being a tank driver or something. It still boils down to driving something they can't really handle, and probably being more enthusiastic about it than they really ought to be.
Most SUV drivers only drove regular cars up until they had an SUV. They never had to drive a pickup for towing or a minivan for kid hauling. They never drove a real Jeep offroad. Very likely they never even had to drive a 1970s sedan, from when advertising copy touted how much larger the current year's model was from the previous. Suddenly, they're 35 with three kids and feel that they are not nearly dorky enough to pop for that Volvo, so they get the Ford Explorer instead. Then they have to learn a brand new style of driving, because their new, huge vehicle is taller, longer, and wider than what they're used to, and is an entirely different beast from the sedan or station wagon they really ought to be driving.
A lot of people seriously mis-judge their placement when they drive a tall vehicle, many people don't understand how much more space a big, heavy vehicle needs for stopping, and most people don't have any clue as to how clumsily SUVs handle, especially at speed.
I agree that there are a lot of "Raaaar, I own the road" jerks out there, but I think there are probably a lot more SUV drivers who are just not very good drivers anyhow, who think it is cool to drive a BIGA$$ TRUCK, when it really is way too much vehicle for them.
When I was finishing up at college, I was in the midst of moving from my first apartment, and my dad let me drive his 1979 International Scout for a weekend, because I could pack way more into it than I could my 1959 VW Beetle. It just about scared me to death driving that behemoth of a Scout (which was a precurser to today's SUVS). I had a crazy difficult time telling how much of a lane of highway I was taking up--it felt like the truck filled up the whole road. Left front corner looked like it was hanging over the center lane, right front looked like it was about to drop off the road. I drove that thing like a timorous granny because I could hardly judge where I was with it, and I really didn't want to end up having or causing a wreck.
I think maybe a lot of novice SUV drivers experience this, but instead of being freaked out by it, like I was, they think it feels pretty tough and hardcore, like being a tank driver or something. It still boils down to driving something they can't really handle, and probably being more enthusiastic about it than they really ought to be.
I think this is hitting the nail on the head... along with females not really knowing where their vehicle "edges" are in the first place... put a giant SUV in their hands and they think they see more road, but have no concept of the actual space they "command."
07-20-05 | 11:19 AM
#62
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Alot of people are getting confused because we are talkng about a group of people and not all people in the group are like this. I know you have to carful with these types of statements. It's one of the same logic mistakes that racists use. But one should not be blind to trends and one should try to analyze their cause. The golden rule for not taking it too far is that you should try to see the big picture but at the same time judge each person individually.
07-20-05 | 11:32 AM
#64
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Originally Posted by shimanopower
Alot of people are getting confused because we are talkng about a group of people and not all people in the group are like this. ....
but at the same time judge each person individually.
but at the same time judge each person individually.
Vehicle choice in a given enviroment tells a lot about personality. For example young (and older) males driving jacked up pickups in urban areas have not chosen this vehicle because they want to be safe and safe to others. It is clearly about image, specifically the image of being the tough alpha male who is not going to let anyone get in their way.
Everyone has the choice if to use a cell phone while driving.
Age is a good predictor of driving skill/accident rate - the insurance companies use this to set rates. A young driver on a cell phone is a good predictor of someone who is not fully aware of surrounds or best prepared to react to a rapid changing situation and doesn't have the experience to know these things happen.
Yes all the above are in many ways sterotypes and not eveyone in these age groups, who makes these vehicle choices fits, but if you want to make predictions of behaviors, these are good starting points.
Al
07-20-05 | 11:32 AM
#65
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Originally Posted by jlin453
Why do I want a SUV? More space, more capacity(dog, bikes, etc).
1. They have not much usable room due to the high floors
2. They are trucks, which means they are built to lower safety standards that passenger cars, parents who place kids in these unstoppable and flippable second-rate quality vehicles are irresponsible.
3. They are the highest profit vehicles made in US, for reason #2.
4. Despite the commercials, they have typical passenger car suspensions and are not warrantied for off-road.
5. They are the most common vehicles seen in ditches after snowstorms up here.
6. You are 2.5X more likely to get into an accident with an SUV, hence the high insurance.
7. For all reasons above, they are a hazard to all other drivers on the road.
8. They make parking impossible, for the owners, and the others around them.
I'm always surprised to a cyclist proud of owning an object that is about cheap fashion, consumption, pollution and everything cycling does not stand for. Gas prices will NOT affect SUV sales, these people would rather feed their kids dogfood than lose their perceived road status. At 2X gas prices in Canada, we have thousands of suburban rednecks who cannot afford these vehicles commuting hours to work (the 10% generation). We now have the poorest air in North America in southern Ontario.
You know what an SUV is good for? Driving kids to the Asthma doctor.
A psych student here wrote a great paper about her precise observations in the large university employee parking lot: the lower the education level and job status, the larger the vehicle driven.
07-20-05 | 11:47 AM
#66
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Originally Posted by puddin' legs
"Why do I want a SUV? More space, more capacity(dog, bikes, etc)."
Sorry to disaggree, but station wagons have much more interior space than most SUVS, get better mileage, have room for bikes, etc....
Sorry to disaggree, but station wagons have much more interior space than most SUVS, get better mileage, have room for bikes, etc....
I honestly can't name any though maybe Subaru makes one. I personally like vehicles the size of the Rav4/ Trail Blazer. Nice compact, great mileage, both come from reliable companies, great resale value
07-20-05 | 12:02 PM
#67
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Anecdotal evidence; draw your own conclusions:
My folks own a place up in Tahoe City. You know what is by far the most popular car among the year-round residents up there?
The Subaru Outback station wagon. Probably followed by older model 4x4s like K5 Blazers and such. And Audi sedans and wagons.
If you see someone in Tahoe driving a Chevy Tahoe, chances are it's a tourist from the Bay Area.
My folks own a place up in Tahoe City. You know what is by far the most popular car among the year-round residents up there?
The Subaru Outback station wagon. Probably followed by older model 4x4s like K5 Blazers and such. And Audi sedans and wagons.
If you see someone in Tahoe driving a Chevy Tahoe, chances are it's a tourist from the Bay Area.
07-20-05 | 12:12 PM
#69
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Originally Posted by TexasGuy
How many good looking station wagons are there though I honestly can't name any though maybe Subaru makes one. I personally like vehicles the size of the Rav4/ Trail Blazer. Nice compact, great mileage, both come from reliable companies, great resale value
I honestly can't name any though maybe Subaru makes one. I personally like vehicles the size of the Rav4/ Trail Blazer. Nice compact, great mileage, both come from reliable companies, great resale valueAnd:
Originally Posted by DocRay
SUVs are about fashion and visible consumption, don't BS us, if you are buying a SUV, you are like the typical owner: ignorant, self-centered consumer with little regard for the world or even your community:
07-20-05 | 12:13 PM
#70
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Originally Posted by TexasGuy
How many good looking station wagons are there though I honestly can't name any though maybe Subaru makes one. I personally like vehicles the size of the Rav4/ Trail Blazer. Nice compact, great mileage, both come from reliable companies, great resale value
I honestly can't name any though maybe Subaru makes one. I personally like vehicles the size of the Rav4/ Trail Blazer. Nice compact, great mileage, both come from reliable companies, great resale valueWill I run out and buy one? Probably not.
__________________
"No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs. We should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed, and love of power." -P.J. O'Rourke
"No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs. We should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed, and love of power." -P.J. O'Rourke
07-20-05 | 12:18 PM
#71
That darn Yankee
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Hahaha Dodge
*falls over laughing*
Has he seen a Rav? or a Sequoia? or the Blazer and relatives?
or what about my Dad who has driven nearly 1 million miles and has never once gotten a speeding ticket and owns a Tahoe and a Rav4. I mean seriously, that's even worse then all the "all SUVs are evil" people
*falls over laughing*
Originally Posted by DocRay
SUVs are about fashion and visible consumption, don't BS us, if you are buying a SUV, you are like the typical owner: ignorant, self-centered consumer with little regard for the world or even your community:
or what about my Dad who has driven nearly 1 million miles and has never once gotten a speeding ticket and owns a Tahoe and a Rav4. I mean seriously, that's even worse then all the "all SUVs are evil" people
07-20-05 | 12:21 PM
#73
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Originally Posted by TexasGuy
Hahaha Dodge
*falls over laughing*
*falls over laughing*
__________________
"No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs. We should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed, and love of power." -P.J. O'Rourke
"No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs. We should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed, and love of power." -P.J. O'Rourke
07-20-05 | 12:53 PM
#74
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Saab, Audi, VW, Volvo.... Aside from Subaru, Honda and Toyota do a whole lines of great 4WD wagons (small, medium, large) that aren't imported into the US. Too bad, they're amazing cars and all are more comfortable to sleep in and store more gear than most SUVs. When gas hits $3.50, Detroit will yet again be scrambling for product behind the ever rolling 8 ball of human progress while whining about unfair trade, rules, labor, etc...even while owning large shares in their "competitors".
07-20-05 | 12:56 PM
#75
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And what is this talk about "why some people NEED SUV's"
Who NEEDS a XXX hp Viper? Who NEEDS a XXX hp Corvette? Who NEEDS to buy a 4x4 when they never go off roading?
Really, who are we to criticize others for their choice of vehicles? And GAS? If you're going to become a tree hugger, go yell at everyone to buy hybrid cars.
Who NEEDS a XXX hp Viper? Who NEEDS a XXX hp Corvette? Who NEEDS to buy a 4x4 when they never go off roading?
Really, who are we to criticize others for their choice of vehicles? And GAS? If you're going to become a tree hugger, go yell at everyone to buy hybrid cars.